Why do the catholics preach a false gospel?

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Composer
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Why do the catholics preach a false gospel?

Post #1

Post by Composer »

Even a trinitarian scholar admits what the trinitarian catholic church now preaches was NOT what the earliest and original believers taught or believed!

The late Dr. W R Matthews, Dean of St Paul's Cathedral, wrote:

"It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed". (27)

Or more recently:

"In order to understand the doctrine of the Trinity it is necessary to understand that the doctrine is a development, and why it developed. ... It is a waste of time to attempt to read Trinitarian doctrine directly off the pages of the New Testament". (28)

27. "God in Christian Thought and Experience", p.180
28. A & R Hanson: "Reasonable Belief, A survey of the Christian Faith, p.171-173,1980

&

CARDINAL NEWMAN, the most remarkable English ecclesiastic of the 19th century:

"It may startle those who are but acquainted with the popular writing of this day, yet, I believe, the most accurate consideration of the subject will lead us to acquiesce in the statement as a general truth, that the doctrines in question (viz., the Trinity and the Incarnation) have never been learned merely from Scripture. Surely the sacred volume was never intended, and is not adapted to teach us our creed; however certain it is that we can prove our creed from it, when it has once been taught us. . . . From the very first, the rule has been, as a matter of fact, for the Church to teach the truth, and then appeal to Scripture in vindication of its own teaching." -Arians of the Fourth Century, pp. 55-56.

i.e. the trinity formulation is a ' johnny come lately corruption of the original beliefs! '.

Image
Your alleged gods are very bad god persons, I am offering them the chance to become good god persons for the very first time, but only after they admit they are bad god persons and want to try again.

S-word
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Post #41

Post by S-word »

Baal worship is the worship of the immortal God in the form of a mortal man. They worshiped the Baal of the covenant, before the statue of a man.

Romans 1: 18-22; God’s anger is revealed from heaven against all the sin and evil of the people whose evil ways prevent the truth of God from being known. God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God himself has made it plain.

Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature have been clearly seen for he has made himself manifest in the universe itself. So those people have no excuse at all! They know God, but they do not give him the honour that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness. They say they are wise, but they are fools, instead of worshiping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortal man, etc.

How many who have been spawned from the spirit of the anti-christ within the universal church of Constantine, who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, and believe in the ridiculous non-biblical teaching that he was born of a virgin, and yet who still bow down before the image of a human being when they worship the Father of Jesus, who is our Father, and the God of Jesus, who is our God also, See John 20: 17. How gullible can people be, they swallow the camel (The simple truth) and gag on a gnat, (The unbelievable lie, that a woman can conceive a human child without the introduction of human semen into her uterus).

The 850 false prophets that were slaughtered by Elijah, were all Baal worshipers, much the same as the Baal worshipers of today, those of the Jesuite order, who worship the immortal God in the image of a mortal man, and the male members who are known as Servite Friars or Servants of Mary their heavenly queen, who herself was supposed to have been born of immaculate conception and was carried to heaven and is now worshiped as the “Mother of God,� who they claim is co-redeemer of the body of Man, and the mediator between man and her son, who they believe is the co-creator of the cosmos, these are all Baal worshipers and will be brought to nothing by the fiery spirit of Elijah, the Messenger of God.

One of the most important Holy days of their heavenly queen, is the Feast of the Assumption, celebrated every year on August 15, it’s a very old feast of the Church, celebrated universally by the sixth century, and it commemorates the death of Mary and her bodily assumption into Heaven, before her body could begin to decay. Like those servants of Mary, the servants of Asherah, would pray to their heavenly mother to intercede with their “Baal� God for them.

According to ancient mythology, Asherah, the mother goddess, was the wife of El the creator, and mother of seventy gods, of whom Baal was the most famous, and through their heavenly mother of the Gods, they worshiped also, Baal the most important of her sons.

King James Translation: When Ahab returned, without the prophets of Baal from the grove,, and told Jezebel everything that Elijah had done, and how he had put ALL the prophets of Baal to death by the sword. She sent a message to Elijah, saying, may the Lord strike her dead, if she had not done to him by the same time tomorrow, that which he had done to one of them. Then Elijah, who had put all 850 prophets of Baal to the sword, bolted, in fear of his life.

How wonderful it would be, if today's worshipers of Baal, could see the error of their ways and turn to the immortal God, who manifestts himself in the entire creation, before the appearance of the fiery visitation of Elijah the Messenger, who is to come and prepare the way for the Lord?

Elijah who was carried up to stand by Enoch's side
Stood by the brook of Kishron where the priests of Baal all died
It was he who gave the order and the waters all turned red
As fifty and eighty hundred more, false prophets all fell dead.
Will you fight the war 'gainst ignorance? The war that will be won
By those who weild the S-word of God, the sharpe two edged tongue.....By S-word.

Malachi 3: 1-2; The Lord Almighty answers, "I will send my messenger to prepare the way for me. Then the Lord you are looking for will sudenly come to his Temple (Chosen Earthly body which will be translated by his visitation) The messenger you long to see will come and proclaim my covenant." (2) But who will be able to endure the day when he comes? Who will survive when he appears?

S-word
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Post #42

Post by S-word »

S-word wrote:Emperor Constantine killed his son “Crispus,� in 326 AD., eleven years before he became a Christian, and when he was informed that the accusation of his wife ‘Fausta,’ the step-mother and rejected lover of “Crispus,� by which accusation he had executed his son was false, she only escaped the wrath of her husband by committing suicide at Treviri.

Constantine only became a Christian, when, on his deathbed in the spring of 337 AD., He was Baptised by Eusebius, bishop of Nicomedia.

[ThatGirlAgain wrote]……Sorry, Constantine did not found anything. There was already a network of 1800 bishops in the church. (Ref) Neither did he establish any particular graven in stone doctrine. Rather he flipflopped.

Which of the churches that Constantine unified under his one universal church, had 1800 bishops that you are referring too? Rome, Alexandria, or Antioch?

But, I think Constantine and his mother Helena, had more to do the formation of the universal church than you give them credit for. Helena, and her ridiculous false teachings. By the way, did you see the commotion in the church of the Nativity, the other night? But I’ll get around to Helena’s ratbag religious unbiblical teaching of the Milk Grotto, which is one of the so-called truths of the church of Constantine at some later time.

From the book, “Jesus the Evidence� by Ian Wilson. P. 138 and 142.

All bracketed interpolations in BLUE are mine.

If christianity had an unorthodox champion in Constantine, he for his part had aquired an extraordinary assortment of subjects in those who called themselves christians in his time. There were bitter divisions between the traitors, who had betrayed their fellow christians, surrendered christian books, and offered pagan sacrifices during the recent Roman persecutions, and those who had suffered mutilation and hard labour rather than do so.

There were equally deep divisions between christians from Rome and those from Alexandria and those from Antioch. In Alexandria, Docrtism, the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being had theroretically been stamped out. Nonetheless there persisted the belief that Jesus must have been to much a god, THE GOD, to have the normal bodily needs of Man, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: “It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion.� (Satan must have had some trouble trying to tempt this false Jesus of theirs into turning stones into bread.)

Constantine, who had just won the eastern half of the Empire, thereby at last achieving his cherished goal of unity, suddenly found himself in the midst of this seething dispute between two rival groups of (So-called), Christians, with epithets such as “maniacs, eels, cuttlefish, atheists and wolves,� being hurled at each other. The extent to which Constantine, of no great education, even understood the theological issues is by no means clear, but he tried to pacify the protagonists by sending an identical letter to both Arius and Alexander, almost unctuously pleading for ‘equal forbearance’ and reconciliation.

