Is Quran the word of God ?!

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mms20102
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Is Quran the word of God ?!

Post #1

Post by mms20102 »

Many guys reached to point they need to debate the existence of Quran as a true revelation .


I giving a chance for everybody to do his best in criticizing Quran and I Hope he or she read enough about it

Good Luck :D

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marco
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Post #31

Post by marco »

paarsurrey1 wrote:
Not difficult to know. Attributes of One-True-God mentioned in Quran that one has read in Quran are illustrated in Quran itself*
Yes, this is the same as saying: How do you know Muhammad heard God? Because Muhammad said so. The Koran is a mixture of things Muhammad remembered, with the addition of placing HIMSELF as the most important prophet. So if Muhamamd says God is fifteen feet tall, we would expect to see this in Muhammad's book. Is this what is called proof?

manofIslam

Post #32

Post by manofIslam »

Yes; Our Holy Qur'an is definitely the Word of Allah (God) (SWT)!

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Post #33

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to post 30 by marco]

Can you see electrons? and the answer is no

How can you believe there are Electrons? science says so

same logic

Can you see God? no

How can you know God sent the Quran? prophet Muhammed says so

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Post #34

Post by marco »

mms20102 wrote: [Replying to post 30 by marco]

Can you see electrons? and the answer is no

How can you believe there are Electrons? science says so

same logic

Can you see God? no

How can you know God sent the Quran? prophet Muhammed says so

I think you have destroyed your own argument. Science is an abstract noun and it says nothing. You mean that we accept certain concepts because when stated we can test their truth. When Einstein stated his incredible theory it was not accepted on his word. In fact scientists opposed it. When his findings explained the eccentric orbit of Mercury then people started to listen. Other things fell into place and, indirectly, people were able to harness atomic power.

Muhammad was a 7th century illiterate adventurer who heard tales from Jews and Christians and his book is a mish-mash of what he imperfectly recalled, with appropriate adjustments made for an Arab scenario, such as Jesus being born under a palm tree not in a stable. If Muhammad, who was particularly good at raiding caravans, is the 7th century answer to Einstein then I think we can start buying camels.

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Post #35

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to post 33 by marco]
I think we can start buying camels.
You better start now because if you think that
7th century illiterate adventurer
Can have a verse that describes in detail how baby is formed "logically possible" then you have destroyed your own logic

Quran 23:12-15

And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.(note not from clay which proves the accuracy of the description)

Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators.Then indeed, after that you are to die. ( note clot can also means leech which is having the same shape of the embryo and can't be known without opening all wombs to see the stage week by week)

Scientists have spoken about it in the following videos and comments




“Summary: The Quran describes not only the development of external form, but emphasizes also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasizing major events recognized by contemporary science.�
Dr. E. Marshall Johnson is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Developmental Biology at Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.

Then how he could have such a perfect and precise description?
heard tales from Jews and Christians and his book is a mish-mash
If it was a mish-mash his tribes would oppose it and reveal that it's not from god. putting into consideration that Quran challenged The best speakers of Arabs at the time of Muhammed to create a chapter like it and they couldn't.
Al-Walid ibn al Mughera was a non-muslim who happened to hear Quran the full text in Arabic is as follows.

The conclusion" After he heard the Quran he said its not the word of human nor Jin and its sweet, charming, deep, fruitful and it tops every thing and nothing can topple it. then he spoke to his people and said" You claim he is a poet have you seen him saying poem ever?. They replied "no". He asked "You claim he is a liar, have you ever seen him lie?". They replied "no". He asked " You claim he is a priest, have you ever seen him becoming one or acting like one?. They replied ''no". Then they asked " Then what he is ?" . He kept thinking and replied " He is a magician".

They knew it was not words of the priests of the Jews nor the Christians. Or else they could recognize it easily
what he imperfectly recalled, with appropriate adjustments made for an Arab scenario, such as Jesus being born under a palm tree not in a stable
Do you have a certain story about where was Jesus born ? If yes then I hope you provide me.
Muhammad, who was particularly good at raiding caravans, is the 7th century answer to Einstein then I think we can start buying camels.
I recommend this book as a start.

