Apostatized From Rome

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Apostatized From Rome

Post #1

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My mom had me baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944;
and when old enough; enrolled me in catechism where I eventually
completed First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

My aunt and uncle were Catholics, their son is a Catholic, one of my half
brothers is now a semi retired Friar. My father-in-law was a Catholic, as was
my mother-in-law. Everybody alive on my wife's side are Catholics; her
aunts and uncles, and her cousins. My sister-in-law was a nun for a number
of years before falling out with the hierarchy that controlled her order.

I have things to thank the Church for. It instilled within me an unshakable
confidence in the Holy Bible as a reliable authority in all matters pertaining
to faith and practice. It also instilled within me a trust in the integrity of
Jesus Christ. Very early in my youth; I began to believe that Christ knew
what he was talking about and meant what he said.

I was very proud to be affiliated with Roman Catholicism, and confident as
all get out that it is the one true Christian religion. Some Catholics see red
whenever the Church is criticized and/or critiqued, but I never did. Some
Catholics see criticism and/or critique of the Church's beliefs and practices as
hatred for Catholics. I have never understood that mentality.

Ironically, one of the Church's enemies, the Jehovah's Witnesses, sometimes
react the same way when somebody criticizes and/or critiques the Watch
Tower Society. For some odd reason, it translates in their minds as hatred
for Jehovah's Witnesses. I think some people have trouble telling the
difference between a sport and a sport's fans; if you know what I mean.

Oddly, though I was confident that the Bible is a reliable authority in all
matters pertaining to faith and practice; I had never actually sat down and
read it. A co-worker in a metal shop where I worked as a welder in 1968
suggested that I buy one and see for myself what it says.

Everything went smoothly till I got to the New Testament, and in no time at
all I began to realize that Rome does not always agree with the Holy Bible;
nor does it always agree with Christ. Well; that was unacceptable with me
because I was, and still am, confident that the Holy Bible is a reliable
authority in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, and that Christ knew
what he was talking about and meant what he said.

Well; I soon became confronted with a very serious decision. Do I continue
to follow Rome and its catechism, or do I switch to following Christ and the
Holy Bible?

The decision was a no-brainer due to my confidence in the Holy Bible as a
reliable authority in all matters pertaining to faith and practice; and due to
my trust in Jesus Christ's integrity-- that he knew what he was talking about
and meant what he said. So here I am today 48 years later still a Protestant.

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The Holy Family

Post #51

Post by WebersHome »

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"Just as we do not deny these things which are written, so do we repudiate
things that are not written. That God was born of a Virgin we believe,
because we read it. That Mary was married after His birth we do not believe
because we do not read it." -- Ste. Jerome --

Jerome was correct on one point. Up till the time of Christ's birth, Mary and
Joseph were betrothed, but not yet married. (Luke 2:5)

At one point in their engagement, Joseph wanted to break it off. (Matt 1:18
-19)

But a heavenly messenger intervened to prevent him. (Matt 1:20)

Subsequently, Joseph continued to honor the engagement. (Matt 1:24)

Now the really significant part is: the messenger instructed Joseph to name
Mary's baby (Matt 1:21).

Joseph did as he was told. (Matt 1:25)

Mary too was ordered to name her baby; with the very same name the
messenger dictated to Joseph. (Luke 7:31)

So when the time came to give the baby his legal name, both Joseph and
Mary stepped forward together to identify themselves as Christ's parents.

†. Luke 2:21 . . And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising
of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel
before he was conceived in the womb.

Now; by some strange twist of the imagination, Jerome somehow convinced
himself that when Joseph and Mary stepped forward to give Christ his legal
name, they did so as a betrothed couple rather than a married couple. In
other words; Jerome somehow convinced himself that Christ's parents
remained engaged forever and never got around to tying the knot!

But that's not how engagements work. They are not meant to be perpetual
arrangements with no end in sight. No. When a man and woman commit
themselves to an engagement, it's with the intent and fore view of getting
married and settling down together. Why Jerome didn't get it I just don't
know.

