Next Marian Dogma

A place to discuss Catholic topics and issues

Moderator: Moderators

ThroughRightlyDeclare
Student
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:05 pm
Location: Manila, Philippines

Next Marian Dogma

Post #1

Post by ThroughRightlyDeclare »

Correct me if I am wrong, but I know that there are at least 8 Marian dogmas imposed by the Catholic Church.

How does these dogmas affect Christocentricity of Roman Catholicism?

User avatar
ThatGirlAgain
Prodigy
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: New York City
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #11

Post by ThatGirlAgain »

pax wrote:
ThatGirlAgain wrote:
pax wrote:There are four Marian dogmas:

1). Her Immaculate Conception

2). Her perpetual virginity

3). Her sinless life

4). Her bodily Assumption into heaven.
The four Marian Dogmas are:

A Divine Motherhood
Mary is the mother (birthgiver) of Jesus, who is God.

B Perpetual Virginity
Mary has always been a virgin, even while giving birth miraculously.

C Immaculate Conception
By special grace, Mary was free from original sin from her conception. This implies a sinless life but that is not a separate doctrine.

D Assumption
At the end of her life, Mary was assumed bodily into heaven. The dogma does not state whether she was still alive or had actually died when this happened.

See here for further descriptions.

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/mariandogmas.html

(The University of Dayton is a private Catholic university.)
They are in error.

Theotokos is a title given to Mary by the Council of Ephesus. Its purpose was to arrest Christological heresies on the divine and human natures of Jesus Christ.

Mary's sinless life is the dogma.
Please provide documentation that your list of Marian Dogmas is the official one. In particular document that Mary leading a sinless life is a dogma whereas motherhood of God is not.

In the meantime, here is another source that agrees with me.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=424

And here is one that agrees with me except for the caveat that the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is not an officially declared dogma but a generally accepted one.
http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu66.htm

Note that it says "The first dogma, "Mary, the Mother of God," was proclaimed by the Council of Ephesus in AD 431." (Why should this disqualify it as a dogma?

And here is one that states the Motherhood of Mary (our point of disagreement) is indeed a dogma and "easily the least controversial of the Christian doctrines concerning Mary".
http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=101
Dogmatism and skepticism are both, in a sense, absolute philosophies; one is certain of knowing, the other of not knowing. What philosophy should dissipate is certainty, whether of knowledge or ignorance.
- Bertrand Russell

User avatar
pax
Guru
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:10 am
Location: Gravenhurst Ontario Canada

Post #12

Post by pax »

ThatGirlAgain wrote:
pax wrote:
ThatGirlAgain wrote:
pax wrote:There are four Marian dogmas:

1). Her Immaculate Conception

2). Her perpetual virginity

3). Her sinless life

4). Her bodily Assumption into heaven.
The four Marian Dogmas are:

A Divine Motherhood
Mary is the mother (birthgiver) of Jesus, who is God.

B Perpetual Virginity
Mary has always been a virgin, even while giving birth miraculously.

C Immaculate Conception
By special grace, Mary was free from original sin from her conception. This implies a sinless life but that is not a separate doctrine.

D Assumption
At the end of her life, Mary was assumed bodily into heaven. The dogma does not state whether she was still alive or had actually died when this happened.

See here for further descriptions.

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/mariandogmas.html

(The University of Dayton is a private Catholic university.)
They are in error.

Theotokos is a title given to Mary by the Council of Ephesus. Its purpose was to arrest Christological heresies on the divine and human natures of Jesus Christ.

Mary's sinless life is the dogma.
Please provide documentation that your list of Marian Dogmas is the official one.
For Mary's sinless life, see Council of Trent, Sess. 6, Canon 23.

I am still searching for an official list, which means a list from a magisterial source.

But I know what I was taught, and I hold to that.

User avatar
pax
Guru
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:10 am
Location: Gravenhurst Ontario Canada

Post #13

Post by pax »

Mary's sinlessness found in Mystici Corporis Christi by Pope Pius XII, paragraph 110.

