Matthew S - Islam in General

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Matthew S Islam
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Matthew S - Islam in General

Post #1

Post by Matthew S Islam »

Assalamu alaykum - Greetings to everyone

Didn't want to derail the thread in the Christian forum so I decided to create a general thread in this section.

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Post #11

Post by marco »

Matthew S wrote:
The Jewish religion is now outdated and fundamentally flawed because it rejected the Messiah; and at this point, all of they're pre-planning and remaining patient for is the Dajjal (False Messiah), who will fulfill their political objectives in this life for some time, and then lead them to the Hell Fire for all of eternity (Excuse me if it is hostile, but it is the reality of our beliefs).

We believe that Jesus will be the one who kills the false Messiah. He will do so by looking into his eyes and causing him to burn and melt. Following this, Jesus will slay him with a sword as a way of reassuring the Muslims that the "Greatest Tribulation (Fitna)" has come to an end.

Judaism also rejected what Muhammad found wrong - the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus. Muslims have taken Muhammad's distorted view - probably got from a Nestorian priest - and made this mainline thinking, of sorts. So if Islam is founded on the idea that Jesus was someone prophetic, then Islam is no better than Christianity and Judaism, from which it is derived. Obviously it was ingenious of Muhammad to proclaim himself the final prophet.

As to the sword-carrying Christ, let's roll back the years when the sword WAS the weapon of choice, before we had bombs and bullets. The sword is mentioned because that was the weapon in Muhammad's narrative range. There is no reason to believe Jesus would carry an old-fashioned weapon to perpetrate, effectively, a murder. This is the stuff of Arab soldiers, who would be impressed by a warrior Jesus. They would be unimpressed by a victim Christ, meek and subservient. Muhammad framed his tales to suit his audience, with the notorious promise of beauties in paradise. It is sad that such stuff, suitable for the ears of rough, tough men of the 7th century is digested, whole, by people who inhabit a world where we send instant messages across the globe.


I accept that this material is believed by many, but since when did numbers or forced conversions signify truth? The basis for Islamic belief is that a man said he got a message from God, and he was believed. Simple as that - there's nothing divine about it.

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Re: Matthew S - Islam in General

Post #12

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Matthew S wrote: Assalamu alaykum - Greetings to everyone

Didn't want to derail the thread in the Christian forum so I decided to create a general thread in this section.

No offence intended but I do believe Satan is Satanic. I also believe that the bible, speaks about false religion inspired by the devil. Indeed many identify the Whore of Babylon as representing the world's religions!


Since you asked about Islam I will share my thoughts about ALLAH. I don't believe it would violate forum rules if I were to say that I believed a particular God in this case Allah, to be a violent genocide that supports pedophilia and a thoroughly unpleasant little fellow. I do believe it is fine to accuse God of anything or any crime ( such as raping a virgin) or perversion without offending but I will stand corrected if there are guidelines as to what one can say about God.





JW






RELATED POSTS


Is there such a thing as "demonic trickery"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 019#928019

Is there such a thing as a "good" spirit medium?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 265#943265

Can an encounter with a demon be a pleasant/pleasurable experience?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 072#836072

Who alone can distinguish between good spirits and bad?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 276#943276
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Matthew S - Islam in General

Post #13

Post by marco »

JehovahsWitness wrote:

Since you asked about Islam I will share my thoughts about ALLAH. I don't believe it would violate forum rules if I were to say that I believed a particular God in this case Allah, to be a violent genocide that supports pedophilia. I do believe it is fine to accuse God of anything or any crime or perversion without offending but I will stand corrected if there are guidelines as to what one can say about God. It is I believe ok to say I think Allah is evil.

To be fair, it was Muhammad who involved himself in his enthusiastic carnality, not God. He certainly asked when he could consummate relations with his six-year old bride, and he reported that Allah gave him advice. As if! His first wife and former employer, Khadijah, persuaded him - it seems - that his apparitions were divine and it's a short step from there to prophethood. The rest is history and conquest. Muhammad may have had great carnal appetite but he was undoubtedly astute, and knew how to manipulate people. He merits being one of history's famous warriors. To his great credit he advised followers not to bury female babies alive, which rather shows the interesting age in which he lived.



