What is "Sex"?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 113 times

What is "Sex"?

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

I don't really condone Bill Clinton's famous lie, because it was clearly intended to deceive, but I actually agree with it.

I don't consider anything to be true sexual intercourse unless it carries the possibility of producing offspring. Oral sex? Sex with a condom? I consider that masturbation with two people. I don't consider what Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski did to be measurably different than one of them peeping at the other in the bathroom or pasting the other's head on random naked pictures (we'll say with consent, so it'll be equal in that way). What does touching change? Even very nasty touching? To me, nothing, if the touching can't make babies.

Question for debate: Is there any precedence for this view in either religious or secular philosophy?

Dimmesdale
Sage
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: The Temple of Logic
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Re: What is "Sex"?

Post #2

Post by Dimmesdale »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:00 pm I don't really condone Bill Clinton's famous lie, because it was clearly intended to deceive, but I actually agree with it.

I don't consider anything to be true sexual intercourse unless it carries the possibility of producing offspring. Oral sex? Sex with a condom? I consider that masturbation with two people. I don't consider what Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski did to be measurably different than one of them peeping at the other in the bathroom or pasting the other's head on random naked pictures (we'll say with consent, so it'll be equal in that way). What does touching change? Even very nasty touching? To me, nothing, if the touching can't make babies.

Question for debate: Is there any precedence for this view in either religious or secular philosophy?
I don't think the wrongfulness of "sex" (or sexual conduct) consists in anything procreative. Procreation may be sex seen in its best light, but when it comes to matters sexual, its deviations come in the form of how the emotional life is corrupted, step by step as it were, from a platform of purity and wholeness to greater perversion and flattening of affections, away from any object of fidelity, to mere fixation of gratification. There are many "doorways" by which this breach can be had, and those include procreative and non-procreative avenues. In the end, it's more than sex -- it's where your ultimate loyalty lies.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

nobspeople
Sage
Posts: 990
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 160 times

Re: What is "Sex"?

Post #3

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:00 pm I don't really condone Bill Clinton's famous lie, because it was clearly intended to deceive, but I actually agree with it.

I don't consider anything to be true sexual intercourse unless it carries the possibility of producing offspring. Oral sex? Sex with a condom? I consider that masturbation with two people. I don't consider what Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski did to be measurably different than one of them peeping at the other in the bathroom or pasting the other's head on random naked pictures (we'll say with consent, so it'll be equal in that way). What does touching change? Even very nasty touching? To me, nothing, if the touching can't make babies.

Question for debate: Is there any precedence for this view in either religious or secular philosophy?
Curious: outside of religious and secular, to what other options are you referring or suggesting as possibilities?

User avatar
Miles
Guru
Posts: 1878
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Re: What is "Sex"?

Post #4

Post by Miles »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:00 pm I don't really condone Bill Clinton's famous lie, because it was clearly intended to deceive, but I actually agree with it.
Okay, you have a very narrow definition of "sex." So what? I have a much broader definition of "sex." So what? You use "sex" in your way, and I and others will use "sex" in our way.
I don't consider anything to be true sexual intercourse unless it carries the possibility of producing offspring. Oral sex? Sex with a condom? I consider that masturbation with two people. I don't consider what Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski did to be measurably different than one of them peeping at the other in the bathroom or pasting the other's head on random naked pictures (we'll say with consent, so it'll be equal in that way). What does touching change? Even very nasty touching? To me, nothing, if the touching can't make babies.
Fine, but just as a matter of interest, and nothing else:


Definition of Common Terms:

Sex Act
A sex act is sexual contact between two or more persons by penetration of the penis into the vagina or anus; contact between the mouth and genitalia or by contact between the genitalia of one person and the genitalia or anus of another person; contact between the finger or hand of one person and the genitalia or anus of another person, or by use of artificial sexual organs or substitutes therefore in contact with the genitalia or anus.
source

,

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 113 times

Re: What is "Sex"?

Post #5

Post by Purple Knight »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:32 amCurious: outside of religious and secular, to what other options are you referring or suggesting as possibilities?
I meant it to be open to any. Religious, secular, or other.
Miles wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:10 pmOkay, you have a very narrow definition of "sex." So what? I have a much broader definition of "sex." So what? You use "sex" in your way, and I and others will use "sex" in our way.
Good. I do have reasons for going against the dictionary, however. I consider that I have the better categorisation that the dictionary has the less useful one. Just by that definition, for example your proctologist can't do his job without committing a sex act. Just think what this means if a baby has a problem in that area.

User avatar
Miles
Guru
Posts: 1878
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Re: What is "Sex"?