“Constantine the victor, Supreme Augustus, to Alexander and Arius….how deep a wound has not only my ears, but my heart received from the report that divisions exist among yourselves….having enquired carefully into the origin and foundation of these differences, I find their cause to be of a truly insignificant nature, quite unworthy of such bitter contention. . . Restore my quite days and untroubled nights to me, so that joy of undimmed light, delight in a tranquil life, may once again be mine.�

Unfortunately, from a distance even Constantine was unable to smooth such troubled waters. Nor was there any supreme ecclesiastical authority to whom the matter could be referred. No one “Pope� as such existed, the Bishops of Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch each being recognised as having supreme authority within their geographical regions, but no supremacy over all (The so-called) Christendom.

Accordingly, to resolve this and other issues (Such as the date of Easter, another bitter source of contention), Constantine decided personally to summon all the (So-called) Christian leaders to the first ever ‘World Council’. The appointed date was early summer of 325 AD, the venue the pleasant lakeside town of Nicaea, today Iznik in north-western Turkey, where Constantine had a suitably commodious palace.

From the very circumstances of the time, it was bound to be an extraordinary gathering, With (so-called) Christianity having spread so far as Britain in the West and India in the East, for some of the delegates the journey took several weeks, if not months. When the assembled, it was to set eyes on each other for the first time in many cases, though for several, such as Bishop Pamphnutius, sight was denied because they had been viciously blinded during earlier persecutions. The hermit Jacob of Nisibis arrived in goatskins, accompanied by a persistent horde of gnats. Another delegate was the saintly Nicholas from the city of Myra in Asia Minor, who was the prototype of the Christmas Santa Claus. Also present of course was Arius. Although the Bishop of Rome excused himself as too old to travel, he sent two priests to represent him. Before this bizarre and unprecedented assembly Constantine, dazzlingly robed and dripping with gold and Jewels of a decadence earlier emperors would have abhorred, took his place on a low, wrought gold chair.

It was at this point in history, and before this assembly, that a decision was to be made that would have he most profound consequences for believers in Jesus Christ to this day. In the simplest of terms, the point at issue was whether Jesus was a mere human being (Acts 3: 13; "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of your ancestors, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.) and was now (Incontestably divine) who had been brought into existence to serve God’s purpose-to act as the ‘word’ of God (Deuteronomy 18: 18; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.) at a particular time in the early first century AD, or whether he had been God for all eternity, ‘of one substance with the Father (As those in the West expressed it), If the latter, then he was effectively a supraterrestrial entity easily compared with Sol Invictus, but light years removed from the Jesus envisaged by Arius and the Antiochenes.

Although reports of the exact proceedings of the Council of Nicaea have not survived, from those contemporary accounts that do exist it would seem that Eusebius of Nicomedia and Eusebius of Caesarea, representing the Antiochene party, forcefully espoused the Arian view, confidently expecting that they would win the day. To try to provide a formula on which the whole gathering would agree, Eusebius of Caesarea read out the statement of belief which he was accustomed to employ at baptisms within his own diocese.

“We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of all that is seen and unseen, and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the word of God, god from God, light from light, life from life, only begotten son, firstborn of all creation, before all ages begotten from the Father, who for our salvation was incarnate and lived among man.�

It is important to recognise that while the distinctions implied by capital letters today did not exist in Constantine’s time (As mentioned earlier, only uncials were employed then) as set out above they convey what Eusebius and the Antiochenes essentially intended. To most catholics the words will have a familiar ring because at every mass they recite almost the same formula. For many present day Christians the words more than adequately impart a divinity to Jesus, particularly in quite illogically accrediting him first born of all creation. But to the fourth century Alexandrians, as was made clear by the brilliantly eloquent Arch-deacon Athanasius (Acting as spokesmean for his aged bishop Alexandria), it simply did not go far enough, and was not sufficiently precise. It made Jesus appear less than God himself.

For the judgment of Solomon on the issue, the only appropriate recourse was to Constantine, almost theologically illiterate, but politically a superb man manager. Exactly what swayed Constantine in that crucial moment we shall probably never know. There can be little doubt that for him the deification of a man was nothing particular special. He had his father Constantius deified, and would be accorded the same honour after his own death, and would surely have expected Jesus to be a superior entity in the divine hierarchy. He might well also have taken into account Alexandria’s strategic and commercial advantages. What-ever his motives, Constantine ruled in favour of the Alexandrian. Eusebius’ formula was heavenly edited to accommodate the Alexandrian view, and while affirming that the standpoint of the Antiochenes was entirely reasonable, Constantine urged all council delegates to sign the revised formula as a statement of faith on which all Christians should in the future agree.

For all those who signed, there was the inducement of an invitation to stay on at Nicaea as Constantine’s guests for his twentieth anniversary celebrations. For all who refused there was immediate banishment. Among all concerned, it would appear to have gone entirely unnoticed that the formula they were about to impose on all future christians contained not one jot of the ethical teachings that the human Jesus had once preached. Perhaps not unexpectedly, all but two of the most die-hard Arian Loyalists signed. But from the none too truth face-saving letter Eusebius of Caesarea sent back to his home diocese, it is clear how uneasy he felt about the extent to which he had compromised the fundamental principles of what he had been taught about Jesus.

Other signatories, who were equally swayed into acquiescence by their awe of the forceful Constantine, felt exactly the same. Only on returning home did Eusebius of Nicomedia, Maris of Chalcedon and Theognis of Nicaea summon the courage to express to Constantine in writing how much they regretted having put their signatures to the Nicaea formula: “We commited an impious act, O Prince,� wrote Eusebius of Nicomedia, “by subscribing to a blasphemy from fear of you.�

But it was too late. An overwhelming majority of christianity’s highest dignitaries had put pen to parchment, and even though the Arian controversy would rumble on for another two or three centuries, effectively there was no turning back. Although no gospel regarded Jesus as God, and not even Paul had done so, the Jewish teacher had been declared “very God� through all eternity and a whole (False) theology would flow from this.
It was the will of God that the universal church of Constantine should be established to rule his stubborn flock (Israel).

Zechariah 13: 7, The Lord Almighty says, “Wake up Sword, and attack the shepherd who works for me! Kill him, etc.

Zechahiah 11: 12; “If you are willing, give me my wages. But if not, keep them.� So they paid me thirty pieces of silver as my wages.

The Lord said to me, “cast it unto the potter: that goodly price that I was priced at by them.� So I took the thirty pieces of silver---and cast it to the potter in the house of the Lord. -------------------

And the Lord said to me, “Now take the instruments of a foolish shepherd. For I will now raise up a shepherd in the world, which shall not visit those that are cut off, neither shall he seek the little ones, nor heal them that are broken, nor feed them that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws to pieces.

Woe to that idol shepherd that leaves the flock! The sword shall be on his arm, and upon his right eye: His arm shall be clean dried, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.�

O! You shepherd of the darkness who claim God sent You out
And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more
A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock
And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock
For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep. And their hoofs? He tears them off
That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock
His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop
And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen
The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.

Continuing from the book, “Jesus The Evidence,� by Ian Wilson. P. 144.

The Middle Ages, for the Jews at least, began with the advent to power of Constanttine the Great. He was the first Roman Emperor to issue laws which radically limited the rights of the Jews as citzens of the Roman Empire, a right conferred on them by Caracalla in 212 AD. As (The so-called Christianity of Constantine’s church) grew in power it influenced the emperors to limit further the civil and political rights of the Jews.

But if times were again difficult for the Jews, for the Christian Gnostics and other fringe groups they were impossible. The books of Arius and his sympathizers were ordered to be burnt, and a reign of terror proclaimed for all those who did not conform with the new official (So-called) Christian line.

"Understand now by this present statute, Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulinians, you who sre called Cataphrygians. . . . with what a tissue of lies and vanities, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inextricably woven! We give you warning . . . .Let none of you presume, from this time forward, to meet in congregations. To prevent this, we command that you be deprived of all the houses in which you have been accustomed to meet . . . . and that these house should be handed over immediately to the catholic/ i.e. universal church."

