Are homosexual relations sinful?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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2ndRateMind
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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #181

Post by 2ndRateMind »

brunumb wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:58 pm
2ndRateMind wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:56 am
When you, or I, suffer, He suffers alongside us, in direct proportion. Similarly, when we are happy, (in the sense of deep and lasting contentment) then so is He. The result is true love, half joy, half pain, totally ecstasy.
I guess that would mean that when a same sex couple is truly happy in a lasting relationship, God is also happy. When homosexuals are maligned and abused causing suffering and misery, God feels the same.
Exactly that.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Last edited by 2ndRateMind on Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #182

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Miles wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:17 pm
2ndRateMind wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:23 pm
Miles wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:57 am
2ndRateMind wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:56 am

Fools for God we may all be, but our rôle is clear. We must remove from God any cause for pain, because we love Him back. And let His ecstasy be pure joy. And that may well involve keeping to His law, once we have sorted out amongst ourselves precisely what that Law may be. I could even go so far as to claim that this is the way to secure our own happiness, both in this world, and the next.
Not to be argumentative, but god has most certainly been the cause of pain, and trying to remove him from it, deny his connection to it, is dishonest. The Bible is full of instances where god has deliberately made people suffer, sometimes even needlessly.

.
Yes, agreed. But mostly the scriptures are honest enough (even the OT) to say 'X says God says'. Thus one can with due confidence say 'according to X', rather than 'according to God'. This all leaves us, I would suggest, sufficient latitude to interpret the Bible in our own way, for our own times.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Are you implying that those cases where the Bible says, in effect, god deliberately made people suffer, are untrue because they don't say "according to god," but "according to X"? Perhaps you've forgotten what 2 Timothy 3:16 says:

16 All Scripture is given by God. And all Scripture is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives. It is useful for correcting faults and teaching the right way to live.

.
In the opinion of the author (thought to be Paul the Apostle). I would object to the phrase 'all scripture'. I don't much care for Leviticus, for example. It is quite inconsistent with Jesus' loving, forgiving, redeeming Father of all mankind, and I prefer to believe Jesus when offered the choice between such conceptions of God.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Last edited by 2ndRateMind on Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #183

Post by Miles »

2ndRateMind wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:03 am
Miles wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:17 pm
2ndRateMind wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:23 pm
Miles wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:57 am
2ndRateMind wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:56 am

Fools for God we may all be, but our rôle is clear. We must remove from God any cause for pain, because we love Him back. And let His ecstasy be pure joy. And that may well involve keeping to His law, once we have sorted out amongst ourselves precisely what that Law may be. I could even go so far as to claim that this is the way to secure our own happiness, both in this world, and the next.
Not to be argumentative, but god has most certainly been the cause of pain, and trying to remove him from it, deny his connection to it, is dishonest. The Bible is full of instances where god has deliberately made people suffer, sometimes even needlessly.

.
Yes, agreed. But mostly the scriptures are honest enough (even the OT) to say 'X says God says'. Thus one can with due confidence say 'according to X', rather than 'according to God'. This all leaves us, I would suggest, sufficient latitude to interpret the Bible in our own way, for our own times.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Are you implying that those cases where the Bible says, in effect, god deliberately made people suffer, are untrue because they don't say "according to god," but "according to X"? Perhaps you've forgotten what 2 Timothy 3:16 says:

16 All Scripture is given by God. And all Scripture is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives. It is useful for correcting faults and teaching the right way to live.

.
In the opinion of the author (thought to be Paul the Apostle). I would object to the phrase 'all scripture'. I don't much care for Leviticus, for example. It is quite inconsistent with Jesus' loving Father of all mankind, and I prefer to believe Jesus when offered the choice between such conceptions of God.

Best wishes, 2RM.
So you take the parts of the Bible you like and ignore those you don't. IOW, you cherry pick your faith. Okay, to each his own.

.

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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #184

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Miles wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:19 am

So you take the parts of the Bible you like and ignore those you don't. IOW, you cherry pick your faith. Okay, to each his own.
Yup. And I see nothing wrong with that. As I have said previously, God gave us our critical faculties, and we must presume He intended for us to use them, even (perhaps, especially) on scripture.

As for claiming the Bible is entirely true because the Bible says the Bible is entirely true, that is a viciously circular argument. It proves nothing to anyone familiar with basic logic.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Last edited by 2ndRateMind on Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:21 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #185

Post by bluegreenearth »

Miles wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:19 am
So you take the parts of the Bible you like and ignore those you don't. IOW, you cherry pick your faith. Okay, to each his own.

.
As you and I probably agree, every unfalsifiable religious faith is cherry-picked to some level. As such, it is essential that it be to each is own. :approve:

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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #186

Post by bluegreenearth »

2ndRateMind wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:33 am
Miles wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:19 am

So you take the parts of the Bible you like and ignore those you don't. IOW, you cherry pick your faith. Okay, to each his own.
Yup. And I see nothing wrong with that. As I have said elsewhere, God gave us our critical faculties, and we must presume He intended for us to use them, even (perhaps especially) on scripture.

As for claiming the Bible is true because the Bible says the Bible is true, that is a viciously circular argument. It proves nothing to anyone familiar with basic logic.

Best wishes, 2RM.
I appreciate your honest and candid response, even if I don't share your theistic belief. :approve:

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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #187

Post by 2ndRateMind »

bluegreenearth wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:37 pm
Miles wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:19 am
So you take the parts of the Bible you like and ignore those you don't. IOW, you cherry pick your faith. Okay, to each his own.

.
As you and I probably agree, every unfalsifiable religious faith is cherry-picked to some level. As such, it is essential that it be to each is own. :approve:
As I am sure you know, but I just thought it worth the spelling out, that all religious beliefs are both unfalsifiable and unverifiable, in any objective sense. Their validity rests not on logic, or science, but the efficacy of their explanatory narrative, and their psychological resonance. Knowledge is hierarchical*, and it may well be that a slender knowledge of the highest things is worth more than a complete knowledge of the meanest.

Best wishes, 2RM.

*If you doubt this, consider the progression of dependency from logic, to mathematics, to physics, to chemistry, to biology, through the social sciences, humanities and arts, to philosophy, and finally to theology.
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