I'm not sure we can cast aspersions on Allah and leave Yahweh out of acts of cruelty and massacres. When we choose God, we choose all the baggage that goes with him.

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Re: Matthew S - Islam in General

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 13 by marco]

Well just wanted to assure myself that anything can be said about any God without it violating forum rules. I was unaware that there were rules about what can be said about the so-called holy books but I will be keeping an eye out about what I say about the bible so I do not cause offense to Christians (just expressing my personal resolve to monitor my own actions not anyone else's which would not be my place).

Back to the OP I believe both the bible and the Quaran speak about Satan, and both Islam and Christianity hold the concept of Satanic writings (written works inspired by Satan and the demons), and prophets of God of Prophets as opposed to Prophets of the Devil.


I believe it does not violate forum rules to refer to a historical figure as a false prophet ...
showme wrote: Your false prophet Paul, may promise you that you will be "twinkled", and not die, but Paul is dead...




JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Matthew S - Islam in General

Post #15

Post by marco »

JehovahsWitness wrote:

Well just wanted to assure myself that anything can be said about any God without it violating forum rules. I was unaware that there were rules about what can be said about the so-called holy books but I will be keeping an eye out about what I say about the bible so I do not cause offense to Christians (just expressing my personal resolve to monitor my own actions not anyone else's which would not be my place).

I believe it does not violate forum rules to refer to a historical figure as a false prophet ...
One's opposing view can always be expressed in a way that doesn't appear uncivil. Of course one can make adverse comments about books and people in those books, but perhaps occasionally language spills over offensively. It's a tough job being a kind critic and a considerate satirist. There are those who revere Muhammad and Paul and any criticism of them will be hurtful.

Sometimes religious theories seem, to me at least, rather absurd, and one may forget at times that some portion of the population accepts these absurdities. We can but do our best to express our view with some consideration. It may not always prevent someone somewhere from being offended.

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Re: Matthew S - Islam in General

Post #16

Post by Elijah John »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
No offence intended but I do believe Satan is Satanic. I also believe that the bible, speaks about false religion inspired by the devil. Indeed many identify the Whore of Babylon as representing the world's religions!

JW
Are you among the "many" who identify the "Whore of Babylon" and label other religions as such? And which religion qualifies as "false religion". All but Jehovah's Witnesses, including sects of "Christendom"?

Do you honestly believe that every world religion except for the WTS of JW is evil?

Even if those religions make their adherants better, peacable people?

It seems to me you are continuing to label every religion except for your own as "Satanic". Please clarify if this is not so. And if there are any good and Godly religions outside of the WTS.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #17

Post by Elijah John »

Matthew S wrote:
Initially, Jesus was the Messiah who sent to the Jews as a fulfillment of God's Religious Plans. The Jews rejected their Messiah because they weren't pleased with everything he was calling them to. As a result, the Jews became disbelievers in the God of their forefathers and have lost the opportunity to obtain the Godly Blessings that were offered to them throughout their Scriptures. The Jewish religion is now outdated and fundamentally flawed because it rejected the Messiah; and at this point, all of they're pre-planning and remaining patient for is the Dajjal (False Messiah), who will fulfill their political objectives in this life for some time, and then lead them to the Hell Fire for all of eternity (Excuse me if it is hostile, but it is the reality of our beliefs).

We believe that Jesus will be the one who kills the false Messiah. He will do so by looking into his eyes and causing him to burn and melt. Following this, Jesus will slay him with a sword as a way of reassuring the Muslims that the "Greatest Tribulation (Fitna)" has come to an end.

And God knows Best.
Is this denigration of Judaism, a fellow, Abrahamic monotheistic faith, fellow "peoples of the Book" the official position of Islam? Or just your opinion and that of some Islamic theologians.