A far more sensible take on Joseph and Mary, is that sometime between
Christ's birth and his circumcision, they tied the knot. So when they stepped
forward to give Christ his legal name, they did so as man and wife.

Thus, in full accord with the normal round of human experience: Jesus,
Mary, and Joseph were a family in every sense of the word-- a holy family;
not some freak coven consisting of a child shared by two people engaged to
never be married.

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Cursed Christians

Post #52

Post by WebersHome »

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When you strip away all the superfluous glitter, all the glorious facades--
e.g. Popes, Vatican City, Ste. Peter's Basilica, the hierarchy, robes, special
garments, miters, rituals, rites, confessions, dogma, sacraments, catechism,
saints, stations of the cross, the Eucharist, Mother Teresa, sculptures,
frescoes, stained glass, crucifixes, virgin sightings, rosaries, rote prayers,
candles, ornate churches and cathedrals, convents, seminaries, fasts, holy
days of obligation, ceremonies, novenas, John the Baptist's arm, nails and
splinters from the cross, etc, etc, etc --here's what's left: here is the gist of
Roman Catholicism's plan of salvation.

†. Mark 10:17-21 . .And when he was gone forth into the way, there came
one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him; Good Master, what shall I
do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him . .Thou knowest
the commandments, do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, do not
bear false witness, defraud not, honor thy father and mother.

Christ's counseling is valid. The running man wanted to know what he had to
do in order to obtain eternal life; and Jesus told him.

If the man had followed up with another question that went like this: What
happens if I fail to obey the commandments consistently? Then Christ's next
reply would have been this:

†. Gal 3:10-11 …For as many as are of the works of the commandments are
under a curse; for it is written: Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all
things written in the books of The Law to perform them. (cf. Deut 27:26)

And according to Jas 2:10, breaking even one of the commandments is
tantamount to breaking every one of them.

Consistence is the key to obtaining eternal life via commandments.
Webster's defines consistent as: 1) possessing firmness or coherence, 2)
marked by harmony, regularity, or steady continuity; viz: free from variation
or contradiction, and 3) showing steady conformity to character, profession,
belief, or custom.

Let's say you are normally a conscientious driver-- always coming to a
complete stop at STOP signs, never J-walking, never making an illegal U
turn, always within the speed limit, always using your turn signals, and that
sort of thing. But one day while gabbing on a cell phone with your wife, you
absent-mindedly run a red light. Are you consistently a good driver? No. You
broke the law and a cop is justified in writing you a ticket for running a red
light, and the violation goes on your driving record.

You see; consistence doesn't mean you obey the law some of the time, nor
even most of the time. Consistence means you obey the law all the time.
Lack of consistence results in a ticket: viz: the curse of Deut 27:26.

That's exactly why so many Catholics will never escape. It's because they
will never measure up to their own religion's plan of salvation which is
essentially a merit system based upon performance. Thousands of Catholics,
no, millions, right now, today, don't measure up to their own religion's
teachings-- they have yet to even consistently exemplify the Beatitudes let
alone the remainder of the Sermon on the mount-- and even if you were to
grant them another 59 years to work it out, they would still fail to measure
up. You know why? Because they cannot be God; and according to the Lord
and Master of New Testament Christianity; God-likeness is exactly what
Catholics must produce in order to inherit eternal life via a merit system
based upon compliance with commandments.

A common New Testament Greek word for save is sozo (sode'-zo); which
means: to rescue and/or protect.

Rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what
Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings. Rescuing is
what mountaineer teams do when climbers are in trouble. Rescuing is what
EMT paramedics do when someone needs to get to a hospital in a hurry; and
kept alive till they arrive. Rescuing is what surgeons do when someone
needs an organ transplant. I could go on and on giving you example of
rescuer after rescuer; but I think you get the idea. The New Testament's
Jesus rescues people from the wrath of God-- people who fully deserve Hell,
and definitely in line to go there.

