Homosexuality: nature or nurture?

[Wootah]

Hi all

As of 29 July 2022. What does the science say? What do you think?

Homosexuality: nature or nurture?

[Jose Fly]

First, what does it matter to you whether it's a choice or innate? If it's a choice, then it's no different than religion and the people who choose to be queer should be free to live as they choose. If it's innate, then it's no different than being tall or short and the people who are born that way should be free to live as they are.

Just for completeness, "choice" and "innate" aren't the only two options. In fact, I didn't even read the OP in terms of choice (even though it's now apparent that's what was intended) because "nature vs. nurture" is usually presented as a difference between innate behaviors and early operant conditioning, neither of which represents a conscious choice.

I see nurture as a sub-category of innate. In either case, the outcome is beyond the person's control or ability to choose differently.

But either way, my second question/point is the main one. If LGBTQ people tell us "I've always been this way", who are any of us to tell them they're wrong?

[brunumb]

[Replying to Wootah in post #8]

To my mind, there is so much wrong with what you have said that I can't see you being persuaded by any arguments here. Never mind. The clip below might enlighten you, and other readers, on sexuality and genetics among other things.

[Wootah]

[Replying to brunumb in post #12]

We will see. A lot of things are natural. For instance cowardice is natural but it is not something to encourage is it?

It's complex. Cowards are more likely to survive and reproduce.

[Jose Fly]

[Replying to brunumb in post #12]

We will see. A lot of things are natural. For instance cowardice is natural but it is not something to encourage is it?

It's complex. Cowards are more likely to survive and reproduce.

I think the bigger question is, why do you care? Some people gay, trans, non-binary, queer, bi....why does that matter to you?

[Wootah]

[Replying to brunumb in post #12]

We will see. A lot of things are natural. For instance cowardice is natural but it is not something to encourage is it?

It's complex. Cowards are more likely to survive and reproduce.

I think the bigger question is, why do you care? Some people gay, trans, non-binary, queer, bi....why does that matter to you?

My interests are wide ranging. I think it is good to have wide ranging interests.

I care for others as well. I don't believe those choices are optimal for the individual.

Why are atheists on a Christian debating forum? Why do you care? I think our reasons might be similar.

[Jose Fly]

My interests are wide ranging. I think it is good to have wide ranging interests.

And that includes other people's sex lives? I hope you appreciate how creepy that seems.

I care for others as well. I don't believe those choices are optimal for the individual.

Isn't that their decision to make? Do you go around policing everyone's decisions on everything to ensure that their choices are "optimal"?

Why are atheists on a Christian debating forum? Why do you care? I think our reasons might be similar.

I hope you appreciate the differences between joining an online debate forum where all the members are there voluntarily, and sticking one's nose in people's private lives without their consent.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #16]

You know there is a topic called evolutionary biology, and all the scientists and researchers and people interested in it. It also seems like people want to teach children in school a wide range of sexual topics - are you protesting that as well?

Actually, I only started this thread to not pollute the other one.

[Difflugia]

My interests are wide ranging. I think it is good to have wide ranging interests.

And that includes other people's sex lives? I hope you appreciate how creepy that seems.

Perhaps we should avoid the kink-shaming. It's popular enough that there are whole genres of multiple media devoted to it.

I saw a movie about it once. I didn't inhale, though. Or whatever.

[Jose Fly]

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #16]

You know there is a topic called evolutionary biology, and all the scientists and researchers and people interested in it. It also seems like people want to teach children in school a wide range of sexual topics - are you protesting that as well?

Actually, I only started this thread to not pollute the other one.

Noted.

[Jose Fly]

Perhaps we should avoid the kink-shaming. It's popular enough that there are whole genres of multiple media devoted to it.

I saw a movie about it once. I didn't inhale, though. Or whatever.

This isn't about a kink, it's about what I said earlier, "sticking one's nose in people's private lives without their consent"