The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History.
Michael H. Hart

then you might read

TOLSTOY The Treatise of Famous Russian Writer about the Messenger of Islam MUHAMMAD (PBUH) HIDDEN BOOK

And I can bring many many more that can reply to all your claims because they don't take debating as a challenge or promote answered questions to test the public, but as a method to find the truth.

I would like to add

comparing Einstein to prophet Muhammed is like comparing how fast a horse can run to how long the fish can stay under water

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Post #36

Post by marco »

mms20102 wrote:

Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators.Then indeed, after that you are to die. ( note clot can also means leech which is having the same shape of the embryo and can't be known without opening all wombs to see the stage week by week)
The language is primitive, the sort Muhammad would be familiar with, and learned interpretation can make of it anything we want. The same applies to the Genesis story of creation; attempts have been mad to show how scientifically accurate it might be. The cleverness is in man's insertions of miracle into simple passages.

If it was a mish-mash his tribes would oppose it and reveal that it's not from god.
The Koran is an extraction from Judaism and Christianity, adjusted for an Arabic setting. It is that setting that made it attractive but I suppose Muhammad's skill in attacking caravans made him even more attractive. He was a great leader - there is no doubt of that. If heaven is in the business of producing warriors, then we might as well worship Mars. Muhammad's promise of sexuality in paradise shows he had more idea of drawing tough warriors than did Christ, who attracted the lame, the hungry, the poor the disinherited. If one believes hard enough one will throw away one's life for God - a good example is the Japanese kamikaze pilots.

comparing Einstein to prophet Muhammed is like comparing how fast a horse can run to how long the fish can stay under water[
I agree. It was you who weighed Science against Muhammad's teaching. I was illustrating the inadequacy of the comparison. Science is about proof; religion, Islam or Christian, is about faith.

There are Christians whose faith is as powerful and unassailable as your own. It is an odd human characteristic that when we accept something without proof and associate it with God then we can die for our belief, a belief installed in us by other humans. As long as people worship peacefully it is harmless; when they want to convert others forcibly or die for their God then it becomes a problem.

I am told the Koran is written in fine Arabic. I don't see that this feature makes it a heavenly document. It would be wonderful if proof of heaven were so easily found. The world is filled with beautiful literature.

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Post #37

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to post 35 by marco]
The language is primitive, the sort Muhammad would be familiar with, and learned interpretation can make of it anything we want. The same applies to the Genesis story of creation; attempts have been mad to show how scientifically accurate it might be. The cleverness is in man's insertions of miracle into simple passages.

I will get back to the main claim I told earlier. Quran challenged the best Arabic speakers to make something like it, but they couldn't. how can illiterate man (a fact you agree to) be able to produce such text?

The Koran is an extraction from Judaism and Christianity, adjusted for an Arabic setting. It is that setting that made it attractive
You surely said that since the teachings sent to all messengers were identical, and only humans altered it and that's why the necessity for a new messenger was required. But for sure Quran is neither an extract of Christianity nor Judaism. Unless you know better than his enemies and lived at the same era.
suppose Muhammad's skill in attacking caravans made him even more attractive. He was a great leader - there is no doubt of that. If heaven is in the business of producing warriors, then we might as well worship Mars. Muhammad's promise of sexuality in paradise shows he had more idea of drawing tough warriors than did Christ, who attracted the lame, the hungry, the poor the disinherited. If one believes hard enough one will throw away one's life for God - a good example is the Japanese kamikaze pilots.
I would surely reply this if the post was about the life of prophet Muhammed but i guess its irrelevant to support any point about Quran
I agree. It was you who weighed Science against Muhammad's teaching. I was illustrating the inadequacy of the comparison. Science is about proof; religion, Islam or Christian, is about faith.
without proof and associate it with God then we can die for our belief, a belief installed in us by other humans.
I guess you misinterpreted my words. I meant earlier when you need to find information about science, you believe it only because scientists said it, not because you can see and feel it. Going back to the Quran, we don't need to prove that it's holy, If we can apply the criteria of weather Muhammad is a prophet or not. If we can prove Muhammed's reliability, we won't need to prove whether the Quran came from god. Even the Quran didn't say believe because I said so. Quran kept challenging everyone with proof after another and kept challenging the mind of humans and asked us to learn not to move brainwashed.

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