A New Era In Our Relationship With Knowledge

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Philbert

A New Era In Our Relationship With Knowledge

Post #1

Post by Philbert »

This thread will argue that our traditional "more is better" relationship with knowledge is outdated and in need of revision.

The premise is that we are moving from an era of incremental knowledge development, to a more exponential rate of knowledge development, requiring a corresponding shift in our relationship with knowledge development.

Here's an example...

Since the dawn of time, most of humanity has lived near the edge of starvation. Thus, it was completely understandable and sensible that we had a "more is better" relationship with food.

But then something revolutionary happened. For the first time in history a huge middle class emerged that enjoyed reliable access to food, to the point where we now take food more or less for granted.

For those in this global middle class and above, the main health threat is no longer from starvation, but from obesity.

Our relationship with food has not caught up to the new reality.

If readers wish to argue that a "more is better" relationship with knowledge is still appropriate, please help us understand how much more you are suggesting.

Remember, knowledge equals power, so the question can be reframed as, how much power is too much?

I look forward to your remarks.

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Re: A New Era In Our Relationship With Knowledge

Post #2

Post by Divine Insight »

Philbert wrote: If readers wish to argue that a "more is better" relationship with knowledge is still appropriate, please help us understand how much more you are suggesting.
Aren't you attempting to make a truly superficial and empty argument here?

I would argue that more knowledge is always better. What you do with that knowledge is a whole other topic.

What are you suggesting that holding people to a certain level of ignorance would be somehow "better"?

I think many religious people are afraid of knowledge precisely because their religions beliefs depend upon ignorance in order to survive.
Philbert wrote: Remember, knowledge equals power, so the question can be reframed as, how much power is too much?
I disagree that knowledge equals power. I have far more knowledge than many average people. But I do not necessarily have more power than many average people.

I think knowledge can be a powerful tool for obtaining power if a person desires to have power. Not everyone is obsessed with the desire for power. And how do you even define "power".

What does "power" mean to you?
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Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
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keithprosser3

Post #3

Post by keithprosser3 »

knowledge equals power.

Knowledge is only one possible source of power - there are others. If I know something you don't know then that might well allow me to exert some power over you. But if I know something you don't know but you have a gun and I don't have one I'd be happy enough to call it a draw.

Philbert

Re: A New Era In Our Relationship With Knowledge

Post #4

Post by Philbert »

Aren't you attempting to make a truly superficial and empty argument here?
OMG, that's it! What was I thinking??? Oh crap, I hope this doesn't get me banned!!
I would argue that more knowledge is always better. What you do with that knowledge is a whole other topic.
How do we control knowledge once it's been uncovered?

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Re: A New Era In Our Relationship With Knowledge

Post #5

Post by Divine Insight »

Philbert wrote: How do we control knowledge once it's been uncovered?
Are you referring solely to technological knowledge?

If that's the case then I can see your problem.

Giving someone who is ignorant in many ways some technological knowledge without giving them the knowledge of wisdom along with it can indeed be quite dangerous. So the best way to 'control' knowledge is to be sure to provide the knowledge of wisdom along with the knowledge of technology.

For example, if we have ignorant people who are still believing in ancient myths of jealous Gods who have directed them to kill heathens, and we then arm them with the technological knowledge of how to build bombs to arm themselves as suicide bombers, then we have a very bad situation to be sure.

The solution is to include the education and knowledge that these ancient myths have no merit and there is no jealous God who will provide people with 72 virgins if they blow themselves up whilst killing others they deem to be heathen enemies of their jealous God.

So the solution in this case, is that we control knowledge by educating people with an even greater level of knowledge.

What good is the knowledge of evolution, for example, when people are still clinging to ancient myths that some God created us and we fell from his grace becoming his enemy and we are now in dire need to appease him in an effort to gain salvation? Does that represent "knowledge"? It's just an ignorant myth that has no basis in reality.

It appears to me that often times the real problem with knowledge is that people simply refuse to accept it and instead they prefer to cling to the ignorance of myths that do not represent actual knowledge.

Today, we live in a time when the knowledge of nature is being unveiled rather quickly in vivid detail, whilst the knowledge of the falsity of ancient mythological superstitions is being highly resisted.

So what we have here is not a problem of too much knowledge, but rather the problem lies in the refusal to embrace all of the knowledge we actually have available.

Just look around the world today at how huge a role these ancient mythological religions play in today's societies and cultures, and it should become vividly clear to you that knowledge is simply not being accepted. People are still clinging to these myths that have no sound basis in knowledge whilst actually refusing to accept the knowledge that is known to be true.

So the best way to try to control knowledge is to simply try to get people to accept it by better educating them. But ironically, there seems to be a major disdain for knowledge. People seem to prefer ignorance and myths over truth.

We are currently attempting to teach knowledge in our colleges and universities. The results are pretty encouraging actually. I've heard that statistic show that 9 out of 10 religious people who enter college graduate as atheists. That's a 90% success rate in education and the teaching of knowledge.

