Apostatized From Rome

A place to discuss Catholic topics and issues

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
WebersHome
Guru
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 24 times

Apostatized From Rome

Post #1

Post by WebersHome »

[font=Georgia]-
My mom had me baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944;
and when old enough; enrolled me in catechism where I eventually
completed First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

My aunt and uncle were Catholics, their son is a Catholic, one of my half
brothers is now a semi retired Friar. My father-in-law was a Catholic, as was
my mother-in-law. Everybody alive on my wife's side are Catholics; her
aunts and uncles, and her cousins. My sister-in-law was a nun for a number
of years before falling out with the hierarchy that controlled her order.

I have things to thank the Church for. It instilled within me an unshakable
confidence in the Holy Bible as a reliable authority in all matters pertaining
to faith and practice. It also instilled within me a trust in the integrity of
Jesus Christ. Very early in my youth; I began to believe that Christ knew
what he was talking about and meant what he said.

I was very proud to be affiliated with Roman Catholicism, and confident as
all get out that it is the one true Christian religion. Some Catholics see red
whenever the Church is criticized and/or critiqued, but I never did. Some
Catholics see criticism and/or critique of the Church's beliefs and practices as
hatred for Catholics. I have never understood that mentality.

Ironically, one of the Church's enemies, the Jehovah's Witnesses, sometimes
react the same way when somebody criticizes and/or critiques the Watch
Tower Society. For some odd reason, it translates in their minds as hatred
for Jehovah's Witnesses. I think some people have trouble telling the
difference between a sport and a sport's fans; if you know what I mean.

Oddly, though I was confident that the Bible is a reliable authority in all
matters pertaining to faith and practice; I had never actually sat down and
read it. A co-worker in a metal shop where I worked as a welder in 1968
suggested that I buy one and see for myself what it says.

Everything went smoothly till I got to the New Testament, and in no time at
all I began to realize that Rome does not always agree with the Holy Bible;
nor does it always agree with Christ. Well; that was unacceptable with me
because I was, and still am, confident that the Holy Bible is a reliable
authority in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, and that Christ knew
what he was talking about and meant what he said.

Well; I soon became confronted with a very serious decision. Do I continue
to follow Rome and its catechism, or do I switch to following Christ and the
Holy Bible?

The decision was a no-brainer due to my confidence in the Holy Bible as a
reliable authority in all matters pertaining to faith and practice; and due to
my trust in Jesus Christ's integrity-- that he knew what he was talking about
and meant what he said. So here I am today 48 years later still a Protestant.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==
[/font]

Bede
Apprentice
Posts: 185
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:43 am
Location: England

Re: True Story

Post #61

Post by Bede »

[Replying to post 60 by WebersHome]

Jesus said:
Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; And forgive us our debts, As we also have forgiven our debtors; And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. (Mt 6:9-13)

And you call this not much different from a Hindu mantra!

I think you have apostasised from the Christ as well as his Church.

God bless

Bede

User avatar
WebersHome
Guru
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: True Story

Post #62

Post by WebersHome »

Bede wrote:[font=Verdana]Jesus said: Pray then like this:[/font]
[font=Verdana] That is what Jesus actually said; now here's what the minds of some people
perceive what he said:

"Repeat after me"

Other minds perceive his instructions as:

"Say these words"

In point of fact, there is not one instance anywhere in the New Testament
where Christ, or one of his apostles, or anybody else; parroted Matt 6:9-13.

Let's say that that Christ meant for his disciples to recite Matt 6:9 13. Well,
his instructions in a previous verse would still forbid chanting it over and
over again.

†. Matt 6:7 . .When ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for
they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Had Jesus actually meant for his followers to parrot Matt 6:9-13, then the
epistle to Hebrews is way out of line where it instructs believers to come
boldly to the throne of grace.

As I said before: the Greek word for "boldly" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah)
which means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or
confidence.

Reciting the Nicene Creed, the Act Of Contrition, the Hail Mary, and the Our
Father are not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor out-spoken, nor
confident. Parroting is actually not much different than mindlessly chanting
Hindu mantras or bobbing back and forth while reading from a siddur like
one of those Jews at the Wailing Wall.

