WHO WAS THIS MARY ?

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Rescued by Mary
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WHO WAS THIS MARY ?

Post #1

Post by Rescued by Mary »

WHO WAS THIS MARY ?


Who was this Mary? She was a female activist; a scheming adventuress, who in the words of Bernardino of Siena (1380 – 1444), ‘seduced, deceived, and I might even say wounded God, with I do not know what caresses and promises’, that she might secure humanity’s salvation.

Consider with me all the fascination and dangerous power of womanliness we experience in considering the Incarnation.


There is a marvelous resemblance between Mother and Son.

The voice of the Son and the Mother is but one, as they have but one heart, one soul, and one mind.

"I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures." [Eccl. 24: 5]

God the Father knew Mary from all eternity, just as sure as He knew the Son.

The Holy name of Mary was not unknown to the world, even centuries before it was revealed to men at the time it should be given to our holy infant, and even from the beginning of the world. Mary. Mary. Mary.

This beautiful and magnificent name was birthed from the heart of God from the foundations of the world.

Greek and Latin historians will attest to the fact that in the year 780 a tombstone was discovered during the excavation of some walls in Thrace that revealed the following inscription: “Christ will be born of the virgin Mary. O sun, thou shalt see me again under the Emperor Constantine and the Empress Irene.� Many believe that this tomb belonged to Mercurius Trismegistus – better know as Plato. Whoever it was certainly lived before Christ and Mary.

There was a doctor of theology named, John de domo Villarii who was an eyewitness to the discovery of a man with a beard and very long hair, a very large man, who was found in the valley of Josaphat in a sub-terranean tomb; this is all recorded by John Leyden the Carmelite in his chronicle of the Counts of Holland in 1374. Remarkable the body was in tack and the tablet inscription said the following in Hebrew; “I am Seth, the third son of Adam. I believe in Jesus Christ, Son of God, and in the Virgin Mary, His Mother, who shall be born of my race.�


Oh Mary, How glorious and admirable is thy name!

Mary – “God born of our race,� as St. Ambrose, says. He would have us understand that there must be a Mother of God in this Royal race from which God Himself willed to be born, as a Son.

Mary – “ Lady of the Sea,� says St. Athanasius, “the Mother and the Son have the same power.�

Mary – St. Ephrem tells us that Mary signifies, “illuminated, illuminator, illuminating.�


Oh, Mary! Light of God – Doctor, Mistress of the Sea, of the people – Mistress of the Apostles – Mistress of piety and truth. Mary! Mouth of the Church – sublime and elevated – the imitator of God by excellence...




Listen to Saint John Eudes:

“That same thought that the Eternal Father from all eternity had had, that His Son should be born of a virgin, is the principle of the Mother’s birth.�

“For the same heart and the same love of the Eternal Father which led Him to give us a Man-God, urged Him also to give us a Mother of God.�

“This Church will forever possess the heart of both Son and Mother in spite of the rage of hell�



Sola-Scriptura? How about Solo Faith-Sura! For in Her unwavering faith alone, was poised the remaining faith of all of humanity, as Christ’s lifeless body hung on a cross, before Mary.

The wonder of the sacrament of Mass is illustrated in this raw physical humanity, as Jesus is cut from the flesh of Mary. If we are the body of Christ, and He is the head, than Mary is the neck; and oh, how lovely she is! Beautiful to behold, caressed only by Christ!

If the bread and the wine are the Body and Blood of Christ – then Mary is the Chalice. How can we receive Communion, without embracing Mary? For it was Her womb that contained Him, and it was Mary from whom He received His flesh.




Oh Virgin Mary, my Mother, Your earthliness in the drama of redemption; is it surpassed by Your role as Queen of the Universe?


Oh, Immaculate Heart of Mary, I pray thee, petition the Sacred Heart of Thy Divine Son, that I may find grace in His sight, and be converted.



