Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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revjoel2013
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Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Post #1

Post by revjoel2013 »

I study the bible and found that premarital sex is not a sin in the bible. This sin is created by Church doctrine. The early church twisted the word fornication to mean sex before marriage. The word fornication actually means having sex with a pagan temple prostitute. The early church fathers redefine the word fornication to mean all sex outside of marriage. This is how the doctrine that premarital sex is a sin started.

Why Should Christians Engage in Premarital Sex / Sex Before Marriage!!!

http://youtu.be/4lSv9kPIx0Q

What does fornication mean in the Bible; Latin Greek and Hebrew or

http://youtu.be/UVAI2TTOcgM[/img]

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Re: Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Post #21

Post by tryme »

[Replying to post 3 by YahDough]



That’s cute, you quotedthe Bible. Try quoting a verse where it says anything about premarital sex.... go ahead, I’ll wait

tryme
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Re: Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Post #22

Post by tryme »

[Replying to post 6 by YahDough]

Interesting.... so if god doesn’t change, is it still cool to stone my so. To death because he is being stubborn? LEV 20:9?

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Post #23

Post by advisor1950 »

The word, “fornication� can be ambiguous, but there are simple solutions for ambiguities in the Bible. All we have to do is find other passages that either support or refute the concept of premarital sex. Paul makes it very clear in 1 Corinthians 7 that sexual relations outside of marriage is not permitted.
I Corinthians 7:8-9 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Jesus stated that God’s institution of marriage was intended for one man and one woman. So the OT references to concubines and multiple wives was never condoned by God.
An additional test is to compare an activity to a higher principle. If the purpose of your question regarding fornication is to provide you the liberty of sleeping around with women, then I would say that you are clearly misapplying your freedom or liberty in Christ. We can go back to 1 Corinthians 7 and see that there are specific instruction for married couples concerning sexuality, but Paul does not provide those same instructions to the unmarried. We can take intuitively surmise that Paul didn’t provide information because it was understood that sex was reserved for marriage. Obviously there was a question similar to yours asked over 2000 years ago.
1 Corinthians 7:1-7 Now regarding the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to abstain from sexual relations. But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.
The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s needs. The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife.
Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. But I wish everyone were single, just as I am. Yet each person has a special gift from God, of one kind or another.
Then there is the golden rule which basically says that we should not harm others but treat them as we wish to be treated. Premarital sex is fraught with danger for both parties in terms of STD’s, but even more so to the woman because of the potential of pregnancy. No matter what form of birth control is used, there is absolutely no full-proof method unless done by surgery which is a pretty permanent solution for a child bearing aged woman to take. Premarital sex is an activity that is subject to an urge which rarely considers the potential consequences. When two people love each other they look to the best for each other. Sleeping around hardly constitutes a love relationship, hence we are using each other. Hardly a Scriptural premise for premarital sex.
So then what about a couple who love each other and are planning to marry? Again, the issue of doing each other no harm applies. I have had the unfortunate experience of knowing a couple who were planning to marry, engaged in premarital sex, got pregnant and the fiancé was killed in an automobile accident before the wedding. Sure, this could have happened immediately after the wedding, but a considerate husband would have purchased life insurance and made certain that his wife and unborn child would be financially secure in the event of his death. If you are planning to marry, are engage in premarital sex, and have secured your fiancés financial future, then I guess we are talking about a very gray area. Of course, you could resort to oral sex, but women generally have a difficult time achieving an orgasm from oral sex. So the man would be the beneficiary absent his fiancé. Doesn’t seem very loving to me. I would wait and make the first time special, but that’s me. As to all other forms of premarital sex, for obvious reasons and others not so obvious, it is not condoned in the Bible nor by common sense.

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Post #24

Post by Falling Light 101 »

I would like to FIRST eXplain that the translators were VERY anti-polygamy

And the Authors of the Bible - In the Original Manuscripts - were NOT Anti Polygamy.

Many changes were made by the translators and I could take days _ Even months eXplaining them all to You - But let's take a look at just one of the many, many ways that the Anti Polygamy translators went about changing the Bible to propagate an Anti polygamy message.

Lets first look at the first eXample here in 1Co_7:2 

- 1Co 7:2  Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 

ok - lets look at - LET EVERY MAN HAVE HIS " OWN " WIFE

First - Please take a quick look at this GOOGLE TRANSLATION OF THE meaning of the word that the translators are claiming says " LET EVERY MAN HAVE HIS " OWN " WIFE "

HEAUTOU - ἑαυτοῦ meaning CLICK HERE www.goo.gl/D2stV4

The word is not OWN- It simply means THEMSELVES.