Ironically the religious communities are actually complaining about this and blaming the colleges for doing a "bad thing" because the colleges aren't teaching people to continue to believe in unwarranted myths. (i.e. ignorance over knowledge)

So there is a great opposition to knowledge. The masses don't like to become educated and they fight against it tooth and nail. When knowledge is successfully taught they complain that it is interfering with their belief in ignorance and myth.

So the best way to actually "control" knowledge is to try to educate everyone fully and get them to let go of ignorance and myth. But that is a very difficult thing to do.

Our colleges seem to be succeeding at this at a 90% success rate. Our high-schools are failing to step up to the plate on this one. So knowledge is only working for 90% of the college educated. We still have a 10% failure rate in colleges, and our high schools aren't doing their part very well at all.

So the masses who are not college educated tend to cling to ignorance at a much higher rate. And the 10% of the college educated who didn't truly comprehend knowledge continue to resist the knowledge they were unable to grasp.

There is no problem with knowledge. The problem lies in getting people to embrace knowledge over ignorance.

That's how I see it. ;)
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Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
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relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]

Philbert

Re: A New Era In Our Relationship With Knowledge

Post #6

Post by Philbert »

If that's the case then I can see your problem.
Thank you for helping me see my so many problems! How would I get by without you???
So the best way to 'control' knowledge is to be sure to provide the knowledge of wisdom along with the knowledge of technology.
Ok, so how do we do that?
For example, if we have ignorant people who are still believing in ancient myths of jealous Gods who have directed them to kill heathens, and we then arm them with the technological knowledge of how to build bombs to arm themselves as suicide bombers, then we have a very bad situation to be sure.
Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?
The solution is to include the education and knowledge that these ancient myths have no merit and there is no jealous God who will provide people with 72 virgins if they blow themselves up whilst killing others they deem to be heathen enemies of their jealous God.
Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?
What good is the knowledge of evolution, for example, when people are still clinging to ancient myths that some God created us and we fell from his grace becoming his enemy and we are now in dire need to appease him in an effort to gain salvation? Does that represent "knowledge"? It's just an ignorant myth that has no basis in reality.
Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?
It appears to me that often times the real problem with knowledge is that people simply refuse to accept it and instead they prefer to cling to the ignorance of myths that do not represent actual knowledge.
Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?
Today, we live in a time when the knowledge of nature is being unveiled rather quickly in vivid detail, whilst the knowledge of the falsity of ancient mythological superstitions is being highly resisted.
Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?

Just look around the world today at how huge a role these ancient mythological religions play in today's societies and cultures, and it should become vividly clear to you that knowledge is simply not being accepted. People are still clinging to these myths that have no sound basis in knowledge whilst actually refusing to accept the knowledge that is known to be true.
Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?
We are currently attempting to teach knowledge in our colleges and universities. The results are pretty encouraging actually. I've heard that statistic show that 9 out of 10 religious people who enter college graduate as atheists. That's a 90% success rate in education and the teaching of knowledge.
Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?
Ironically the religious communities are actually complaining about this and blaming the colleges for doing a "bad thing" because the colleges aren't teaching people to continue to believe in unwarranted myths. (i.e. ignorance over knowledge)
Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?
So there is a great opposition to knowledge. The masses don't like to become educated and they fight against it tooth and nail. When knowledge is successfully taught they complain that it is interfering with their belief in ignorance and myth.
Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?

Please observe how your post was nothing more than one long rant that completely ignored who the mass killers have actually been over the last 100 years or so.

Should we educate highly intelligent advanced people like yourself to address themselves to the actual evidence? Is that part of your plan too?

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Re: A New Era In Our Relationship With Knowledge

Post #7

Post by Divine Insight »

Philbert wrote: Atheists were the main mass killers of the 20th century, what do we do about them?
I am not aware of this "knowledge" you claim.

It is possible that mass killers of the 20th century happened to not believe in theism. It is not at all clear that this was the cause of their actions.

I'm personally not even convinced of your claim anyway. However, even if I accept this to be correct, it's meaningless information and clearly biased. It's biased because you are only looking at the 20th century anyway. If you widen your vision too look at all of history you will clearly see that the greatest atrocities of all time where committed in the name of theistic superstitions.

Moreover in the case of atrocities committed in the name of theism it is crystal clear that theism was the cause of those atrocities. In the case where people who have committed atrocities, and who were coincidentally not theists, it is not clear at all that their atheism played any role whatsoever in their action of committing atrocities.

So I suggest that you simply embrace a larger collection of knowledge. ;)
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Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
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Philbert

Post #8

Post by Philbert »

More atheist dogma chanting.....

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Post #9

Post by Divine Insight »

Philbert wrote: More atheist dogma chanting.....

There is no such thing as atheistic dogma. ;)

But thanks for conceding to my points via your total inability to come back with a rational reply.
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Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]

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