Should people "shack-up" before marriage?

[Nickman]

I personally think that when two adults shack-up prior to marriage, they have a better chance of staying married and avoid divorce. This I have concluded from my own logic and experience. If we get to know a person prior to marriage on that level we are able to make a better decision about whether or not we can be married to that person. If we don't shack-up we won't be able to see how that person truly is in that setting. Christians tend to be against shacking-up which I feel has led to the statistics showing that they are more susceptible to divorce than atheists who do tend to shack-up.

What do you say? Should we shack up? Is it beneficial? If not why not?

P.S. Just because "god said so" is not a good answer. Please provide why it is harmful or wrong and the potential problem it could cause.

[otseng]

Is this the wisdom of a teenager?

Moderator Comment

This would be considered a one-liner comment that does not add value to the debate. Also, it would be an indirect attack.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[OnceConvinced]

so people get together to save money, but they don't care what others think about them.

If only so many busy-body, nosy, self-righteous theists'd just quit looking down their noses at such folks, there'd be little reason to not care about such busy-body, nosy, self-righteous theists.

They are being selfish for their own pleasure. This is NOT respectful to their mate (or possible mate at this point) or to themselves.

You have no warrant to tell me I'm not being respectful to my shack-up, nor do you have warrant to tell me I'm being selfish.

I'll not accept anyone accusing me of disrespecting the woman I love, and that includes you, you sanctimonious, self-righteous :censored: .

I’m with you on that Joey. In fact moving in with my lady was a definite act of respect. It was showing her that I valued her and was committed to her. That I was willing to give up a lot of my personal freedom for her and her kids.

Should we care what others think? I’ve spent a lot of my life worrying what others think of me and still do. I see it as a major issue I have and I hate it. I wish I could be freer to be myself and not have to worry about living up to the expectations of others.

As for me and my partner. We moved in together because we felt it was the natural next step. We also believed it was financially advantageous not for just the two of us, but also when it came to the betterment of our children. Both her and my kids would then have more opportunities and a better life style. To think of your family is definitely not selfish.

It seems to me that Justthink has a very pharasitical view of this topic.

[OnceConvinced]

You are not sure of your live-in partner's level of commitment, and you may be living with someone who is promiscuous, and you may get sexual diseases, not to mention if and when you do sleep together

And how does marriage do away with this risk? You could marry someone who is promiscuous and get a sexual disease from them. I married a woman who was a committed Christian but she cheated on me at least three times during our marriage. She could have easily passed a disease on to me because she didn’t take precautions. ‘

Another problem with this whole “wait till marriage before sex� thing is, we as humans are sexual creatures with a drive towards having sex. It’s in our genetic make up. You could say that we were CREATED that way. This results in people rushing into marriage so they can get to the sex part and I have seen it regularly particularly with Christians. That cannot possibly be a good thing.

With my wife at the time, we only had sex occasionally before we were married, but it wasn’t until we were married (a year after we first met) when I really learnt that we just weren’t sexually compatible. If we had been freer to indulge before marriage we may have found out that before we DID get married. But we didn’t so our sex life was very unsatisfying. I would never wait for marriage for sex now because I don’t want to end up with a woman that I’m not sexually compatible with. Is that selfish? The desire to be with a woman who I am compatible with?

so if you are going to mess around, do it without being so obvious, or better yet, just GET MARRIED, and if it turns out you don't want to be together, then you must not love them, and keep looking.

Are you suggesting here that if you get married and then decide it’s not working out, then you can just dump your partner in a selfish manner? Get a divorce? What about the adultery laws?

1. You can have sex any time you want (but how much intimacy can you have?)

That depends on your love for that person. How can you judge the intimacy between a couple married or unmarried?