Within a generation, hardly leaving a trace of their existence for posterity, the great majority of these groups simply died away as successive Christian emperors reiterated the politics that Constantine had pursued.

S-word
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Post #43

Post by S-word »

The truth as revealed by the spirit that Jesus has sent into the world, which truth brings to nothing the false teaching of the church of Constantine, that God was only able to raise from death, a human like body, which was not descended from Adam the first human being, in which human like body, his immortal and eternal Son and co-creator of the cosmos, walked the earth disguised as a human being.

The Most high in the creation is the body of mankind, who is Lord of creatures, and the prototype of the Lord of spirits, who is the “Son of Man,� The supreme personality of godhead to have developed from within the body of the most high in the creation.

He, the invisible Godhead and Most High in the invisible dimension that co-exists within this three dimensional world, (The Kingdom of God is within you) is Lord of all the spiritual evolving godheads to the life forms, which are lower than the most high on the ladder of creation.

Adam was the Godhead to all of the animal spirits that had been gathered in the creation of mankind. In Adam, there were no human ancestral spirits, only ancestral animal spirits.

Enoch was the chosen cornerstone in the creation of the next stage of the evolution in this world, which is that new being that evolves from mankind, “The Son of Man.�

First, "MAN" (man (�נוש� : 'enosh') in English, a mortal human being) was created a little lower than the angels, then he is crowned with glory and all creation is placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN (man (�נוש� : 'enosh) in English, a mortal human being) WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY, we have not yet seen this happen. But we have seen Jesus, the first born from the dead, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by our heavenly Father and saviour, and now sits in His heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites those, who win the victory also, to sit with him in our Father’s throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which, according to Paul, includes even the angels, will bow at their feet.

365, the number of days in a calendar year, the age of the sacrificial lamb. Genesis 5: 23; Enoch at the age of 365, disappeared for God had taken him . Hebrew 11: 5; By faith Enoch was translated [changed from one form to another] that he should not see death; and was not found for God had translated him, etc.

This man who is recorded in God’s Holy word as the only exception of all mankind to have stood before the throne of Godhead and to have been anointed as the successor to the Godhead of the most high in the creation, was rejected by the church of Constantine.

The Book of Jubilees 4: 23, concerning Enoch, “And he was taken from amongst the children of men and we (The Angels) conducted him into the Garden of Eden in majesty and honour, and behold there he writes down the condemnation and judgment of the world, and all the wickedness of the children of men. And on account of it [Enoch’s accusations] (God) bought the waters of the flood upon all the land of Eden.

The Book of the Secrets of Enoch 22: 4; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord [The Most High in the creation] with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, Arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratege Michael lifted me up and led me before the Lord's face.

And the Lord, who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel, which could save but one man, said to his servants, the glorious “CREATURES� that surrounded him, tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity: and the glorious ones bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch GO, or “Let Enoch be released,� according to thy word."

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go and take Enoch out of his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of MY glory."

And Michael did thus, as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun's rays, and I looked at myself, and behold, I was like one of the glorious ones.

There in heaven, Enoch was translated from a mortal body of corruptible matter into a glorious immortal body of blinding Light, in order that he should never experience death. There, girded and clothed in fire, He serves God before the body of Adam (Mankind) into all eternity.

The transition of the Godheads occurred when the body of Adam was submerged in the baptismal waters of the earth and the new body of the descendants of Noah arose.

Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives are all direct descendants of Enoch’s six sons, Methusalah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad. It was in the new body that rose from the baptismal waters, that Enoch ascended to the ends of this age. when the body of mankind, in which the spirit in man is currently evolving, is destroyed and the spiritual “Son of Man�, who is born of the body of Mankind/Eve, [Who dies six days after Adam, who died in the first day at the age of 930] descends through time, and reveals himself through his obedient servant “Jesus� of Nazareth.

Jesus, who appeared to Saul/Paul on the Road to Damascus in his new glorious body of blinding light and who answered Saul’s question, “Who are you Lord�? With, “I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you are persecuting, was the first to receive his share of the hidden Manna, which is the immortal body of the anointed one who cannot die, but whose body of incorruptible and glorious light, is torn asunder and poured out as fire for our salvation on the heads of all those who believed his words as spoken through his faithful and obedient servant Jesus.

When Christ our Saviour, the one anointed by the Most High, was about to came into the world and pay the penalty for the sins of the body in which he had developed, by dying in the process of involution in order to be the saviour of we in evolution, He said to God, “Offerings and sacrifices you never asked for, but a body you have prepared for me, that body was the man Jesus who received the spirit of the man Enoch, who was the cornerstone, the first and least, in the great gathering of spirits that was seen as the glorious simulacrum/Blueprint who, at the ends of all time is the sacrificial lamb of God.

To equate the man Enoch, with the glorious simulacrum who dies in the process of involution for our salvation, would be like equating mankind with the organic molecules in the primeval sludge pools of organic material, of the junior earth from which mankind had evolved.

1st Peter 3: 20; while dead in the flesh but alive in spirit, Jesus descended through time and through the body of Noah, preached to the dead, [relative to the Roman period in which Jesus was born of the flesh as all men are born] to those who had been disobedient in the days when Noah was building the boat.

1st Peter 4: 6; That’s why the Good News was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they may live as God lives.

Those who had been judged in the flesh as all are judged and found worthy of eternal life, those spirits of Good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness after paying the blood price for their inherited sin and any mistake they may have made in the lives on earth, who were separated from the unrighteous dead and had been gathered to the living evolving spirit of Enoch within the bosom of Abraham, were the spirits, [Tongues of fire] that descended on the heads of all those who believed the words of our Father as spoken through the mouth of the one that he chose to speak in his name.

Those spirits who were the spiritual enclosure within the body of Jesus, who was Enoch reborn on earth, were released with the death of that body.

They, the righteous dead, now live as God lives, and within the inner dimension, they are gathering to themselves the spirits of all their good descendants who fall asleep in righteousness, and when the time is right, they, like Enoch, will choose from the body of mankind, one who is obedient to their inner being, and within their chosen earthly host bodies, they will die in involution, releasing from the least to the greatest, all the spirits upon which they had evolved.

Spirits, who had all paid the blood price for any mistakes that they may have made in their lives, then when the process is complete, those who have remained true and obedient to the awakening spirits within, will be a duplication of the heavenly one who chose them and the two will be one, the heavenly ones will be reborn on earth and take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule the earth with Justice.

Like Jesus, death shall have no power over the chosen ones, who are but a compilation of all their good ancestral spirits who had all paid the blood price for their sins and no righteous man must die twice.

When the “Son of Man,� descended through time and was chosen by Abraham as his God, “Who I Am,� said to Abraham, “In blessing, I will bless you, and in multiplying (Bearing sons) I will multiply you.

When Abraham was born, not one of his ten ancestors had died and had been gathered to the living and evolving spirit of Enoch, our indwelling father. Abraham was true to who He was, to see Abraham, was to see the Man Enoch. From that day all the spirits of Good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness after paying the blood price for any sins or mistakes that they had made in their lives, were gathered to the growing spirit of Enoch, within the bosom of Abraham.

Isaiah 57: 1; “Good people die and no one understands or even cares. But when they (Good People) die, no calamity can harm them. Those who lead good lives, find peace and rest in death.�

If those who live good lives find peace and rest in death, then there awaits a state of fearful expectation for those who lead wicked lives, as described by Jesus in his Parable of “Lazarus and the rich man.�

The Father spirit in Jesus, was Enoch as he had evolved to at that point in time, The spiritual indwelling Father of Jesus, was Enoch the compilation of all the spirits of Good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness after paying the blood price for any mistakes in their lives, and had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham.