RbM

The Tongue
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Re: WHO WAS THIS MARY ?

Post #2

Post by The Tongue »

Rescued by Mary wrote: WHO WAS THIS MARY ?


Who was this Mary? She was a female activist; a scheming adventuress, who in the words of Bernardino of Siena (1380 – 1444), ‘seduced, deceived, and I might even say wounded God, with I do not know what caresses and promises’, that she might secure humanity’s salvation.

Consider with me all the fascination and dangerous power of womanliness we experience in considering the Incarnation.


There is a marvelous resemblance between Mother and Son.

The voice of the Son and the Mother is but one, as they have but one heart, one soul, and one mind.

"I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures." [Eccl. 24: 5]

God the Father knew Mary from all eternity, just as sure as He knew the Son.

The Holy name of Mary was not unknown to the world, even centuries before it was revealed to men at the time it should be given to our holy infant, and even from the beginning of the world. Mary. Mary. Mary.

This beautiful and magnificent name was birthed from the heart of God from the foundations of the world.

Greek and Latin historians will attest to the fact that in the year 780 a tombstone was discovered during the excavation of some walls in Thrace that revealed the following inscription: “Christ will be born of the virgin Mary. O sun, thou shalt see me again under the Emperor Constantine and the Empress Irene.� Many believe that this tomb belonged to Mercurius Trismegistus – better know as Plato. Whoever it was certainly lived before Christ and Mary.

There was a doctor of theology named, John de domo Villarii who was an eyewitness to the discovery of a man with a beard and very long hair, a very large man, who was found in the valley of Josaphat in a sub-terranean tomb; this is all recorded by John Leyden the Carmelite in his chronicle of the Counts of Holland in 1374. Remarkable the body was in tack and the tablet inscription said the following in Hebrew; “I am Seth, the third son of Adam. I believe in Jesus Christ, Son of God, and in the Virgin Mary, His Mother, who shall be born of my race.�


Oh Mary, How glorious and admirable is thy name!

Mary – “God born of our race,� as St. Ambrose, says. He would have us understand that there must be a Mother of God in this Royal race from which God Himself willed to be born, as a Son.

Mary – “ Lady of the Sea,� says St. Athanasius, “the Mother and the Son have the same power.�

Mary – St. Ephrem tells us that Mary signifies, “illuminated, illuminator, illuminating.�


Oh, Mary! Light of God – Doctor, Mistress of the Sea, of the people – Mistress of the Apostles – Mistress of piety and truth. Mary! Mouth of the Church – sublime and elevated – the imitator of God by excellence...




Listen to Saint John Eudes:

“That same thought that the Eternal Father from all eternity had had, that His Son should be born of a virgin, is the principle of the Mother’s birth.�

“For the same heart and the same love of the Eternal Father which led Him to give us a Man-God, urged Him also to give us a Mother of God.�

“This Church will forever possess the heart of both Son and Mother in spite of the rage of hell�



Sola-Scriptura? How about Solo Faith-Sura! For in Her unwavering faith alone, was poised the remaining faith of all of humanity, as Christ’s lifeless body hung on a cross, before Mary.

The wonder of the sacrament of Mass is illustrated in this raw physical humanity, as Jesus is cut from the flesh of Mary. If we are the body of Christ, and He is the head, than Mary is the neck; and oh, how lovely she is! Beautiful to behold, caressed only by Christ!

If the bread and the wine are the Body and Blood of Christ – then Mary is the Chalice. How can we receive Communion, without embracing Mary? For it was Her womb that contained Him, and it was Mary from whom He received His flesh.




Oh Virgin Mary, my Mother, Your earthliness in the drama of redemption; is it surpassed by Your role as Queen of the Universe?


Oh, Immaculate Heart of Mary, I pray thee, petition the Sacred Heart of Thy Divine Son, that I may find grace in His sight, and be converted.