2. You can get a place to live for cheaper than living alone

That would be a sensible reason for living with someone. It’s why I shared a house with my old high school buddy, so that we could both get out of our parents’ house and have some independence, even though we were both on low incomes. Is it wrong to want to become independent and get out from under the roof of your parents? Was I selfish for sharing a house with my best friend, a member of the same sex? What’s the difference? The only difference I can see is that we had separate bedrooms and weren’t having sex with each other because we were both heterosexual males!

3. You don't have to have any surprises when you DO get married (isn't really as fun, though, in my opinion)

And what if you find out your partner is impossible to live with? Or that sex with your partner is unfulfilling? Or that your partner is a cheat? Or your partner is physically abusive? Many people don’t find this stuff out until they live under the same roof. The bad sides of people can come out when they think they have you snared in a marriage. Have you actually ever been married or shared a place with your girlfriend/boyfriend? Are you in any position to be able to make the presumptions you make?

4. Avoid divorce (if you don't get married)

Makes sense. Why would you want to have to go through a divorce? Have you ever been through a divorce? Have you ever had to deal with the drama and the expense? The emotional side of it? Also take into account the thousands and thousands of dollars you can waste on a marriage ceremony in the first place. Why waste that money when you could do so much better things with it?

5. You can more easily walk out on them (but then is the love deeper, or shallow?)

You can walk out on your wife too if you want. You can stay married, just not live with them!
I can’t speak for others, but when I get involved in a relationship I consider myself committed to a person. I don’t need a bit of paper for that. If you need a signed paper just to prove your commitment to a person then there’s something seriously wrong.

I can't see but one of the above being really convincing, and that is to save money. That reason alone is also selfish. Trust God to provide. He provides for the sparrows. Be patient, respect your date, or future mate, relate, check with the state, then you can cohabitate... hey, nice jingle there![/b]

But in reality God doesn’t provide for the sparrows. They have to fend for themselves. And there are millions of people all over the world suffering in poverty. There are also millions who blow their money on gambling, drugs and alcohol and their families are not being provided for by God. There are people crying out to him all over the world and their prayers are not being answered.

Saving money is not selfish. What if you are in huge debt and struggling to make ends meet? Is it selfish to move in with someone else then? What if it was a friend of the same sex or a family member? Does that change things? If so why? Isn’t it just as selfish? Double standards?

It IS sensible to move in with your partner and if you have children to care for, then you want to give them as much security and as much advantages as possible. You are doing what any good parent should do. Also the bible tells us that we should be sensible with our money. We should be good stewards, right? So you do what you need to do to make ends meet.

Just think Justthink

[Justthink]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead]

Maybe I should rephrase the "messing around" quote you quoted me to say, "Those who are messing around before marriage are 'possibly' disrespecting their lover," because not all people feel guilty for premaritally engaging in sexual intercourse. The Bible, however, if one believes it, states clearly that sex is supposed to be saved for marriage.

I am sorry if I was coming across too bold, but I do worry about how I come across to others, and don't want anyone to be thinking of me as living with someone so I can sleep with them, but not commit myself legally to them. (Doesn't it show you are more committed when you marry them?)

[Justthink]

[Replying to post 107 by 10CC]

I have been married, twice. Once I knew the guy for two years, visited him for a long time, almost every day, and yes, did spend the night with him (he had roommates that I encouraged him to have, to make some extra income for a while before we got married) and wore my clothes all night. It is possible to do. I was a virgin until we got married. I was unhappy. For twelve years I was not able to enjoy our sex life, but I knew nothing else. It was the internet that taught me differently. I probably wouldn't have gotten divorced had it not been for someone convincing me I could be happier. The second marriage, I didn't know them well, and DID get married too early, probably for the physical aspect of marriage. I am 45 now, and feel like a teenager starting all over. I don't want to make the mistake of marrying for security or sex. I believe you can know if you are sexually compatible if you spend enough time together holding hands, kissing, and not much other than snuggling. "Things" happen. You can feel it. As for being a teenager, maybe I am. I am mentally starting over, looking to be friends first. Hoping someone out there is smart enough to see that I am worth waiting for. Patience is a virtue. I have been through two divorces, one for 12 years, one for two, and I can say that it can be cheap to get married (second one was in the back yard of his parent's house), and cost a few hundred for the pastor and the license, and yes, he was abusive. It cost me 358 dollars for the divorce, which he agreed to, and paid for. This divorce had no kids, and no personal property to argue over, though. I wouldn't recommend getting married just to get divorced. I didn't plan it. It just happened. I have learned a lot. I hope someone else can learn from me, that you just don't get married for sex. Date for a while.
I would like to say it is important to really know someone. People can put on a facade for years, though, just to use someone's money (I paid 25 grand to fix his teeth, and then he moved on emotionally, looked at pornography after he saw that I didn't have more to spend on him). I do ramble on, and it is because I have A.D.D., so I hope you can forgive me.
I don't know that I would ever get married again. If I did, though, I'd have my own separate bank account, keep the house in my name (thank God I did in the last marriage), and have a prenup.