You see, if people could comply with Christ's teachings at Mark 10:17-21
they would be in no need of a rescue. That's because they would be in no
danger of the curse of Deut 27:26. No, they'd be perfectly safe. But
everybody needs a rescue because everybody is failing to consistently
comply with the commandments; ergo: everybody is in grave danger (Rom
2:6-16, Rom 3:10-20).

But praise, and thank, and kiss the Bible God's feet and toes that Christ's
Father devised a contingency-- an honest to gosh bail-out resulting in a
totally gratuitous, no strings attached, free of charge, fail-safe, sin-proof,
God-proof, commandment-proof, guaranteed safe passage to the other side,
and full-time protection from retribution that relieved me of any obligation
whatsoever to comply with Mark 10:17-21.

†. Rom 8:3-4 . .For what the commandments could not do, in that they were
weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful
flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the
commandments might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but
after The Spirit.

†. Gal 2:15-16 . .We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the
Gentiles, knowing that no man is righteous by commandments, but rather
by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we
might be made righteous by the faith of Christ, rather than by
commandments: for by the commandments shall no flesh be righteous.

†. Gal 2:21 . .I am not one of those who treats the kindness of God as
meaningless. For if we could be spared by keeping commandments, then
there was no need for Christ to die.

†. Gal 3:21-22 . .For if a commandment had been given that could impart
life, then righteousness would certainly have come by commandments.

†. Gal 5:3-4 . .You who are trying to be righteous with God via
commandments have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from
His graciousness.

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Confirmation

Post #53

Post by WebersHome »

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†. Eph 1:13-14 . . In him you also trusted, after you heard the word of
truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were
sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our
inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession

According to CCC 1317, the seal is an imprinted spiritual mark or indelible
character on the believer's soul. However, according to the syntax of the
passage above, the seal isn't a mark or a character at all, but rather: the
promised Holy Spirit.

The koiné Greek word for "guarantee" is arrhabon (ar-hrab-ohn') which
means: a pledge; which Webster's defines as: (1) security for a debt or
other obligation, and (2) something given as security for the performance of
an act.

An excellent example of a pledge is located at Gen 38:15-18. Judah left his
staff and his signet with a women whom he assumed to be a temple
prostitute to guarantee his promise to pay her with an animal from his
flocks. According to the rules of a pledge, had Judah reneged on his promise,
the woman would have legal right to keep his personal items in lieu of the
animal. This is exactly how quite a few pawn shops conduct their short-term
loan business even to this day.

So then, since the Holy Spirit is God's pledge in Eph 1:13-14; then,
according to the principles underlying pledges, if God should renege on His
promise to spare people who hear and believe the gospel, then He has to
forfeit His own Spirit, and the believer gets to keep it, regardless of their
eternal destiny.

Since it would be very embarrassing for God to renege, and even more
embarrassing to send somebody to hell accompanied by His spirit, then I'm
sure you can see right off that once God commits; He will certainly follow
through.

†. Phlp 1:6 . . Being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you
will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you; those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.


FYI: Webster's defines "never" as not ever, at no time, not in any degree,
not under any condition

Some folk are apparently of the opinion that Christ's Father has a problem
with integrity. Not me. I believe that God's pledge, like His word, is His
bond; viz: I have every right to detain God's spirit in custody until God
makes good on His promise to pull me through to safety.

Another application of the arrhabon pledge is commonly seen in real estate
transactions.

As anybody who's ever bought property knows, earnest money isn't a down
payment; no, far from it. Although it may be applied towards the purchase
price of property, earnest money itself serves a specific purpose of its own in
the real estate business. In some quarters; this is also called good faith
money.

When the contract, and all the other necessary documents are submitted to
Escrow, the buyer is required to also submit a token amount of the purchase
price. It's usually a relatively small number of dollars compared to the full
price of the property. I think ours was just $1,000 back in 1988 on a
$74,000 home. When the buyer follows through on their intent to purchase
the property, the good faith money (minus some Escrow fees of course)
goes towards the purchase. However, if the buyer loses interest in the
property and decides to renege, then they forfeit the good faith money. No
doubt that's done to discourage vacillating buyers from fiddling around with
other people's time and money.