Post #6

Post by Miles »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:49 am
Miles wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:10 pmOkay, you have a very narrow definition of "sex." So what? I have a much broader definition of "sex." So what? You use "sex" in your way, and I and others will use "sex" in our way.
Good. I do have reasons for going against the dictionary, however. I consider that I have the better categorisation that the dictionary has the less useful one. Just by that definition, for example your proctologist can't do his job without committing a sex act. Just think what this means if a baby has a problem in that area.
"Proctologist"? And "Just think what this means if a baby has a problem in that area."? I don't think that word means what you think it does.


.

nobspeople
Sage
Posts: 990
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 160 times

Re: What is "Sex"?

Post #7

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:49 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:32 amCurious: outside of religious and secular, to what other options are you referring or suggesting as possibilities?
I meant it to be open to any. Religious, secular, or other.
I get that. What I meant was, other than religious and secular, what other options are there? Anything specific?

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 113 times

Re: What is "Sex"?

Post #8

Post by Purple Knight »

Miles wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:03 amI don't think that word means what you think it does.
I didn't misuse any words and my point stands. You can easily look up what proctologist means.
A proctologist, also known as a colon and rectal surgeon or coloproctologist, is a surgical specialist who focus his or her abilities for the purpose of diagnosing and treating maladies of the colon, rectum or anus.

So if sex act includes finger-to-anus, and a proctologist touches the anus for the purposes of (for example) evaluating or detecting polyps, that's a sex act. And if the patient is a child, that doctor has just committed rape.

That is why I think the dictionary's definition of sex act (or sex) is too broad and too inclusive and my narrow definition is better. The worst consequence of my definition is that when someone grabs your breast on the train or bus or the like, that's not rape... but it's still assault. It can still be be sexually motivated and you can punish based on that (though I don't think it's a good idea).
nobspeople wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:15 amI get that. What I meant was, other than religious and secular, what other options are there? Anything specific?
Not that I can think of unless someone specifically defines themselves outside of both categories. Some people say they're "spiritual but not religious" which might qualify.

User avatar
Miles
Guru
Posts: 1878
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Re: What is "Sex"?

Post #9

Post by Miles »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:29 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:03 amI don't think that word means what you think it does.
I didn't misuse any words and my point stands. You can easily look up what proctologist means.
A proctologist, also known as a colon and rectal surgeon or coloproctologist, is a surgical specialist who focus his or her abilities for the purpose of diagnosing and treating maladies of the colon, rectum or anus.

So if sex act includes finger-to-anus, and a proctologist touches the anus for the purposes of (for example) evaluating or detecting polyps, that's a sex act. And if the patient is a child, that doctor has just committed rape.
Nah. Don't buy it. You didn't say "child," but "baby." Here let me refresh your memory.

"for example your proctologist can't do his job without committing a sex act. Just think what this means if a baby has a problem in that area."


So mom brings in baby Juniper because she's having some kind of proctological problem, and Dr. Peter Pederaster can hardly wait to get his hands on some little kid's butt. Cconsidering the extremely small size of a baby's anus just what kind of hanky-panky do you see going on, particularly when the rectum opening of a 1-11 months-old baby is around 1.3 cm (0.5118 in.) ?
That is why I think the dictionary's definition of sex act (or sex) is too broad and too inclusive and my narrow definition is better.
Thing is, dictionaries don't make up definitions willy-nilly, but are guided by common usage. If a usage becomes popular dictionaries will include it as a definition. If a usage falls out of favor dictionaries will drop it, and this rational has guided dictionary entries for hundreds of years---Nothing new.


.

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 113 times

Re: What is "Sex"?

Post #10

Post by Purple Knight »

Miles wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:56 amNah. Don't buy it. You didn't say "child," but "baby." Here let me refresh your memory.

"for example your proctologist can't do his job without committing a sex act. Just think what this means if a baby has a problem in that area."


So mom brings in baby Juniper because she's having some kind of proctological problem, and Dr. Peter Pederaster can hardly wait to get his hands on some little kid's butt. Cconsidering the extremely small size of a baby's anus just what kind of hanky-panky do you see going on, particularly when the rectum opening of a 1-11 months-old baby is around 1.3 cm (0.5118 in.) ?
For him to stick his little finger in there and check for polyps. According to the dictionary this is a sex act regardless of his motivation. Every doctor who has ever done this has committed a sex act. That's why I dislike the dictionary definition.
Miles wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:56 amThing is, dictionaries don't make up definitions willy-nilly, but are guided by common usage. If a usage becomes popular dictionaries will include it as a definition. If a usage falls out of favor dictionaries will drop it, and this rational has guided dictionary entries for hundreds of years---Nothing new.
Nothing new at all. But I can still point out how that definition is not very useful and leads to things most people would find ridiculous.

Post Reply