Anyone who breeds pedigree dogs, will know that if their pedigree bich is impregnated by some mongrel, and its semen enters her uterus, even though conception may not occur with that particular mating, certain genetic characteristics of that mongrel will manifest themselves in any future offspring from that bich, even though she is then mated with a pedigree dog, for the two, “the mongrel and the pedigree bich, will have become one.�

It was for this reason, that Mary, the obedient handmaid to her indwelling father, in who was the genetic combination of the required number of spirits that had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham, which are needed as the ransom blood for one man, had to remain a pure virgin, until she was spiritually attracted to the man chosen by the Holy Spirit who had the required genetic inheritance needed for the creation of the promised seed of Abraham, who was her half Brother, Joseph the son of “Heli,� and “Heli,� was also the father of Mary.

The act of obedience by the handmaid of the Lord was counted as righteousness and was concealed in the shadow of the wings of the Lord of Spirits which had descended upon them.

Enoch the cornerstone to the Great heavenly Simulacrum, who is the sacrificial Lamb of God, the least in the spiritual enclosure of the great Sacrificial Simulacrum was the first fruits to be harvested from the body of mankind, the first of many brothers who are to reborn on earth, as was Enoch, in his chosen earthly host body, the man Jesus.

John 14: 30; “I cannot talk with you much longer, because [death] the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me. But the world must know I love the Father, that is why I do everything as he commands me.�

While dead in the flesh but alive in spirit, Jesus descended through time and through the body of Noah, preached to the dead, [relative to the Roman period in which Jesus was born of the flesh as all men are born] to those who had been disobedient in the days when Noah was building the boat.

From the ‘Book of Enoch the Prophet’ CVI: 1-6, “Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son (IN 2950 BC and Lamech was the physical Father to Noah the giant) And his body was as white as snow and as red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he (Jesus who now sits in the throne of Godhead of our Father, within the inner most sanctuary of the body of post flood mankind) arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with (Enoch) the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, (Just as Eve was terrified when she first saw Cain the shinning one and thought to kill him) and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.

Death will have no power over the elect and chosen ones, who take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule with Christ for the Sabbath, the day of the Lord, the seventh period of one thousand years, After which, fire will descend from heaven and incinerate all physical life forms on this planet, but at the sound of the last trumpet, those, whose inner spirits, will have been in the valley of the earth for 3,000 years, or 3 days from when they were poured out as fire on the heads of the believers, will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter into glorious bodies of incorruptible glorious and blinding Light, as was the body of the risen Jesus. And as we have born the image of the First Adam, so shall we bear the image of the resurrected Jesus, the second Adam.

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Post #44

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The Kabbala decribes four Adams, the two highest of which, are celestial and spiritual. “The third Adam is the terrestrial Adam made of dust, and placed in the Garden of Eden. This Adam is also an androgene—it had, when first created, a glorious simulacrum or light body, and answers to the Yetzecratic World.� Ibid., p. 418. The fourth Adam was the third Adam as he was after the Fall, when he was clothed with skin, flesh, nerves etc. This answers to the lower Nephesh and Guff, i.e. body, united. He has the animal power of reproduction and continuance of species, and also answers to the Aseeyatic World, but in him is some of the light of all the preceding Adams.� Ibid., p. 418.

At the close of the first day, 987 years after the glorious light body of Adam was cast down to earth and clothed with animal shin, flesh and nerves etc, Enoch, was carried to the throne of Godhead to the Most High in the creation, where he was anointed by Most high as his successor, (he is the Christ) and he had been hidden in the valley of man for three days before he was reborn on earth of human parents, as the man Jesus, some 2000 years ago.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; “And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: ‘On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die.’ For this reason Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it.� We are now at the close of the sixth day.

3 thousand years ago, or three days ago, Elijah was taken up to stand before Enoch, and hidden in the valley of man, it is he, who appears before the terrible day of God’s wrath, the time of the greatest tribulation that we will ever experience.

We are almost at the close of the sixth day, and soon, comes the great tribulation, which is the war to end all wars, after which, the Sabbath, the Day of the Lord will dawn, the seventh period of one thousand years in which the risen body of our saviour will take the thrones that have been prepared for them, and through his risen body, he shall rule the world with Justice for a thousand years, and then comes the end of this age, when fire will descend from heaven and incinerate all physical life-forms on this planet.

Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Sandalphron and Metatron are evolved human angels, Metatron is the name that was given to Enoch after he had been translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of incorruptible light, and Sandalphron, who is erroneously thought by some to be Metatron’s twin, is in fact Elijah’s angelic name after he was carried up to stand before Enoch and was also transfigured.

The coming Elijah/Sandalphron, the Jewish Messiah, is not the twin of our heavenly Father Enoch/Metatron, but is the duplication of our heavenly Father, who gives his immortal body of glorious and brilliant light, in order that we might live.

Soon, Elijah will come to his chosen earthly Temple, the elements of which chosen body, will become so excited by his presence, they will ignite, transforming that body of corruptible matter into a glorious incorruptible body of blinding light.

Malachi 3: 1-2; The lord Almighty answers, “I will send my messenger to prepare the way for me. Then the Lord you are looking for will suddenly come to his Temple. The messenger you long to see will come and proclaim my covenant.� But who will be able to endure the day when he comes? Who will be able to survive when he appears?

We are almost at the close of the sixth day, and soon, comes the great tribulation, which is the war to end all wars, after which, the Sabbath, the Day of the Lord will dawn, in which the risen body of our saviour will take the thrones that have been prepared for them, and through his risen body, he shall rule the world with Justice for a thousand years, and then comes the end of this age, when fire will descend from heaven and incinerate all physical life-forms on this planet.

The war to end all wars is not between God and Satan, but between the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the Nations of the world, who would drive Israel into the sea and into oblivion, if not for His intervention.

Concerning that war to end all wars; which is to be the salvation of the Nation of Israel in the great tribulation, when the Holy City will be surrounded by those nations who would attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea.

“Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision. The sun and moon shall be darkened and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem, and the heavens and earth shall shake, but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

So shall ye know that I am your Lord God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: the shall Jerusalem be holy and strangers will never again conquer it. (A futuristic prophesy, as this has not occurred, as yet.)

“A King like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his possession. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors.

They shall look upon me, and see the one they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child.

“Who is this coming from Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?� It is the Lord powerful to save, coming to announce his victory. “Why is his clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?�

The Lord answers, “I have trampled the Nations like grapes and no one came to help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I decided that the time to save my people had come; it was time to punish their enemies. I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled whole Nations and shattered them. I poured out their life’s blood on the earth.�

Zechariah speaks of the day in which the Lord will save his people. Chapter 14: “The Lord will come to fight for his people as he has fought in times past. He will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nation who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God’s chosen people into the sea.

The Lord will throw them into a state of confusion, and the weapons of destruction, with which they would destroy Israel, He will cause them to turn upon their own allies, and they will suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue, such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh, ‘cooked to the bone,’ will slide from their bodies while they are still standing.

Then all the surviving Nations, will send their representatives each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship, and pay tribute to the Lord, who will rule the whole world with justice and woe betide those who refuse to do so. For that nation will suffer the same disease, as those who would destroy Israel.

Then all the godless people of the world, and all those, who, in their cathedrals of stone, Marble, and crystal, who sing and dance with their eyes and hands raised to the heavens in worship of a god they neither know or understand, will bow down and worship the God of the Bible.

MALACHI 3: 1-2; The Lord Almighty says, “I will send my messenger to prepare the way for me. Then the Lord you are looking for will suddenly come to his Temple. The messenger you long to see will come and proclaim my covenant.�

But who will be able to endure the day when he comes? Who will be able to survive when he appears?