So then, since God's spirit is the Escrow deposit depicted in Eph 1:13-14;
then, according to the principles underlying good faith deposits, if God
should renege on His promise to spare people who hear and believe the
gospel, then He forfeits; and the believer gets to keep the Holy Spirit
regardless of their eternal destiny.

There are people who actually believe the Bible's God can get away with
reneging on His promises. A belief of that nature of course eo ipso insinuates
that the Bible's God is capable of dishonesty and can't be trusted to make
good on anything He says.

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Peter's Hope

Post #54

Post by WebersHome »

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†. 1Pet 3:15 . . Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks
you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

That passage should probably always accompany this next one.

†. Rom 8:23-25 . .We ourselves, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit,
groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons: the redemption
of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no
hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we
do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

The New Testament Greek word for "hope" in those passages is elpis (el
pece') which means to anticipate (usually with pleasure)and to expect with
confidence. Note the elements of anticipation, and expectation, and
confidence.

Webster's definition of hope as a verb is very similar: 1) to desire with
expectation of obtainment, and 2) to expect with confidence and trust. Note
the elements of expectation, and confidence, and trust.

Webster's definition of hope as a noun is: 1) a desire accompanied by
expectation of, or belief in, fulfillment, and 2) expectation of fulfillment or
success. Note the elements of expectation, and belief.


NOTE: Some folk object to Webster's in a Bible study, but unless those of us
who speak English base our language upon a universal standard, we risk
ending up back at the Tower of Babel.

The plan of salvation includes not only rescue from the wrath of God, but
also rescue from despair and feelings of futility. In other words: unbelievers
do not expect to survive the demise of their bodies, nor do they expect to
get another body in the afterlife; let alone a better body-- one that's
superior in all respects to the body they have now. Believers expect to not
only survive the demise of their body; but also to get a better body-- one
that's superior in all respects to the one they have now.

When somebody has that kind of hope, it rescues them from despair and
feelings of futility. In other words: the unbeliever's current existence is
futile, but the believer's current existence is merely a stepping stone to
something better. Believers have something to look forward to while
unbelievers have nothing to look forward to. That's what it means to be
"saved by hope". In other words: saved from having nothing to look forward
to. (cf. 1Cor 15:51-54)

†. Rom 12:12 . . Rejoicing in hope.

When people are praying for the best, while in the back of their mind
dreading the worst, they have absolutely no cause for rejoicing; no; but they
do have plenty of cause to fear the unknown.

Does an adherent of Catholicism have elpis hope? I don't think so; and in
point of fact, Church dogma forbids having it.

Council of Trent Session 6, Chapter 16, Canon 16: If anyone says that he
will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift
of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a
special revelation, let him be anathema. (cf. CCC 1020)

Webster's defines "anathema" as: a ban or curse solemnly pronounced by
ecclesiastical authority and accompanied by excommunication.

Since Rome doesn't permit elpis hope, then it's de facto that Rome's
constituents can't possibly comply with Peter's command to give a reason for
having it.

The Bible says that elpis hope is a "calling"

†. Eph 4:5 . .you were called to one hope when you were called

Catholicism's hope is not Peter's elpis hope; but rather, a somewhat nervous
state of anxiety and wishful thinking that hovers within a hair's breadth of
bitter disappointment.

The Council aside; it only stands to reason, that any candidate for a better
body who is in the process of working out their own salvation with fear and
trembling as per Rome's interpretation of Phlp 2:12, cannot possibly have
elpis hope.

Think about it. If a candidate for salvation is still in the process of working
out their own salvation with fear and trembling, then it's obvious they do not
believe themselves to have a better body locked in yet; ergo: no3
conscientious Catholic can honestly look forward to a better body with a
100% doubt-free expectation of obtaining it; viz: they do not yet have the
kind of hope about which Peter wrote in 1Pet 3:15, nor the kind of hope
about which Paul wrote in Eph 4:5; and if they claim otherwise, then they
merit the penalty of Council of Trent Session 6, Chapter 16, Canon 16.