RbM
[Rescued by Mary wrote]........"I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures." [Eccl. 24: 5]

In all my bibles, Solomon's satirical work, the Book of Ecclesiastes only has 12 chapters. What bible does your chapter 24 come from?

The Tongue
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Post #3

Post by The Tongue »

You ask the question, "WHO WAS MARY?"

IMHO, Mary was the mother of the biblical Jesus, and the grand-daughter of “The sonless Yehoshua,� who had three daughters, Joanna and Elizabeth (The two aunties of Mary) and the youngest daughter, Anna/Hanna (The mother of Mary.) Knowing that his Zadokian lineage would become extinct unless his daughters were placed with future husbands according to the Torah, Yehoshua married off his daughters to the elite of Israel.

Hanna/Anna, was betrothed to Alexander Helios (Heli) the son of Mark antony and Cleopatra, whose twin sister, also called Cleopatra, was married to Herod the Great and was the mother of Philip of Bethsaida.

Heli was of the tribe of Levi, being a descendant of Nathan the priest, the adopted son of king David, who was the biological son of Bathsheba and Uriah the Hittite, who became a member of the tribe of Levi by his marriage to Bathsheba the daughter of Ammiel, the son of Oded-edom, who was a descendant of Moses from the house of Levi, by his second wife Jepunniah the mother of Caleb the adopted son of Moses, and the daughter of Hobab the Kennite, one of the two fathers-in-law to Moses, see Judges 4: 11.

The Talmud states, "Whoever brings up an orphan in his home is regarded...as though the child had been born to him." (Sanhedrin 119b).� In other words, the adopted child is to be treated as a child born to the father of that house.

Which means, that Heli and his descendants were legitimate heirs to the throne of David. Heli, who died in 13 BC, by order of Herod the Great, had previously sired a son, who we know by the name “Joseph the Levite from Cyprus,� and Heli was to later sire the child Mary to Hanna the daughter of the high priest Yehoshua III.

It is said that after the death of her father (Heli) “a father of renown,� Mary was taken north into the land of Galilee where she was raised under the protection of the Jewish zealots whose aim it was, to throw off the yoke of Roman rule and establish a descendant of King David, back on the throne of Israel.

After the birth of Jesus, who was the biological son of Joseph ben Heli, Mary’s union to Joseph ben Jacob, was consummated and she later gave birth to Joseph the half brother to Jesus of who we know so little, as it would appear that he was brought up by his father in the town of Arimathea after Joseph ben Jacob had issued Mary with a bill of divorce.

It is this Joseph of Arimithea, who is believed to be the half brother of Jesus, who laid him in his “OWN FAMILY TOMB THAT HAD NEVER BEEN USED� which would suggest that the father of Joseph was still alive at that time.

While Jesus was still a small boy, Mary remarried a man named Cleophas who is also called Alpheaus. “Cleophas� is the Greek for, “Of a renowned father� while “Alpheaus� is the Aramaic of the same meaning, “Of a renowned father� Alpheaus who had two sons “Simeon and Jude� to a previous marriage was the biological father of James the younger of Mary's three biological sons, who Paul states is the brother of Jesus.

Matthew 13: 55; “Isn’t he the carpenter’s son? Isn’t Mary his Mother, and aren’t James, Joseph, simeon and Jude, his brothers?�

Jude the son of Alpheaus/Cleophas is also called Thomas=Tau’ma, the Aramiac for "TWIN", and is also called Didymus, which is the Greek for "TWIN", is Thomas Didymus Jude, the brother of Jesus and the son of the carpenter Alpheaus/Cleophas the second Husband Of Mary the mother of Jesus.

Knowing that in ART, Thomas Didymus Jude, the son of Alpheaus/Cleophas, is depicted with a carpenters rule and square, we must ask the question, "Who is the Carpenter to whom Mary was married at that time, when her family consisted of Jesus, James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Was it Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, who was her first husband, or was it Alpheaus/Cleophas the second husband of Mary and the Father of James the biological son of Mary and the youngest boy in the family, plus Simon and Jude, who is also called Judas Thomas, meaning twin?