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Post #45

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me. I can and will.
piece of cake.
not even trying.
which is nice.

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Post #46

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Slopeshoulder wrote:me. I can and will.
piece of cake.
not even trying.
which is nice.
I wished that I had your confidence matey, but I pray that you do, young fellow. Yet living in San Francisco, and only some 1000 mile driving distance from Yellowstone Park, the odds might seem to be against you, but then the Lord works in wonderful mysterious ways.

In dream I saw the heavens ablaze with balls of fire
Huge hailstones that were burning and streaking down the sky
The earth was clothed in purple, dark orange and deep blue
Like a swaddling cloth surrounding us that hid the stars from view
Dark clouds rose from the mountain peaks, earth’s veins were opened wide
Through which her inner blood spewed forth, in streams of living fire
Whole continents, they heaved and tossed, wave rippled through the ground
In all the earth, no hiding place of safety could be found.

The oceans boiled, they foamed and rose, destroying cities on their shores
All the river dams were busted valley towns were seen no more
The power stations of the earth all were melted down
A few survivors of the human race were all that could be found
And then I saw the winter, a winter so severe
It lasted not a few short months, but many, many years
And the women who were pregnant, O God! The children that they bore
Grotesque and hideous malformations, I pray to see that sight no more

Then when the winter lifted and crops began to grow
A strange and eerie world emerged, from the destruction and the snow
A world with neither day nor night, where even rainbows couldn’t form
In the atmosphere above the earth, and yet the air was strangely warm
A thousand years or twilight and through that swaddling band on high
Three blood red giants were glowing through a hazed and orange sky
The sun and moon had turned to blood, yet far brighter than the moon
Was Jupiter the heavenly light, which in time would spell man’s doom

The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Ice land which spewed out massive amounts of Lava in 2350 B.C. coupled with a close encounter with a passing comet and a Tunguska like fire ball, which is believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Ireland that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilised world in the day of Noah around 2,350 B.C, will appear as a non-event when compared to the greatest tribulation that man has ever seen or will ever see that is prophesied to occur before the Day of the Lord. If the Magma chamber under Yellowstone park which is overdue to explode, look out, but that will only be the beginning of the tribulation that will result in annihilation of all physical life upon this planet.

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Post #47

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S-word wrote:
Slopeshoulder wrote:me. I can and will.
piece of cake.
not even trying.
which is nice.
I wished that I had your confidence matey, but I pray that you do, young fellow. Yet living in San Francisco, and only some 1000 mile driving distance from Yellowstone Park, the odds might seem to be against you, but then the Lord works in wonderful mysterious ways.
Sorry, why against me? Oops, never mind, I saw the end. Wow. Trouble's, um, brewin.'

At 52 in March, I ain't young (but I'm confused for 38 all the time). But thanks.

I'm confident because I'm not afraid of god and I am 110% convinced that all that bible thumping end of the world stuff is way way off.

Would you do me a solid and not pray for me? I'd like my life and fate to be between me and god. We've got a good thing going, no third parties needed.

quote] In dream I saw the heavens ablaze with balls of fire ... <snip> [/quote]
What is all this about? Is this a private vision? a poem? a hallucination? creative writing? an acid trip? a delusional break? preaching to a "young man" in trouble? a cry for help?
Are you saying you believe this? Do you realize that this is fringe stuff and you might want to run it by a cross section of theologians and psychologists, just to be sure? The Danielson Institute associated with the School of Theology at Boston University is such a place. Just some friendly advice.

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Post #48

Post by jedicri »

S-word wrote:If you wish to enter into a discussion on this topic, please feel free to do so, if not, I will continue using the Bible as the authoritative source whereby to challenge the false theology of the catholic church and her daughter bodies that were spawned by her false teachings.
You have not offered anything in the way of substantiating your claims. It is clear from the outset that you regard the Cathoilic Church and Her teachings as rubbish. Being a former Catholic, I find your lack of understanding quite surprising.

You claim the Bible is an authoritative source. Who has given this Bible its authoritativeness? You?

Christ established a Church, gave Her His authority and then the Church by virtue of this authority, wrote the NT Scriptures and canonized the Bible.

The Catholic Church canonized the Bible at the Council of Rome 382 A.D. presided by Pope Damasus.


Taken from another forum (credit to Roll Tide):
Beginning in the first century, we know that the Apostles were still continuing to write scripture up until the death of St. John, around 100 AD. While many Christian communities had access to the four Gospel accounts, many other New Testament scriptures were only available in select locations. Few groups had access to *everything* that's now available in the New Testament, because the persecution of the church made it difficult to get a hold of all of this content. Remember, there were underground Christian communities stretching from Egypt to France, and any outside contact risked discovery. In any case, the first couple of generations of Christians actually had something BETTER than the Bible anyway... they had the living Apostles to teach them, and their immediate successors. (We have some of the writings of those first generation Christian leaders, btw, such as St. Ignatius and St. Clement, and they are KEY historical sources that reveal how early Christians practiced the faith and how they interpreted what scripture they had.) Nevertheless, most Christian beliefs were passed down through ORAL tradition, just as the Old Testament was a compilation of ORAL tradition that was generally only written down MUCH later (with some exceptions).

By the second century, the persecution of Christianity had died down just a little with the emergence of the Five Good Emperors. Nevertheless, Christianity was still in hiding. The bigger problem beginning to occur was the fractioning of Christianity into seriously heretical subgroups due to their isolation and the inability to agree on precisely what really WAS scripture! The lack of communication was causing radically differing beliefs to crop up in some of the more isolated locations. These were not small differences, like we see between Catholics and Protestants today, but heresies so great that almost all modern Christian groups would condemn them, such as Gnosticism, Docetism, and Arianism.

What were these heresies? Well, Gnosticism believed that the Bible contained "hidden wisdom" that only an elite scholarly few could interpret. They also added many, many forged books into their particular canon of the Bible. We know that they are forged because we can demonstrate that most were written at *least* 100 or more years after the books of the Bible that we use today. For this sect, the ONLY way to heaven was to crack the Bible code, and there was no use for the saving power of Jesus OR morality in this version of Christianity. ANYONE from Mother Teresa to Adolf Hitler was eligible to make it to heaven, if they could JUST crack that hidden code. (It's fairly obvious why this sect was condemned.) Docetists often went hand-in-hand with the Gnostics. They believed God was SO great, that he could NEVER humiliate Himself by becoming an actual human, because everything physical of this world (the flesh) was purely evil. In this version of Christianity, God had made a horribly flawed and imperfect world that was essentially a mistake. Only things from heaven, or the spiritual realm, were good. So... God created the *illusion* of Jesus being human, but He wasn't actually. It was just an apparition of God, and not a separate person. Further, because it was actually God, the death of Jesus on the Cross was a mere illusion that had NO real meaning. God created the *illusion* of suffering, but did not actually suffer Himself. Therefore, according to Docetists, we never really obtained salvation. Again, it should seem obvious why this belief was deemed heretical. The final and most problematic heresy was Arianism. This was a belief that was almost *opposite* of the Docetists. They believed that Jesus was simply a *normal* human being that God adopted as His Son. He had no special powers, aside from being a prophet. Essentially, the Arians completely deny the Trinity. They are similar in their beliefs about the nature of God to Jews, Muslims, and Jehovah's Witnesses. It took the Catholic (Catholic, of course, meaning "universal") Council of Nicea in 325 AD, which was a council that included representatives from all Christian groups worldwide, to declare this belief false.