From Ineffabilis Deus by Pope Pius IX --

This sublime and singular privilege of the Blessed Virgin, together with her most excellent innocence, purity, holiness and freedom from every stain of sin, as well as the unspeakable abundance and greatness of all heavenly graces, virtues and privileges

the Blessed Virgin was, through grace, entirely free from every stain of sin, and from all corruption of body, soul and mind

User avatar
ThatGirlAgain
Prodigy
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: New York City
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #14

Post by ThatGirlAgain »

pax wrote:Mary's sinlessness found in Mystici Corporis Christi by Pope Pius XII, paragraph 110.

From Ineffabilis Deus by Pope Pius IX --

This sublime and singular privilege of the Blessed Virgin, together with her most excellent innocence, purity, holiness and freedom from every stain of sin, as well as the unspeakable abundance and greatness of all heavenly graces, virtues and privileges the Blessed Virgin was, through grace, entirely free from every stain of sin, and from all corruption of body, soul and mind
Ineffabilis Deus is the Encyclical that established the Immaculate Conception as an Article of Faith. Here is the explicit declaration.
We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.
Your # 1 (“Her Immaculate Conception�) and your # 3 (“Her sinless life�) are from the same Encyclical. The explicit official doctrine is the Immaculate Conception. You are missing Divine Motherhood.
Dogmatism and skepticism are both, in a sense, absolute philosophies; one is certain of knowing, the other of not knowing. What philosophy should dissipate is certainty, whether of knowledge or ignorance.
- Bertrand Russell

User avatar
pax
Guru
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:10 am
Location: Gravenhurst Ontario Canada

Post #15

Post by pax »

ThatGirlAgain wrote:
pax wrote:Mary's sinlessness found in Mystici Corporis Christi by Pope Pius XII, paragraph 110.

From Ineffabilis Deus by Pope Pius IX --

This sublime and singular privilege of the Blessed Virgin, together with her most excellent innocence, purity, holiness and freedom from every stain of sin, as well as the unspeakable abundance and greatness of all heavenly graces, virtues and privileges the Blessed Virgin was, through grace, entirely free from every stain of sin, and from all corruption of body, soul and mind
Ineffabilis Deus is the Encyclical that established the Immaculate Conception as an Article of Faith. Here is the explicit declaration.
We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.
Your # 1 (“Her Immaculate Conception�) and your # 3 (“Her sinless life�) are from the same Encyclical. The explicit official doctrine is the Immaculate Conception. You are missing Divine Motherhood.
The divine motherhood of Mary is about Christ, not Mary. Hence, I do not include it in the Marian dogmas. That Mary is the Mother of God speaks to the divine Person of Jesus Christ and was defined for the sake of those who had fallen into the error that Christ was two persons, one human and one divine.

User avatar
ThatGirlAgain
Prodigy
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: New York City
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #16

Post by ThatGirlAgain »

pax wrote:
ThatGirlAgain wrote:
pax wrote:Mary's sinlessness found in Mystici Corporis Christi by Pope Pius XII, paragraph 110.

From Ineffabilis Deus by Pope Pius IX --

This sublime and singular privilege of the Blessed Virgin, together with her most excellent innocence, purity, holiness and freedom from every stain of sin, as well as the unspeakable abundance and greatness of all heavenly graces, virtues and privileges the Blessed Virgin was, through grace, entirely free from every stain of sin, and from all corruption of body, soul and mind
Ineffabilis Deus is the Encyclical that established the Immaculate Conception as an Article of Faith. Here is the explicit declaration.
We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.
Your # 1 (“Her Immaculate Conception�) and your # 3 (“Her sinless life�) are from the same Encyclical. The explicit official doctrine is the Immaculate Conception. You are missing Divine Motherhood.
The divine motherhood of Mary is about Christ, not Mary. Hence, I do not include it in the Marian dogmas. That Mary is the Mother of God speaks to the divine Person of Jesus Christ and was defined for the sake of those who had fallen into the error that Christ was two persons, one human and one divine.
You can count any way you want. But the OP asked about Marian dogmas 'imposed' by the Church, that is, official according to the Church. Every place I look comes up with the same four, the ones I listed.

Here is another:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=424
Dogmatism and skepticism are both, in a sense, absolute philosophies; one is certain of knowing, the other of not knowing. What philosophy should dissipate is certainty, whether of knowledge or ignorance.
- Bertrand Russell

Post Reply