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LGBT

Post #55

Post by WebersHome »

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The morality of gays and lesbians is essentially a non issue for Rome's
followers. CCC 2357 soundly condemns same sex relations as:

1â—� Acts of grave depravity

2â—� Intrinsically disordered

3â—� Contrary to natural law, and

4â—� Under no circumstances approved.

The Catechism is in good harmony with the Holy Bible.

†. Lev 20:13 . .If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of
them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood
will be on their own heads.

†. Rom 1:25-27 . .They exchanged the truth of God for a lie . . Because of
this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged
natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also
abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one
another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in
themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

†. 1Cor 6:9-10 . .Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit
the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals . .will inherit the kingdom
of God.

†. Jude 1:6-7 . .Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them,
since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went
after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the
punishment of eternal fire.

†. 1Cor 10:11 . .These things happened to them as examples and were
written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has
come.

†. 2John 10-11 . .If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that
biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Now if only certain elements of Rome's hierarchy would take the Catechism
and the Bible to heart before they completely destroy the Church's credibility
by the depraved things they do in secret.

†. Ecc 3:16-18 . . I have seen under the sun that in the place of justice
there is wickedness, and in the place of righteousness there is wickedness. I
said to myself: God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man,
for there is a time for every matter and for every deed.

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Holding The Line

Post #56

Post by WebersHome »

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COMMON ATTTITUDE: Although there are many things about which you speak
that I cannot refute; deep down I know you are wrong even though I can't
prove it. And anyway, all you've really done is manipulate the Scriptures to
support your own personal beliefs. I will never leave the Roman Catholic
Church. I am stronger in my Catholic beliefs now than ever before.


RESPONSE: People in that state of mind have gone and done the very same
thing that an obstinate Pharaoh did when he went toe to toe with Moses in
the book of Exodus. They've stiffened their resolve; so that no matter what
Rome's critics say now, they'll never give in.

†. Mark 3:22-30 . . And the teachers of the law who came down from
Jerusalem said: He is possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he
is driving out demons.

. . . So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables. How can Satan
drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot
stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if
Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. In
fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions
unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house.

. . . I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven
them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be
forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they were
saying, "He has an evil spirit."

Matthew's version says that Jesus "knew their thoughts". So then, he was
fully aware of which among the Pharisees were convinced in their own mind
that Jesus was a Divine agent; given miraculous powers from God, and
commissioned by God for a special purpose.

According to Nicodemus (John 3:1-2) there were a number of Pharisees who
knew very well that Jesus was on the up-and-up. Most of them never
admitted to it of course because they were obtuse-- the natural result of
being seriously infected with a spirit of rivalry, envy, spite, and religious
pride and elitism.

Their remark that Christ is in league with the Devil, was all the same as
slandering God's spirit because Christ spoke in the power of the Spirit.

†. John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's
Spirit is upon him without measure or limit.

Theirs wasn't an innocent mistake; no, they deliberately suppressed the
voice of their own conscience, and fiercely contradicted their own better
judgment; which only serves to illustrate just how sadly lacking in integrity
that many of Christ's opponents really are. They not only can't be true with
God, but they can't even be true to themselves. When people get to that
point, their afterlife destiny is pretty much set in concrete.

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Re: Holding The Line

Post #57

Post by Bede »

[Replying to post 56 by WebersHome]

Hi WebersHome

I too was born in 1944.
I too was baptised and raised a Catholic, went to a Catholic school until aged 18.
I too went to First Holy Communion and Confiration classes.

By the time I left school I was an agnostic and also had some issues with the Catholic Church. However our Good Shepherd came looking for his lost sheep and 21 years later he brought me back into his Church. Over many years I have been on various courses, including Bible Study, and have come to realise to the truth of Catholic doctrine, and that, if it is properly understood, there is no conflict with scripture (properly interpreted).