Well, Christians had to take measures to counter their own rising factionalism. Remember that at this time many people already considered Christians just a tiny sect of an already small religion - Judaism. Were Christianity to fracture even more, it would eventually disintegrate from a lack of any core beliefs or structure. Fortunately, the Apostles had appointed bishops, presbyters (priests), and deacons as their immediate successors. Bishops especially took on an important role, because they would travel to meet with other bishops, share scriptures with each other that other regions might not yet be aware of, look after the well-being of their communities (and ask for help from others if necessary), and just generally kept each other on the same page. This universal church almost immediately became known as "catholic", referring to the universal beliefs that all Christians had to acknowledge in order to be genuinely considered Christian. To NOT be Catholic was to be Gnostic, Docetist, or Arian (among other sects). Again, these are all groups that would be widely condemned even by Protestants today. Without the crucial work of these early bishops, the Christian church might have fragmented out of existence.

Now, although all of the books in the canon that we presently use now existed, there was WIDE debate over which to use. A LARGE number of communities rejected Revelations, for example, along with a few others we currently use. MOST used the Didache, the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Epistle of Barnabas, which are books no longer considered scripture today. There were other categories of books as well. Some were clear forgeries that consisted of poorly written folk tales. For example, the Infancy Gospel of Thomas purported to discuss the childhood of Jesus, complete with temper tantrums and a Jesus who routinely killed his schoolteacher out of anger with His powers, and then had to routinely raise him from the dead when an angry Joseph would come scold him. Some books, like the Didache, were *legitimate* historical Christian books that taught a LOT about how to practice Christianity, but were not necessary for salvation, and were NOT considered inspired. Still others were the forgeries of the groups such as the Gnostics. The problem with these is that some of them *seemed* genuine, and so some, like the Gospel of Thomas, were used by Christian communities throughout this period. Although some books, like the four Gospels, were pretty settled, MUCH debate remained about the rest. The leadership of the bishops and their oral knowledge, passed down from the Apostles, still seemed the best way to determine Christian doctrine.

When we get to the third century, the persecutions reach their peak. Several emperors persecute Christians mercilessly, including Diocletian. This is the period where you REALLY start seeing people being thrown to the lions in the arena, for example. Some consensus had arisen over the Gospels and most of the Letters of Paul, but the other letters and Revelation still remained in doubt (as does the authenticity of one of Paul's letters). The Didache, Shepherd of Hermas, and Epistle of Barnabas were generally still used by most Christians as if they were scripture. However, Arianism was growing, and several Gnostic texts were treated as if they were scripture, especially in Egypt, North Africa, and parts of the Middle East (most especially the Gospel of Thomas). Most Christians had at least HEARD of all of these books now, although they often weren't sure of which ones to use. This culminates at the beginning of the fourth century with Constantine and the Edict of Toleration. Finally, in 313, it was legal to be a Christian. The problem was... which TYPE of Christian. A consensus needed to be reached on precisely what were the MINIMUM beliefs necessary in order to call one's self a Christian. So, the Council of Nicea was called, and all the Christian bishops attended. They agreed to abide by the decisions of the council. This is where the Nicene Creed was developed, which formulates the basic beliefs of virtually all Christian groups today (whether they recognize the creed officially or not). Arianism was officially rejected, and most Arian bishops fell in line with the Catholic ones. STILL, however, there was NO Bible and no accepted canon, although it was now clear that this issue would have to be settled as well. The first step came when the Bishop of Rome (the pope) declared, for the first time, the canon of scripture that we see Catholics use today at the Council of Rome in 382 AD. Here is the actual decree:


"Likewise it has been said: Now indeed we must treat of the divine Scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun.The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis one book, Exodus one book, Leviticus one book, Numbers one book, Deuteronomy one book, Josue Nave one book, Judges one book, Ruth one book, Kings four books, Paraleipomenon two books, Psalms one book, Solomon three books, Proverbs one book, Ecclesiastes one book, Canticle of Canticles one book, likewise Wisdom one book, Ecclesiasticus one book (also known as Sirach). Likewise the order of the Prophets. Isaias one book, Jeremias one book (at this time, Baruch was lumped in with Jeremiah),with Ginoth, that is, with his lamentations, Ezechiel one book,Daniel one book, Osee one book, Micheas one book, Joel one book, Abdias one book, Jonas one book, Nahum one book, Habacuc one book, Sophonias one book, Aggeus one book, Zacharias one book, Malachias one book. Likewise the order of the histories. Job one book, Tobias one book (also known as Tobit),Esdras two books, Esther one book, Judith one book, Machabees two books. Likewise the order of the writings of the New and eternal Testament, which only the holy and Catholic Church supports. Of the Gospels, according to Matthew one book, according to Mark one book, according to Luke one book, according to John one book. The Epistles of Paul [the apostle] in number fourteen. To the Romans one, to the Corinthians two, to the Ephesians one, to the Thessalonians two, to the Galatians one, to the Phillipians one, to the Colossians one, to Timothy two, to Titus one, to Philemon one, to the Hebrews one. Likewise the Apocalypse of John, one book. And the Acts of the Apostles one book. Likewise the canonical epistles in number seven. Of Peter the Apostle two epistles, of James the Apostle one epistle, of John the Apostle one epistle, of another John, the presbyter, two epistles, of Jude the Zealut, the Apostle one epistle."
Pope Damasus (reign A.D. 366-384),Decree of Council of Rome, The Canon of Scripture(A.D. 382),in DEN,33


That decree was then confirmed by much of the rest of the Catholic Church at the regional Council of Hippo in 393 AD. The Catholic bishops were the ones that were keeping Christian doctrine on the same page. They were the ones that had to be turned to for a decision in the matter (and confirmed by the head of the church, the Bishop of Rome, the Pope). While certainly it was the Holy Spirit that inspired the scriptures, it was also the Holy Spirit that *inspired* the Catholic Church to compile the canon and make sure that the correct books were contained within:

"Besides the canonical Scriptures, nothing shall be read, in the church under the title of divine writings.'. The canonical books are:---Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, the four books of Kings, the two books of Paraleipomena (Chronicles), Job, the Psalms of David, the five books of Solomon (this includes Proverbs, Song of Songs, and Ecclesiastes, Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus), the twelve books of the (Minor) Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah (including Baruch), Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees. The books of the New Testament are:---the four Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, thirteen Epistles of S. Paul, one Epistle of S. Paul to the Hebrews, two Epistles of S. Peter, three Epistles of S. John, the Epistle of S. James, the Epistle of S. Jude, the Revelation of S. John. Concerning the confirmation of this canon, the transmarine Church shall be consulted."
Council of Hippo, Canon 36 (A.D. 393), in HCC,2:400

The decree was even FURTHER confirmed by the Catholic Church at the Third Council of Carthage in 397 AD:

"[It has been decided] that nothing except the Canonical Scriptures should be read in the church under the name of the Divine Scriptures. But the Canonical Scriptures are:Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paraleipomenon two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon (this includes Proverbs, Song of Songs, and Ecclesiastes, Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus), twelve books of the Prophets, Isaias, Jeremias (including Baruch), Daniel, Ezechiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees. Moreover, of the New Testament: Four books of the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles one book, thirteen epistles of Paul the Apostle, one of the same to the Hebrews, two of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude, the Apocalypse of John."
Council of Carthage III,Canon 47(A.D. 397),in DEN,39-40


Although a few people did express some doubts, the canon was not further challenged until the Reformation. In Catholicism, points of doctrine are not formally defined until they are challenged or under attack by some outside group. The Ecumenical Council of Florence reaffirmed the canon of scripture in 1442 as a constant teaching of the church for over 1000 years.

Finally, at the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church defined the canon of scripture INFALLIBLY so that it would never be challenged again. This does NOT mean that the church did not already hold to that canon of scripture. It simply means that it now felt the need to reaffirm it for all time.