Would it have been better for Jews and Judaism to embrace Jesus as their Messiah and worship him as a god, as Trinitarian Christians do? Are Christians accursed of God as well, according to Islam?

Also, most Jews are not awaiting a literal Messiah anymore, only a "Messianic age" of peace and justice. And certainly not a "false" messiah, as you seem to be accusing.

I read in Surah # 5
Believers, Jews, Sabeans, and Christians-whoever believes in God and in the Last Day and does what is right, will have nothing to fear or regret.
(and what are "Sabeans"? ;))

In spite of that passage, many Muslims seem to think Christians are damned for their error, and some Christians think Muslims are damned for their error. Judaism, however, considers both daughter religions, ethical, Abrahamic monotheistic religions. In Judaism, it is not necessary to become a Jew in order to be "saved". (Inherit a portion in the world to come). Good Muslims and good Christians are rewarded as well.

Seems to me that among the three, Jews and Judaism has the moral highground here, and the most reasonable position.
Last edited by Elijah John on Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Elijah John
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Re: Matthew S - Islam in General

Post #18

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 12 by JehovahsWitness]

Also, by attempting to denegrate Allah, you are denegrating the God of Abraham, the God known to you as Jehovah, to Trintiarians as the Father (Arab Christians also call the Father "Allah"), and to Jews as YHVH, (HaShem, Adonai, etc.)
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Matthew S - Islam in General

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 18 by Elijah John]
I don't know if it violates forum rules to say I don't believe all the Abrahamic religions and groups on earth worship the Creature acceptably so I will not say this but I will point out that the above reflects the official beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses (The religion).
The Jehovah's Witness religion's take on this is that claiming to worship YHWH doesnt mean that God accepts one's worship. I of course am not at liberty to say more, except that I believe Mohammed is a false Prophet (by false I mean an individual that claimed to be speaking God's thoughts but was not communicating with the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob - even though that is what he claimed). He may have been communicating with a spirit(s).
showme wrote: Your false prophet Paul, may promise you that you will be "twinkled", and not die, but Paul is dead...




JW


RELATED POSTS

Who or what is the "Whore of Babylon"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 185#917185

Further Reading:

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Have the One True Religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... -religion/
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Matthew S - Islam in General

Post #20

Post by Elijah John »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 18 by Elijah John]
I don't know if it violates forum rules to say I don't believe all the Abrahamic religions and groups on earth worship the Creature acceptably so I will not say this but I will point out that the above reflects the official beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses (The religion).
Where did you get this quote? Did you, or the person who said this, mean "worship the Creator acceptably? The quote reads "Creature" which doesn't make much sense. Unless of course one means "Jesus-worship", but I know you folks don't worship Jesus.

No, it wouldn't violate forum rules to say that. To attribute diabolical motives or origins to worship which differs from your own, however, is another matter, and is unacceptable.
JehovahsWitness wrote: The Jehovah's Witness religion's take on this is that claiming to worship YHWH doesnt mean that God accepts one's worship. I of course am not at liberty to say more, except that I believe Mohammed is a false Prophet (by false I mean an individual that claimed to be speaking God's thoughts but was not communicating with the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob - even though that is what he claimed). He may have been communicating with a spirit(s).
But you just don't know. You are entitled to your beliefs, but again, you are not allowed to cast other religions as sinister on this forum, unless of course the religion in question openly professes the embrace of evil and Satan. Why not give other religions and other religious people the benefit of the doubt? They may have aspects of the Truth that your sect has missed.
JehovahsWitness wrote: RELATED POSTS

Who or what is the "Whore of Babylon"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 185#917185

Further Reading:

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Have the One True Religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... -religion/
I'll check out those links. But will say this in advance. It's one thing to believe that one's religion is the beneficiary of the fullness of Divine revelation and is the best religion. Fair enough. Quite another to categorically classify other religions as "false" as you seem to be doing, or worse yet, "demonic". That is just dismissive and offensive, and possibly (probably) untrue.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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