I have read through many of your posts in this thread and it seems to me that you have woven yourself a cocoon made of misunderstandings, half truths and errors, fenced round with a phalanx of straw men. You probably feel comfortable thus surrounded and it provides you an excuse for your ‘apostasy’ from Rome.

No doubt you will suggest that I demonstrate your errors but it would be to no purpose. If you really wanted the truth on these matters you would have gone to a good Catholic discussion forum (such as CCF) where there are many who could give you answers.

I hope that one day you will search for the truth and come home.

God bless

Bede

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True Story

Post #58

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In 1968, I was a young single guy of 24 years old and living solo in a tiny
rented room in a family home's daylight basement in Portland Oregon. I had
lots of time to myself to think about things since I had no friends, nor any
kind of social contact whatsoever other than at work. I wasn't distracted
with a girl friend, nor by pals and beer buddies, nor by an obsessive hobby.
It was just me, my 1961 Volkswagen, and a 305 Honda motorcycle that I
rode all over northwest Oregon. One of the things that occupied my thoughts
a lot was hell and the very real possibility of my going there.

At the time, I was working as a welder in a large metal shop located in an
old WW2 Kaiser shipyard located in Vancouver Washington on the banks of
the Columbia River. The blueprint man was a Protestant minister who, one
day, out of the blue, asked me if I was ready for Christ's return.

Well, I had never been taught about that in catechism so I asked the man
why Christ would want to return. He responded: to rule the world. I had
mixed emotions to the man's reply: I was half afraid and half indignant to be
made afraid. But I instinctively knew that were I subpoenaed to stand before
Christ to answer for the things I had done in life, it would not go well for me.

Anyway I demanded of the man to know where he got his information. He
replied: from the Bible. So I informed him that I was a Catholic and trusted
only Rome's version of the Bible. He responded that all Bibles say pretty
much the same thing; which was news to me since in those days the Church
insisted that Protestant Bibles were unreliable.

Then he asked me the million dollar question: Would I be going to heaven
when I died? I responded, in so many words; that I had no clue. And he
replied: Don't you believe Christ died for you?

BANG! for the first time in my life; Christ's crucifixion made sense; and not
only made sense, but seemed a very possible ticket to heaven. In point of
fact, in an instant I was positive it was my ticket. Up till then I had always
thought of Christ as a sad victim of circumstances beyond his control; never
dreaming his ordeal made an acquittal possible.

In time; the man suggested that I come with him to his church and make a
public profession of my acceptance of Jesus' death on my behalf. So I went
with him and we informed the Pastor why I was there.

After the service was over, and the people had left; the Pastor and I, plus
my friend and an elder, went down to the rail in front of the stage; where I
prayed a very simple, naïve prayer that went something like this:

"Lord, I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death."

While saying my brief, unrehearsed prayer, I became strangely aware of a
heavy chair just in front of the rail, suspended maybe about four feet up in
the air, and a bit off to the left side, with a lone figure sitting on it looking in
my direction.

I couldn't really make out the face, but the person wearing that face was
just sitting there, silently, neither moving nor uttering a sound while intently
observing me speak every single syllable of my childish prayer. I was
thoroughly unraveled, and could hardly wait to get up and get out of there. I
told no one what happened, and the scene I perceived vanished as quietly,
and as suddenly, as it had appeared.

The human mind is produced by a 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue,
and not even all three of those pounds are devoted to cognitive processes.
It's very likely that the scene I perceived in front of the rail was the result of
emotional stress that pushed my flabby little mind into imagining things;
who really knows for sure? But I will always be fully persuaded that at that
very moment, the Bible's God made Himself real to me in such a way as to
convince me that I no longer had anything to fear from the wrath of God.

Believe me when I tell you I was overwhelmed with immense relief-- to the
point of weeping uncontrollably like a man condemned to the guillotine
suddenly given a 12th hour pardon --because the one thing Rome had
succeeded in instilling in my heart was a dread fear of hell.

Having the assurance that I need no longer fear going there has been the
happiest happy thought that to this day has ever gone through my mind;
and I know for myself, by personal experience; that the passage below is
true and reliable.