Here is the decree of the Council of Trent in 1546:

Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures

"The sacred and holy, ecumenical, and general Synod of Trent,—lawfully assembled in the Holy Ghost, the Same three legates of the Apostolic See presiding therein,—keeping this always in view, that, errors being removed, the purity itself of the Gospel be preserved in the Church; which (Gospel), before promised through the prophets in the holy Scriptures, our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, first promulgated with His own mouth, and then commanded to be preached by His Apostles to every creature, as the fountain of all, both saving truth, and moral discipline; and seeing clearly that this truth and discipline are contained in the written books, and the unwritten traditions which, received by the Apostles from the mouth of Christ himself, or from the Apostles themselves, the Holy Ghost dictating, have come down even unto us, transmitted as it were from hand to hand; (the Synod) following the examples of the orthodox Fathers, receives and venerates with an equal affection of piety, and reverence, all the books both of the Old and of the New Testament—seeing that one God is the author of both —as also the said traditions, as well those appertaining to faith as to morals, as having been dictated, either by Christ's own word of mouth, or by the Holy Ghost, and preserved in the Catholic Church by a continuous succession.

And it has thought it meet that a list of the sacred books be inserted in this decree, lest a doubt may arise in any one's mind, which are the books that are received by this Synod. They are as set down here below:

Of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second.

Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle.

But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema. Let all, therefore, understand, in what order, and in what manner, the said Synod, after having laid the foundation of the Confession of faith, will proceed, and what testimonies and authorities it will mainly use in confirming dogmas, and in restoring morals in the Church."

This goes a long way at illustrating the KEY role that the Catholic Church, through the pope and its bishops, played in the formation of the canon of scripture.



Given the fact that the Catholic Church did indeed canonize the Bible from Her authority given to Her by Christ (Mt 16: 18-19), how does it follow that your claims that Catholicism's teachings are false?

Furthermore, it is written that the Church, not the Bible, is the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim 3: 15). How can you use the Bible to challenge the Catholic Church's teachings when as matter-of-fact, the Bible was not even around when the Apostles started to orally preach the Good News?

S-word
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Posts: 374
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 6:04 am

Post #49

Post by S-word »

[Slopeshoulser wrote].....Sorry, why against me? Oops, never mind, I saw the end. Wow. Trouble's, um, brewin.'

Can't understand what that sentence is all about

[Slopeshoulser wrote].....At 52 in March, I ain't young (but I'm confused for 38 all the time). But thanks.

Another sentence that seems to make no sense.

[Slopeshoulser wrote].....I'm confident because I'm not afraid of god and I am 110% convinced that all that bible thumping end of the world stuff is way way off.

And you keep believeing anything you want to believe matey, that's what free will is all about

[Slopeshoulser wrote].....Would you do me a solid and not pray for me? I'd like my life and fate to be between me and god. We've got a good thing going, no third parties needed.

Ah, would that every person in the world be true to their indwelling ancestral Father, and rely on him alone.

I don't pray for you in particular, you'll be judged on the life you live. I simply pray that no one has to experience the great tribulation that is coming, but what has happened in the past of the Omega, will happen in our future, although I am assured, by My indwelling Father, that "me and mine," will come through it, but I can't speak for you or others.

I ain’t never got a penny, always broke I must confess
And the few things that I’m forced to own If I lose em then I guess
I’ve lived without em once before, can live without em once agen
The only things I really needs is me solitude, me pad and pen.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not some mug what thinks that he can write
But anytime I calls me own, doesn’t matter, day or night
You’ll find me at me table, sittin here with pen in hand
Scribbling out some flaming rubbish and tryin to understand
How a man can sit here writtin words, and even without tryin
Jot down me thoughts then read em, and find all the lines is rhyming.

For instance, Just an hour ago, I’s sittin here and pondering
When from the north, then from the south, there comes this distant rumbling
And then me mind goes sorta blank and something moves me arm
And I thinks, now should I try and stop it? “Nah it never does no harm.
And words appear as I sit and write, not taking no great notice
Then I reads what’s written here below when me mind comes back in focus.

“To the north of us and to the south, the thunders peeled and the lightening flashed
While up above the sky was clear, not a single cloud hung in the air
The night was still, not a breath of breeze and starlight flickered through the trees
While all around, the wild storm surged, and what did you do? You got the urge
To sit and write this useless poem, when you should prepare for the coming storm.
So when you see the damage done by your apathy and stupor
You might just learn a thing or two that will help you in the future.�


Welll, it gets me mind a thinkin hey? I’m not one who turns his back
On a lesson from me teacher, Nah, me past has taught me that
And I thinks… well yea, there’s many folk, what live in many lands
Where conflicts rage around em, and it’s getting out of hand.
And they builds emselves an island, You know? A little dome of peace
Where they think the storm won’t hit em, like fools, they think they’re safe

But the storm clouds gather closer, then the lightening and the fire
Invade their dome of safety and they’ve got nowhere else to hide
So I makes meself a mental note, and thanks the spirit deep within
For his insight and his knowledge and for sharein his wisdom
And I now make preparation for the great storm soon to come
Oh, I know we can’t avoid it, but we’ll come through it, me and mum

You can keep your gold and silver, and all the diamonds in this land
Cos there comes a time in every life, and I don’t give a damn
How much gold or wealth you got, or what position what you’ve gained
They’ll be useless in that time of Stress, better if you’d filled your brain
With the wisdom of the ages, the most precious thing of all
Cos He’s the one what saves you mate, while all around ya, thousands fall,, By S-word



quote] In dream I saw the heavens ablaze with balls of fire ... <snip> [/quote]

[Slopeshoulser wrote].....What is all this about? Is this a private vision? a poem? a hallucination? creative writing? an acid trip? a delusional break? preaching to a "young man" in trouble? a cry for help?

Let it be to you whatever you wish it to be young fellow. You have already formed your own opinion anyway, and who am I to try to change your mind?

[Slopeshoulser wrote].....Are you saying you believe this?

Yep!

Slopeshoulder wrote].....Do you realize that this is fringe stuff and you might want to run it by a cross section of theologians and psychologists, just to be sure? The Danielson Institute associated with the School of Theology at Boston University is such a place. Just some friendly advice.

To far away for me young fellow, I live in North Queensland Australia. Anyways, best of luck to you matey, you're going to need it, if that's all that you are going to rely on to help you come through it, believe you me.

S-word
Scholar
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 6:04 am

Post #50

Post by S-word »

[jedicri wrote]…… the Bible was not even around when the Apostles started to orally preach the Good News?

[S-word’s response]…… The Bible was around for almost 1,500 years before the disciples began to write their epistles, in their attempts to prove that Jesus was the Messiah, who had been prophesied to come in the Bible, which the people in those days would check, to make sure that the words of the disciples were in accordance to the word of God as recorded in the Bible..

Tradition has it that about the year 100 AD, Clement of Rome was martyred by being cast into the sea tied to an anchor. Not much detail is known about Clement of Rome. The second Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians is admittedly a forgery, together with everything else in his name but the alleged First Epistle.

Knowing this, I must assume that the Clement that you refer to in your post is Clement of Alexandria.

In Alexandria, by the second century, Docetism, the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being, had all but theoretically been stamped out.

But still, there persisted the belief that their false Jesus, although seen as a sort of human being, did not have our normal bodily needs, such as eating, drinking and having to go to the toilet, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: “It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion.� Satan must have had some trouble trying to tempt this false Jesus of theirs into turning stones into bread.

Their Jesus was not the Jesus as taught by the apostles, but that other Jesus, taught by the Anti-Christ, who unlike we mere HUMAN BEINGS, did not need to eat, drink, or go to the toilet, as was taught by one of the great teachers that the members of the universal church, love to use as one of their authorities when trying to defend one of their false doctrines.

Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother’s vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it.

Down to the 17th century Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clement's life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly suspect.

"ERRONEOUS--HIGHLY SUSPECT," Yes, you can say that again----. But by then the falsehood was firmly established and its seeds had taken root in all the nations of the world. The Lord now has need of some good gardeners, to help root out those noxious weeds.