Christ described that kind of behavior as paganism. Is it becoming for
Christians to follow the lead of pagans instead of Christ's lead? Well; maybe
it's okay for Catholics, but not me; it is not in my best interests to promote
demonic beliefs and practices.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[/font]

Bede
Apprentice
Posts: 185
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:43 am
Location: England

Re: True Story

Post #63

Post by Bede »

[Replying to post 62 by WebersHome]

No-one has suggested, or does, "parrot" the words that Jesus gave us. You invent a false accusation and then proceed to build a giant straw man upon it, eventually insinuating that saying the words that Jesus gave us to be a form of paganism and demonic.

You need to seriously consider how far abandoning Christ's Church has taken you away from Him.

I can see that you have no intention of seeking the truth but prefer your comfortable cocoon of misunderstandings, half truths and errors.

So be it. I have done my part in trying to awaken you and point you towards the truth.

I wish you well.

God bless

Bede

User avatar
WebersHome
Guru
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 24 times

Living Water

Post #64

Post by WebersHome »

[font=Verdana]-
†. John 3:5 . . Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of
God without being born of water and Spirit.

There's really no mystery about the nature of the water Jesus spoke of with
Nicodemus because the Lord explained it in the very next chapter during his
conversation with the Samaritan woman. The water isn't for bathing, nor for
laundry, nor for baptism, nor for irrigation. No; it is specifically for drinking.

†. John 4:10 . . Jesus answered and said to her: If you knew the gift of God,
and who is saying to you "Give me a drink" you would have asked him and
he would have given you living water.

†. John 4:14 . . Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

Seeing as how Christ testified that "no one" can enter the kingdom of God
without being born of water; then it should be understood that there are no
exceptions; viz: even Old Testament luminaries like Noah, Abraham, Isaac,
Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Ruth, Daniel, and David too; all, at some time in
their lives, had to partake of the living water in order to qualify for entry into
the kingdom of God.

The final call in the Bible is an invitation to step up and request the very
same water that Jesus offered that woman.

†. Rev 22:17 . . The Spirit and the bride say: Come. Let the hearer say:
Come. Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it
receive the gift of life-giving water.

According to John 3:5, the water isn't optional, no, it's an or-else. In point of
fact, the water is such an essential prerequisite to entering the kingdom of
God that not even invocations to Jesus' mom as per "pray for us sinners now
and at the hour of our death" will protect someone who neglects to respond
to Christ's testimony and/or the Bible's final call. They will not be allowed in
the kingdom of God, and that's just the tragic, rock-hewn truth of it.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[/font]

User avatar
WebersHome
Guru
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 24 times

Good Friday

Post #65

Post by WebersHome »

[font=Verdana]-
Christ limited days to 12 hours, and no more.

†. John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A
man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.

"this world's light" is the sun. So according to Christ, day is when the sun is
up, and night is when the sun is down.

Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by what's
known as temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time
of year. There are times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when days on
earth consist of less than 12 normal hours of daylight, and sometimes more;
but when Jesus was here; the official number of hours was always 12
regardless.

I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve
equal periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just
a convenient way to operate the government and conduct civil affairs;
including the Temple's activities; e.g. the daily morning and evening
sacrifices.

John 11:9 isn't the only passage in the Bible that defines day as when the
sun is up, and night is when the sun is down. Gen 1:14 defines days and
nights that way too.

Furthermore: Gen 1:16-18 defines night as when the stars are out.

Anyway: Matt 17:22-23, Mark 9:31, Luke 9:22, Luke 24:12-21, Luke 24:46,
Acts 10:40, and 1Cor 15:4 all indicate that Christ revived during the third
day rather than after the third day was over and done. (Keep in mind that
the Bible defines day as when the sun is up.)

So if we assign Sunday as the third day, then it's child's play to identify
Saturday as the second, and Friday as the first.

And if we permit the Bible to define night as when the sun is down; then
Saturday night is the third night, Friday night is the second night, and
Thursday night is the first night.


FYI: Some folk insist that Christ rose from the dead Saturday night after the
weekly sabbath ended at sundown. But keep in mind that Matt 17:22-23,
Mark 9:31, Luke 9:22, Luke 24:12-21, Luke 24:46, Acts 10:40, and 1Cor
15:4 all indicate that Christ revived during the third day rather than during
the third night; and according to John 11:9, Gen 1:14, and Gen 1:16-18;
day is when the sun is up, and night is when the sun is down.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[/font]

User avatar
WebersHome
Guru
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 24 times

Christ's Passover vs The Jews' Passover

Post #66

Post by WebersHome »

[font=Verdana]-
Christ's last supper was a Passover.