†. Rom 8:16 . .The Spirit himself corroborates with our spirit that we are
God's children.

All the years I was a Catholic, no one in authority-- not one nun, not one
priest, nor even my own half brother who's now a semi retired Friar --had
ever suggested that I speak with God about taking advantage of His son's
death. That's really curious behavior from the largest Christian agency on
earth advertising itself as Christ's ambassador.

All those hours in catechism, and all those hours in church were just
academic. I was encouraged to be pious-- to attend church, to pay my dues,
to go to confession, to take the Eucharist, to conform to the Ten
Commandments, the beatitudes and the sermon on the mount --but never
once encouraged me to consult God one-on-one about my afterlife
prospects.

Do you sometimes wonder if you're going to hell? Why not speak with God
about it? Get it off your chest: get it all off your chest. There's no shame in
being nervous and scared. The shame is in pretending you're not.

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Bede
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Posts: 185
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:43 am
Location: England

Re: True Story

Post #59

Post by Bede »

[Replying to post 58 by WebersHome]

WebersHome,

When you die and go before the judgement seat, blaming your apostasy from God's Church on poor teaching in your childhood will not, I suggest, get much sympathy. You have been an adult a long time, long enough to make serious attempts to find the truth.

If you didn't learn that Christ died for you, if you didn't learn that you can go direct to the Father and ask forgiveness, you must have been asleep in your catechetical classes.

You must have said the Nicene creed many times - "I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God.....For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven.... For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures....". Did you never ask about what you were saying?

"Our Father, who art in heaven.... forgive us our tresspasses..." - remember that prayer?.

It's time to stop this self pity and seek the truth about the Catholic Church; and I can assure you that you are far from it. But "Seek and you will find".

God bless

Bede

User avatar
WebersHome
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Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
Location: Oregon
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Re: True Story

Post #60

Post by WebersHome »

[font=Verdana]-
Rote prayers do not qualify as speaking with God one-on-one.

†. Heb 4:16 . . Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace

The Greek word for "boldly" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which means all
out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or confidence.

Mantras like the Nicene Creed, Act Of Contrition, the Hail Mary, and the Our
Father are not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor out-spoken, nor
confident. They're actually not much different than mindlessly chanting
Hindu mantras over and over and over again and/or reading the lines of a
script like a Hollywood actor. It's really no different than bobbing back and
forth while reading from a siddur like one of those Jews at the Wailing Wall.

†. Matt 6:7-9 . . In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that
they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them. Your
Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

Do you speak to your friends, your associates, your spouse, your domestic
partner, your significant other, your doctor, your dentist, supermarket
cashiers, or the cops by repeating the same thing over and over again? Of
course not. They would write you off as one in desperate need of therapy if
you did. Then why would anyone think it makes sense to speak to God by
saying the same thing over and over again?

I appeal not only to your reason, but also to your sensibilities. Suppose the
door bell rang one day and when you opened up— yikes! —it was God
himself in person! Would you welcome God into your home by reading from
a missal and/or chanting rote prayers; or would you greet Him as you do
real visitors? Well, the Bible's God is real; so treat Him with the courtesy and
respect that His intelligence deserves if you expect Him to reciprocate and
treat you with courtesy and respect in return.

Don't you think He looks upon rote chanters as mental cases when they do
that? Of course He does; who wouldn't? How would you like it if everybody
spoke to you like that? Well, He doesn't like it either. God is far more
intelligent than anybody you could possibly name and rote chanters are
treating Him like a totem pole. The Bible's God is a king who deserves far
more respect than a US President yet people are speaking to Him like a tape
recorder rather than the ultimate Sovereign that He is.

Don't ever treat Christ's father like some sort of sounding board. Not even
Forrest Gump would appreciate being spoken to in rote, and God's IQ is way
higher than Forrest's; so how do you suppose He feels about being
addressed in rote. The Bible's God is a sentient, sensible person; and we all
need to show some respect for His intelligence. I guarantee He will be most
grateful for your regard.

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