In "The Acts of Thomas, sometime called by its full name, "The Acts of Judas Thomas," 2nd-3rd century CE, "The Apostles cast lots as to where they should go, and to Thomas, Judas, brother to Jesus fell India. Thomas was taken to King Goddophares the ruler of Indo-Pathian Kingdom as an architect and carpenter by Habban.�

Considering that we are still awaiting the first resurrection as recorded in the book of Revelation 20: 4-6, when they who will sit upon the thrones that have been prepared for them will be raised to life and rule with Christ (who is their heavenly compilation) for the Sabbath of one thousand years, which is "The Day of the Lord." The question is asked here, who were they who came out of their Graves that were opened on the day that Jesus was crucified and gave up his indwelling spirit and who entered the city Three Days later and showed themselves to many people?

Matthew 27: 52, And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that slept arose. Verse 53, And came out of the graves and three days later after the resurrection, they went into the Holy city and appeared to many.

One would expect the risen body to appear to the family of Jesus first, and this is exactly what we see.

The first to see one of they, who were of body of the risen Christ, the 365 day old unblemished Lamb of God, reborn on earth as Jesus who was offered up for our sake, (Jesus himself didn't die with the death of his body) were his Mother, Mary the wife of Cleophas and her “Adelphe� Mary Magdalene, who, although looking straight at him, thought that he was the gardener, until he spoke her name.

The next to who one of the risen body of Christ appeared, were Cleophas who is also called Alpheas, who is the biological father of James the youngest of Mary's three biological sons, and James, as we know, was the first to sit on the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision, and Cleophas was the husband of Mary, who was walking to Emmaus with his son Simon, 'to another marriage,' who was to inherit the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision after his half brother, 'James the righteous,' was killed at the instigation of the same Sadducee sect that had his full brother Jesus killed.

Although Cleophas and Simon walked and talked with one of the risen body of Christ for some kilometres, they did not recognise him for who he was, until Simon saw the manner in which he broke the bread, Cleophas then returned to Jerusalem, where eleven of the disciples, which included Simon Peter and Simon the Patriot, who were cowering in a darkened room, the only one absent that evening when Jesus appeared in that dimly lit room in the form that they recognised as Jesus, was Thomas Jude another half brother of Jesus, who was called the Twin, although nowhere does the bible say that he was an actual twin or whether he just held a striking resemblance to someone else. But back to Cleophas, who said to the eleven, "He has risen, he appeared to Simon," who was of course Simon the brother of Jesus who succeeded ‘James the younger’ as the head of the church founded by Jesus.

Then there were the seven disciples who were fishing on Lake Galilee having no success at all, when someone on the bank told them to throw their net on the right side of the boat in which they caught 153 fishes, sitting down to eat with the person who had a fire prepared with fish on it and some bread, not one of the seven disciples of Jesus who had walked and talked with him, dared to ask who he was, but they understood that he was of the risen body of Christ. Even when he ascended up into heaven as a cloud, some of the 11 disciples doubted that it was he.

Perhaps Jude the son of Alpheaus/Cleophas was called the twin because he held such a striking resemblance to one with whom he shared a common father! As there are other instances in the New Testament, where an individual has three names, one in Hebrew, one in Greek, and one in Aramaic, Perhaps Cleophas “GREEK� and Alphaeus “ARAMAIC�, are one and the same as Joseph “HEBREW� the son of Alexander Helios, “A FATHER OF RENOWN?� Perhaps this is why Jude the son of the carpenter and brother of Jesus, was called, "THE TWIN."

The religious authorities of those days who had access to all the bills of divorce which were filed away in the temple in Jerusalem, were always looking for ways that they might trap Jesus according to his own teaching and then accuse him to the people, and it was after Jesus had been preaching that if a divorced person remarried while their original spouse was still alive, they were committing adultery. It was then that the hypocritical priests thought that they had the means whereby they could make Jesus appear to the people to have one law for himself and another for everyone else.