†. Luke 22:7-16 . .Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the
Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying: Go
and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.

. . .Where do you want us to prepare for it?

. . . He replied: As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet
you. Follow him to the house that he enters, and say to the owner of the
house: "The Teacher asks: where is the guest room, where I may eat the
Passover with my disciples?" He will show you a large upper room, all
furnished. Make preparations there.

. . .They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared
the Passover.

. . .When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. And he
said to them: I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I
suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the
kingdom of God.

The Jews ate their Passover after Christ was arrested and put on trial.

†. John 13:1-2 . . Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew
that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the
Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto
the end. And supper being ended, etc, etc.

†. John 18:28 . .Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it
was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest
they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.

†. John 19:13-14 . .When Pilate therefore heard these words, he brought
Jesus out, and sat down on the judgment seat at a place called The
Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha. Now it was the day of preparation for
the Passover; it was about the sixth hour.

In other words: Christ ate his own Passover a full twenty-four hours before the
Jews ate theirs.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[/font]

User avatar
WebersHome
Guru
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 24 times

Passover Sabbaths

Post #67

Post by WebersHome »

[font=Verdana]-
OBJECTION: Friday is definitively the day of Christ's crucifixion because
the Sabbath followed immediately.


RESPONSE: The identity of that particular sabbath is easily the most
common error that people make when attempting to calculate the
chronology of the three nights that Christ predicted at Matt 12:40.

Most of us have had it drilled into our heads since childhood that the word
"sabbath" always, and without exception, refers to the usual seventh-day
repose. However; that word not only applies to the usual day; it also applies
to other holy days wherein no servile work is permitted.

For example Yom Kippur [Lev 16:31), the Feast of Trumpets (Num 19:1),
and the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Lev 23:5-8)

The Feast of Unleavened Bread (a.k.a. Passover week) is interesting because
it has two days wherein no servile work is permitted, one at the beginning of
the feast, and another at the end; and while the usual sabbaths are fixed;
Passover sabbaths float so that it's actually possible to have two consecutive
sabbaths when Passover sabbaths butt up against the usual sabbaths.

That very situation occurred in 1994, 2001 and 2008. Passover fell on
Sunday. So Judaism had to observe two sabbaths in a row those years: the
usual sabbath on Saturday, followed immediately by a Passover sabbath on
Sunday; which for Judaism is normally the first day of the week. At the end
of the feast, they did it all over again.


FYI: Some time ago I searched Passover dates back fifty years and could
not find even one time when it fell on a Friday. I'm not accusing the Jews of
manipulating their religious calendar to make sure Passover never falls on a
Friday, but I cannot help but suspect that is exactly what they do.

Anyway; having consecutive sabbaths in the mix throws people off when
they try to construct a chronology of the three nights that Christ predicted
because it's so easy to mistake Passover's sabbath for the usual sabbath.
Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to John 13:1-2 and John 18:28, the Jews had not yet eaten their
Passover when Christ was arrested and put on trial.

According to John 19:13-14, Christ's crucifixion took place on the day when
the Jews removed leavened bread from their homes and slaughtered lambs
for the Passover dinner that night.

The old covenant's holy days typically kick off at sundown of the previous
day; ergo: the Jews' Passover sabbath that year kicked off at sundown of
the very day of Christ's crucifixion.

†. John 19:31 . .The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the
bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that
sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be
broken, and that they might be taken away.

The Greek word for "high" is megas (meg'-as) which essentially means big.
Well yeah of course that particular sabbath was big. It wasn't a usual
sabath; no, it was a Passover sabbath.

Now, I feel it only fair to warn everybody that there are some heavy hitters
out there, some with Th.D. degrees, who refuse to factor the Jews' Passover
sabbath into the three nights that Christ predicted at Matt 12:40; so be
prepared for some pretty stiff opposition; from not only the heavy hitters
themselves, but also from their admirers.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[/font]

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Apostatized From Rome

Post #68

Post by marco »

WebersHome wrote: [font=Georgia]-
My mom had me baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944;
and when old enough; enrolled me in catechism where I eventually
completed First Holy Communion and Confirmation.


Then you should bless your mother, as God in his commandments commanded you to do. Honour thy father and thy mother. and of course the Catholic Church is you Mother Church, whatever sins you've committed, and so honour her too.
You have been blessed with a good start I life. Let's hope you have lived up to it.

Post Reply