Did you happen to watch TV on Christmas Eve, and see the broom smacking brawl between the two religious factions in the church of the Nativity?

The Church of the Nativity is the oldest Church in the Holy Land still in use. The first Church was built over the Grotto of the Nativity in the 4th century A.D under the patronage of the Roman Emperor Constantine’s mother Helena. As the tradition of the church of Constantine teaches as biblical truth, the Milk Grotto, a short distance from the church of the nativity, is where Mary was supposed to have hid while Herod’s solders were slaughtering the innocents in the streets of Bethlehem of Judaea, and suckled the baby Jesus to keep it quite, before her escape to Egypt.

According to the doctrines of the church of Constantine, Mary spilt some milk while feeding the baby Jesus and that milk turned the stones in that area white, and today, women who have nursing problems, or couples who are infertile, can go there and pray to their heavenly goddess, who is the mother of their eternal and immortal god, who was the co-creator of the cosmos and who came to earth as their immortal and eternal god, where he entered the womb of some supposed human virgin, where there, he created a human like body for himself, which was not of the seed of Adam from who every human being who has ever, or will ever walk this earth originated; in which body, the alien hybrid walked the earth disguised as a human being.

It is believed by those poor deceived souls of the church of Constantine and other denominations who have been sucked in by her lies, that if those people care to purchase a small bag of the white powder from those rocks, which had magically turned white by the mother’s milk of Mary, that white powder has the magical power to heal their problems.

This is in total contradiction to the truth as revealed in God’s word. But if they, who are so gullible as to believe the unbiblical teaching of the bride of the anti-christ, that a mortal virgin conceived in her womb the son of an alien life form that pre-dated the creation of the cosmos, and the human like body of the son of that alien, which was forming in the womb of their so-called virgin, was actually an eternal and immortal god, who himself was the co-creator of the cosmos, then they will believe any rubbish that she is prepared to dish out for them.

Matthew is not concerned as to where the holy family actually lived, only that the child was born in Bethlehem of Judaea, he then skips forward in time, to speak of the wise men, who are believed to have been Astronomer/Astrologers from Mesopotamia, who had seen the star in the east, that they believed had heralded the birth of the promised Messianic King of Israel, and even if they had left their own country that very day, to travel to Jerusalem, we know from biblical records that it would have taken them some four months to reach there, and by then, the family, according to Luke, had returned to their home in Nazareth.

Ezra 7: 8-9; “They left Babylonia on the first day of the first month, and with God’s help they arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the fifth month.�

Luke is more concerned with the approximate 2 month period that the family was in Bethlehem of Judaea. He speaks of the birth of the child in the stable of an Inn, and the visit of the shepherds, who were out in the fields, where they would not have been in the middle of winter of late December, where they saw the baby in the manger wrapped in swaddling cloth etc.

Luke 2: 21; A week after Jesus was born he was circumcised according to the law of Moses. Then came the Time, for Mary to perform the ceremony of purification
as the law of Moses commanded.

(Leviticus 12: 3-4; “On the eighth day the male child shall be circumcised. Then it will be thirty three days more until she is ritually clean from her loss of blood and then can she enter the tent/temple and perform the ceremony of purification.)

After she had performed everything “According to the law of Moses� some 33 days after the baby was circumcised, they returned to the home of Mary in Nazareth, to where the wise would later travel some months later, and shower the young child with gifts, which included Gold. Leviticus 12: 8; poor families who cannot afford a lamb shall bring two doves or two pigeons one of which, would be used as the burnt offering etc.

As it has already been stated, even if the wise men had left their country in the east on the day that they had first sighted the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, which is more that highly unlikely, they would not have reached Jerusalem until at least two month after Mary had returned to Nazareth.

There is no mention of the star guiding the wise men from their country of origin to Jerusalem, but after they had left Herod, who had told them that they might find the child in Bethlehem of Judaea, the star that they believed was the same star that they had seen while in the east, appeared once again, And O, what Joy was theirs, then the star guides them, not to the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea, but to the “HOUSE� in which the child and his parent lived, in the town of Nazareth, which is only about 2 miles from Bethlehem of Galilee.

According to the teachings of the universal church of the non-christian and theoretically illiterate king Constantine, which was established in 325 AD, some 300 years after the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was established in Jerusalem, Mary who was supposedly given these gifts which included gold, Frankincense and the very expensive myrrh, while still in Bethlehem of Judea, before she presented her offering in the temple at Jerusalem, must have pretended to be too poor to buy a lamb for a burnt offering, which was the offering required from those who could afford it. How deceptive would that have been, but then, that’s what the church of Constantine would have you believe, about the mother of Jesus.

In Luke, you will find no mention of Jesus the "young child", or of the wise men, who came to Israel near on a year after his birth. As Luke is concerned only with the time period when Jesus was still a "baby"; then he jumps to the period when he was about 12 years old, where he confounded his parents at that tine, who were Mary, and Cleophas/Alpheaus, the carpenter, who is the father of James the younger, who is the brother of Jesus, who said to his parents, who knew who his biological father was, “Why did you have to search for me, surely you knew that I had to be in My Father’s house?" That statement gobsmacked his parents. It went right over the head of Mary, who couldn’t understand what her son was on about, but she stored the memory of that moment in her mind.

Matthew 2: 7; So Herod called the wise men to a secret meeting and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. Matthew 2: 16; When Herod realised that the wise men from the East had tricked him, he was furious. He gave orders to kill all the boys in (Northern) Bethlehem and its neighbourhood who were two years old and younger—this was done in accordance with what he had learned from the visitors about the time when the star first appeared.

If the age of the children who were to be slaughtered was two years and below, which age was determined in accordance with what he had learned from the visitors about the time when the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, first appeared. How long before Herod gave the command to kill the innocents, had the wise men seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus?

You do realise that they was another town called Bethlehem in those days, which town today is called “Beitlahm� and it was situated in the district around Nazareth and the beautiful Hellenistic city of Sepphorus, that suffered so much damage in the great riots of the peasants in 4 BC, shortly before Herod died after a failed suicide attempt, which I believe was an option given to him by Caesar Augustus.

When one of Herod the Greats heirs, Herod Antipas returned from Rome in the spring of 3 B.C., after the "Will" of his father had been ratified by Augustus, he rebuilt Sepphorus as his chosen city for ruling over Galilee. I very much doubt that the true reason for the uprising of the peasants in the district of Bethlehem of Galilee would have been recorded by the Roman historians of that day.

You may continue to believe the world wide teaching of the Anti-christ, or you can fight to win the victory over this world, and be invited to sit beside of Brother Jesus, in the throne of Godhead to the most High in the creation, the throne of our Father, who is the Father of Jesus, the throne of our God who is the God of our brother Jesus. See John 20: 17.

First, "MAN" (man (�נוש� : 'enosh') in English, mortal human beings) was created a little lower than the angels, then he is crowned with glory and all creation is placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN (man (�נוש� : 'enosh) in English, mortal human beings) WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY, we have not yet seen this happen. But we have seen Jesus, the first born from the dead, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by our heavenly Father and saviour, and now sits in His heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites those, who win the victory also, to sit with him in our Father’s throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which, according to Paul, includes even the angels, will bow at their feet.

Did the church of Constantine deceive you into believing that the wise men, who are believed to have been Astronomer/Astrologers from Mesopotamia, got from Mesopotamia to Bethlehem in a couple of days, to see the baby Jesus in the manger wrapped in swaddling cloth, (And not in the HOUSE, where the Bible says they found the Young Child) where, immediatly after they (The wise men) had been warned to return home, Herods men began to slaughter all the innocents in Bethlehem of Judaea, while Mary remained hidden in the milk grotto turning the rocks white with her spilt milk? Or so Helena, the mother of Constantine would have you believe.

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