Bringing forward his mother, who was among the crowd who were listening to the great teacher who was setting Israel on fire, they said to Jesus in their most patronising voice, Teacher, this woman has been caught in the very act of adultery. (This was according to the new teaching of Jesus) In our law Moses commanded that such a woman must be stoned to death. Now, what do you say? They said this in order to trap Jesus and accuse him to the people.

Jesus knew what those hypocrites were up to, those hypocrites who thought nothing of stoning the innocent Stephen to death, were bound by the law of Moses to stone this woman to death if she had indeed been caught in the very act of sexual intercourse with a man other than He to who she was legally married at that time.

Jesus then turned the tables on them by saying, “He who is without sin may cast the first stone.�

Then he bent down and wrote something in the dust, Perhaps he may have written, “As ye judge, so shall ye be judged.� Most men in those days who had been given by Moses the right to issue their wives with a bill of divorce, had done so and according to the new teaching of Jesus would have been as guilty as the woman that they were accusing, and the hypocrites knowing full well that the woman had not broken the Law of Moses and was innocent of any crime according to their own teachings, they were forced to walk away with their tails between their legs, thereby admitting to the people that they were not without sin.

Jesus then turned to his mother and asked, “Is there no one left to condemn you?� No one Lord she answered. “Well then,� said Jesus, “I do not condemn you either. Go, but don’t sin again,� and it was for this reason that the mother of Jesus chose to remain separate from her husband Cleophas and his children, and the reason why, on the cross, Jesus entrusted his mother, “Mary the wife of Cleophas,� into the care of his beloved disciple John.

Although we know near to nothing about Joseph the half brother to Jesus, there is more that a greater probability that he was Joseph from Arimathea, who laid Jesus in his own FAMILY tomb that had never been uses, suggesting that His Father, the first husband of Mary, was still alive. It seem strange that in a book which is so condensed, one would bother to add the little bit of trivia, that the tomb in which Jesus was laid, was the FAMILY tomb of Joseph which had never been used, when saying, He was buried in a tomb close by, would have sufficed.

young John who was surnamed "MARK" which name means "Hammer, or The Hammerer," has been identified with young John the beloved disciple who was entrusted with the care of Mary the mother of Jesus who had surnamed him "Son of Thunder."

After the death of Jesus, Joseph the Levite from Cyprus, took his half sister Mary and young John who was surnamed "MARK" up into the land of Pamphilia, where in the town of Ephesus, the grave sites of Mary and John, can still be visited to this day.

If you wish to know more about the life of Mary the obedient hand maid to her indwelling ancestral spirit, who chose for her, the biological father of Jesus, in who were the genetic qualities of all the spirits of good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness after paying the blood price for their inherited sin, who were judged in the flesh as all are judged and were separated from the unrighteous dead and were gathered to the living evolving spirit of our ancestral Father Enoch, within the bosom of Abraham, over which spirits, death had no more power, then please feel free to ask.

jedicri
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Re: WHO WAS THIS MARY ?

Post #4

Post by jedicri »

The Tongue wrote:
Rescued by Mary wrote: WHO WAS THIS MARY ?


Who was this Mary? She was a female activist; a scheming adventuress, who in the words of Bernardino of Siena (1380 – 1444), ‘seduced, deceived, and I might even say wounded God, with I do not know what caresses and promises’, that she might secure humanity’s salvation.

Consider with me all the fascination and dangerous power of womanliness we experience in considering the Incarnation.


There is a marvelous resemblance between Mother and Son.

The voice of the Son and the Mother is but one, as they have but one heart, one soul, and one mind.

"I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures." [Eccl. 24: 5]

God the Father knew Mary from all eternity, just as sure as He knew the Son.