[10CC]

[Replying to post 115 by Justthink]

I have some questions for you JT and your answers will help in any further discussion.
Did you love your husbands before marrying them?
Did they profess love for you before marriage?
Why do people make love ie have sex?
Why do YOU think it's called "making love"?

[Goat]

I don't know that I would ever get married again. If I did, though, I'd have my own separate bank account, keep the house in my name (thank God I did in the last marriage), and have a prenup.

The separate bank account is one that I stressed to my step daughter quite strongly (she finally got the message after a divorce where she got married much too early). and she came up with the concept of having the apartment in her name.

Boy, I'll be happy when she graduates college.

[10CC]

I don't know that I would ever get married again. If I did, though, I'd have my own separate bank account, keep the house in my name (thank God I did in the last marriage), and have a prenup.

The separate bank account is one that I stressed to my step daughter quite strongly (she finally got the message after a divorce where she got married much too early). and she came up with the concept of having the apartment in her name.

Boy, I'll be happy when she graduates college.

I have been married for forty years and we have never had separate bank accounts. But maybe we are just stupid, stupidly in love? I am bragging but I'm doing it on behalf of my wife who is the ROCK of our very extended family. My daughter has been married to her husband for 12yrs to a man that I told her not to marry and the love that is obvious between them proves me wrong every day. Didn't someone once say not to judge?
The idea that the penultimate expression of love should be withheld until after a meaningless ceremony has taken place is beyond absurd, it is in fact obscene. Especially when we consider where the prohibition came from, MEN who considered women as property.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 114:

Maybe I should rephrase the "messing around" quote you quoted me to say, "Those who are messing around before marriage are 'possibly' disrespecting their lover," because not all people feel guilty for premaritally engaging in sexual intercourse.

I 'preciate that concession. Such indicates to me a willingness to accept new data.

The Bible, however, if one believes it, states clearly that sex is supposed to be saved for marriage.

It also indicates baby against the rock bashing pleases God.

I am sorry if I was coming across too bold, but I do worry about how I come across to others, and don't want anyone to be thinking of me as living with someone so I can sleep with them, but not commit myself legally to them.

I've already changed my will to include my old lady, and her two daughters. I see no reason to ask the government to recognize my own 'marriage', 'cause the state of Georgia, as much as I love it, doesn't recognize as legal a lot of my doings.

(Doesn't it show you are more committed when you marry them?)

Only that you oughta be committed

Commitment ain't in a ceremony, or a piece of paper. It's the putting up with, and doing for someone where commitment shines.

[10CC]

Commitment ain't in a ceremony, or a piece of paper. It's the putting up with, and doing for someone where commitment shines.
_________________

I must commend this post regardless of the chance that the mods will berate me for cheer leading for a post. I don't care, Joey has just defined MARRIAGE and he failed to mention gender or age or capacity or any other irrelevant rubbish that the seriously deluded think counts. But most especially the number ONE thing that is irrelevant to a marriage is RELIGION. For the slow of hearing that means god.