The Holy name of Mary was not unknown to the world, even centuries before it was revealed to men at the time it should be given to our holy infant, and even from the beginning of the world. Mary. Mary. Mary.

This beautiful and magnificent name was birthed from the heart of God from the foundations of the world.

Greek and Latin historians will attest to the fact that in the year 780 a tombstone was discovered during the excavation of some walls in Thrace that revealed the following inscription: “Christ will be born of the virgin Mary. O sun, thou shalt see me again under the Emperor Constantine and the Empress Irene.� Many believe that this tomb belonged to Mercurius Trismegistus – better know as Plato. Whoever it was certainly lived before Christ and Mary.

There was a doctor of theology named, John de domo Villarii who was an eyewitness to the discovery of a man with a beard and very long hair, a very large man, who was found in the valley of Josaphat in a sub-terranean tomb; this is all recorded by John Leyden the Carmelite in his chronicle of the Counts of Holland in 1374. Remarkable the body was in tack and the tablet inscription said the following in Hebrew; “I am Seth, the third son of Adam. I believe in Jesus Christ, Son of God, and in the Virgin Mary, His Mother, who shall be born of my race.�


Oh Mary, How glorious and admirable is thy name!

Mary – “God born of our race,� as St. Ambrose, says. He would have us understand that there must be a Mother of God in this Royal race from which God Himself willed to be born, as a Son.

Mary – “ Lady of the Sea,� says St. Athanasius, “the Mother and the Son have the same power.�

Mary – St. Ephrem tells us that Mary signifies, “illuminated, illuminator, illuminating.�


Oh, Mary! Light of God – Doctor, Mistress of the Sea, of the people – Mistress of the Apostles – Mistress of piety and truth. Mary! Mouth of the Church – sublime and elevated – the imitator of God by excellence...




Listen to Saint John Eudes:

“That same thought that the Eternal Father from all eternity had had, that His Son should be born of a virgin, is the principle of the Mother’s birth.�

“For the same heart and the same love of the Eternal Father which led Him to give us a Man-God, urged Him also to give us a Mother of God.�

“This Church will forever possess the heart of both Son and Mother in spite of the rage of hell�



Sola-Scriptura? How about Solo Faith-Sura! For in Her unwavering faith alone, was poised the remaining faith of all of humanity, as Christ’s lifeless body hung on a cross, before Mary.

The wonder of the sacrament of Mass is illustrated in this raw physical humanity, as Jesus is cut from the flesh of Mary. If we are the body of Christ, and He is the head, than Mary is the neck; and oh, how lovely she is! Beautiful to behold, caressed only by Christ!

If the bread and the wine are the Body and Blood of Christ – then Mary is the Chalice. How can we receive Communion, without embracing Mary? For it was Her womb that contained Him, and it was Mary from whom He received His flesh.




Oh Virgin Mary, my Mother, Your earthliness in the drama of redemption; is it surpassed by Your role as Queen of the Universe?


Oh, Immaculate Heart of Mary, I pray thee, petition the Sacred Heart of Thy Divine Son, that I may find grace in His sight, and be converted.



RbM
[Rescued by Mary wrote]........"I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures." [Eccl. 24: 5]

In all my bibles, Solomon's satirical work, the Book of Ecclesiastes only has 12 chapters. What bible does your chapter 24 come from?
It's from Ecclesiasticus 24:5.

The Tongue
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Post #5

Post by The Tongue »

[jedicri wrote]......."I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures." is from Ecclesiasticus. 24: 5]

In "THE APOCRYPHA AND PSEUDEPIGRAPHA OF THE OLD TESTAMENT" By R. H. Charles.

In the Book of Ben Sirach, it is 24: 3; in which the words; "I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures." are recorded. Which is in reference to "WISDOM" and has nothing to do with Mary, who was the daughter of Alexander Helious, (Heli) and Anna the youngest daughter of Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was the high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC.

It was her half brother Joseph the son of Heli, who was the biological father of Jesus, and this Joseph, should not be confused with Joseph ben Jacob, who had no sexual contact with Mary until after the birth of the first of her three biological sons.

jedicri
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Post #6

Post by jedicri »

The Tongue wrote: [jedicri wrote]......."I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures." is from Ecclesiasticus. 24: 5]

In "THE APOCRYPHA AND PSEUDEPIGRAPHA OF THE OLD TESTAMENT" By R. H. Charles.

In the Book of Ben Sirach, it is 24: 3; in which the words; "I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures." are recorded. Which is in reference to "WISDOM" and has nothing to do with Mary, who was the daughter of Alexander Helious, (Heli) and Anna the youngest daughter of Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was the high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC.

It was her half brother Joseph the son of Heli, who was the biological father of Jesus, and this Joseph, should not be confused with Joseph ben Jacob, who had no sexual contact with Mary until after the birth of the first of her three biological sons.
Incorrect.

You, like many unfortunately, misunderstand Matthew 1:25 (Joseph knew her "not until")

Matt. 1:25 - this verse says Joseph knew her "not until ("heos", in Greek)" she bore a son. Some Protestants argue that this proves Joseph had relations with Mary after she bore a son. This is an erroneous reading of the text because "not until" does not mean "did not...until after." "Heos" references the past, never the future. Instead, "not until" she bore a son means "not up to the point that" she bore a son. This confirms that Mary was a virgin when she bore Jesus. Here are other texts that prove "not until" means "not up to the point that":

Matt. 28:29 - I am with you "until the end of the world." This does not mean Jesus is not with us after the end of the world.

Luke 1:80 - John was in the desert "up to the point of his manifestation to Israel." Not John "was in the desert until after" his manifestation.

Luke 2:37 - Anna was a widow "up to the point that" she was eighty-four years old. She was not a widow after eighty-four years old.

Luke 20:43 - Jesus says, "take your seat at my hand until I have made your enemies your footstool." Jesus is not going to require the apostles to sit at His left hand after their enemies are their footstool.

1 Tim. 4:13 - "up to the point that I come," attend to teaching and preaching. It does not mean do nothing "until after" I come.

Gen. 8:7 - the raven flew back and forth "up to the point that" [until] the waters dried from the earth. The raven did not start flying after the waters dried.

Gen. 28:15 - the Lord won't leave Jacob "up to the point that" he does His promise. This does not mean the Lord will leave Jacob afterward.

Deut. 34:6 - but "up to the point of today" no one knows Moses' burial place. This does not mean that "they did not know place until today."

2 Sam. 6:23 - Saul's daughter Micah was childless "up to the point" [until] her death. She was not with child after her death.

1 Macc. 5:54 - not one was slain "up to the point that" they returned in peace. They were not slain after they returned in peace.

The Tongue
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Post #7

Post by The Tongue »

[Jedicri wrote]..........Matt. 1:25 - this verse says Joseph knew her "not until ("heos", in Greek)" she bore a son. Some Protestants argue that this proves Joseph had relations with Mary after she bore a son. This is an erroneous reading of the text because "not until" does not mean "did not...until after." "Heos" references the past, never the future. Instead, "not until" she bore a son means "not up to the point that" she bore a son. This confirms that Mary was a virgin when she bore Jesus. Here are other texts that prove "not until" means "not up to the point that":

Nope! All that confirms is the fact that Matthew reveals that Joseph ben Jacob, the husband of Mary, is not the father of Jesus, and that Luke is correct in stating that it was supposed by the people who knew the family, that Joseph ben Heli, the half brother to Mary was the actual biological father of Jesus.

[Jedicri wrote]..........Matt. 28:29 - I am with you "until the end of the world." This does not mean Jesus is not with us after the end of the world.

Luke 1:80 - John was in the desert "up to the point of his manifestation to Israel." Not John "was in the desert until after" his manifestation.

Luke 2:37 - Anna was a widow "up to the point that" she was eighty-four years old. She was not a widow after eighty-four years old.


And what makes you think that Anna the 84 year old daughter of Phanuel from the tribe of Asher, who nursed the baby Jesus 41 days after his birth, was Hanna the mother of the 14 year old Mary who had just given birth to Jesus? Hanna/Anna was the youngest of the three daughters of Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was the high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC, revealing that Hanna the mother of Mary was of the tribe of Levi.

Of her elder sister Elizabeth, it is written in Luke 1: 5; that Elizabeth, the wife of Zechariah, was of the daughters of Levi, and yet you would have us believe that the mother of Mary was Anna the 84 year old daughter of Phanuel from the tribe of Asher.

We know that Jesus was some 3 to 6 months younger than John the Baptist, who was born of Elizabeth at a very old age, so I would love to see the evidence that would confirm your belief, that Anna who nursed the baby Jesus in 6 BC, was the daughter of a woman by the name Phaneul from the tribe of Asher, who was a wife to Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was the high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC.

It is said that Jehoshua, the grandfather of Mary died 3 years before her birth. If his death was the end of his period as High priest in 23 BC, this would mean that Mary was born in 20 BC, and as her father Alexander Helios, also called Heli, an heir to the throne of David, was murdered in 13 BC, at the command of Herod the Great, who saw him as a threat to his ruler ship, and as Jesus was born in 6 BC, two years before the death of Herod in April of 4 BC, this would mean that Mary was 7 years old when her father Heli was murdered and 14 years old when she gave birth to Jesus, and her mother Hanna, would have been a widow for seven years at the time that Mary took her baby to the Temple in Jerusalem, to perform the ceremony of purification which, according to the law of Moses, had to be performed 33 day after the child had been circumcised 8 days after its birth.

I would love to find the evidence to support your belief, but alas so far it has evaded me. But perhaps you were not suggesting that the old Anna who nursed the baby Jesus in the Temple was the Anna, who is the mother of Mary. O well, what has be written has been written.

[Jedicri wrote]..........Luke 20:43 - Jesus says, "take your seat at my hand until I have made your enemies your footstool." Jesus is not going to require the apostles to sit at His left hand after their enemies are their footstool.

Nah! You’ve got that one wrong mate. Luke 20: 43; is in reference to the words of King David, which are found in the book of Psalms, where King David says; “The Lord (Who I Am, the God of our ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) said to my Lord (Jesus) sit here at my right side until I put your enemies as a footstool under your feet.�

But Jesus does invite all his brothers and sisters who are able to win the victory over the ruler of this world, to sit beside him in our heavenly Fathers throne of Godhead to the entire creation, see Revelation 3: 21.

[Jedicri wrote]..........1 Tim. 4:13 - "up to the point that I come," attend to teaching and preaching. It does not mean do nothing "until after" I come.

Gen. 8:7 - the raven flew back and forth "up to the point that" [until] the waters dried from the earth. The raven did not start flying after the waters dried.

Gen. 28:15 - the Lord won't leave Jacob "up to the point that" he does His promise. This does not mean the Lord will leave Jacob afterward.

Deut. 34:6 - but "up to the point of today" no one knows Moses' burial place. This does not mean that "they did not know place until today."

2 Sam. 6:23 - Saul's daughter Micah was childless "up to the point" [until] her death. She was not with child after her death.

1 Macc. 5:54 - not one was slain "up to the point that" they returned in peace. They were not slain after they returned in peace.


OK! We’ve had enough of that rubbish. Every one knows that it was not Joseph ben Jacob, who was the biological Father of Jesus. But those who have not been deceived by the false teaching that Jesus was supposed to have been born of some supposed ever virgin, know that Joseph ben Heli, the half brother to Mary was the biological father of Jesus according to the Holy Scriptures.

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