THEMSELVES - HEAUTOU - HEH-OW-TOO' ) ====
PRONOUN OTHERWISE OBSOLETE AND THE GENITIVE/MEANING
GENITIVE ADJ : SERVING TO EXPRESS OR INDICATE
POSSESSION; "POSSESSIVE PRONOUNS HIM (HER, IT, THEM ALSO [IN
CONJUNCTION WITH THE PERSONAL PRONOUN OF THE OTHER PERSONS SELF (-
SELVES ) OUR (THINE) OWN (-SELVES ),

It never says let Every Man Have His Own Wife.

It says - Let Men Have themselves wives.

ok - Senondly - Lets take a quick look at this this GOOGLE TRANSLATION OF THE meaning of the word - " The auctual word " OWN that is commanded for woman to have their OWN Husband.

IDIOS - ἰ�διος meaning CLICK HERE - www.goo.gl/7SPHRC

AND LET EVERY WOMAN HAVE HER OWN / private - IDIOS HUSBAND

OWN ; - IDIOS - ID'-EE-OS ( OF UNCERTAIN
AFFINITY; PERTAINING TO SELF, THAT IS, ONE'S OWN; BY IMPLICATION PRIVATE OR SEPARATE: HIS ACQUAINTANCE, WHEN THEY WERE ALONE,
APART, ASIDE, DUE, HIS (OWN, PROPER, SEVERAL SEPERATE), HOME, (HER, OUR, THINE, YOUR) OWN (BUSINESS), PRIVATE (-LY), PROPER, SEVERALLY-SEPERATE, THEIR (OWN).

The two words that you see there in Your Translations Own Wife and - Own Husband- The two words OWN and OWN are two totally different greek words and one means THEMSELVES and the other OWN is the Literal word meaning OWN / Private.

The Original Manuscripts Never Command a Man to have His Own Wife.

It simply Says in 1Co 7:2 - Let Men Have Themselves Wives.
The two words Own and Own in 1Co 7:2 are not the same Greek words.

The translators lied - there are many more LIES- I could easily Show You

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Post #25

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 24 by Falling Light 101]
AND LET EVERY WOMAN HAVE HER OWN / private - IDIOS HUSBAND
How does a woman have her own private husband if he shares himself with other women?

Edit: suppose i give you a car exclusively for you. It's your idios car. Then you go out to drive it to find it is gone. You call me to tell me it is stolen but i tell you that i have a set of keys and will drive the car from time to time. Is the car idios yours?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #26

Post by Falling Light 101 »

[font=Arial]I understand what You are saying.

All I was saying is that the Authors of the Original Manuscripts used two different Greek words when applying the order of wives having their " PRIVATE / OWN " husband.

For example - LET EVERY WOMAN HAVE HER OWN / private - IDIOS HUSBAND

OWN ; - IDIOS - ID'-EE-OS - was for a woman.

And another different Greek word was used when saying that Husbands are to have themselves a wife.

the word " OWN " applied to men was ---

HEAUTOU - HEH-OW-TOO' ) ====
PRONOUN OTHERWISE OBSOLETE AND THE GENITIVE/MEANING
GENITIVE ADJ : SERVING TO EXPRESS OR INDICATE
POSSESSION; "POSSESSIVE PRONOUNS HIM (HER, IT, THEM ALSO [IN
CONJUNCTION WITH THE PERSONAL PRONOUN OF THE OTHER PERSONS SELF (- SELVES ) OUR (THINE) OWN (-SELVES.

The word - HEAUTOU - HEH-OW-TOO - was for a man.

When John took Mary alone in private and away from the Cross - the word was
private - alone - OWN ; - IDIOS - ID'-EE-OS .

When two words that are used together in the same sentence are two different words with two different meanings - why pretend that they are the same exact word ?

Even if we do not understand Gods plan of marriage, polygamy and feel that that a woman can not not have a " OWN / PRIVATE " husband when He has multiple wives.

The Authors of the Bible felt that a woman could have each themselves a " Private, Own " Husband and that a man can have themselves, wives - yet, while the Husband was the private, own " ONLY " SINGLE " husband to each individual wife. This was in the mindset of a pro-polygamy message and language structure that is consistent from Genesis to Revelation.

The Trinity Translators reshifted and deleted and erased the : ONENESS " of the Father in Christ and invented a " ONENESS " concept onto marriage - by changing the original message. This is the ONENESS of Trinitarian faith,[/font]

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Post #27

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 26 by Falling Light 101]

Lets keep this simple. Suppose we have two children and one toy. It is nonsense to say you each have your own toy.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Sex inThe Bible for marriage

Post #28

Post by Falling Light 101 »

[font=Arial]Let’s take a look at the facts and if there are any distracters and side trackers, they are always free and at liberty to pick up the toys that they have scattered and strewn across their imaginary playground..

The fact are that - The Greek word that applied to the subject of wives having their { own, private, separate, apart, aside husband is the word - G2398 - ἰ�διος - idios - id'-ee-os - Pertaining to self, privately / private or separate: when they were alone, apart, aside, your) - own (business), private (-ly),

This word is an adjective - Adjectives describe or modify— the nouns and pronouns - that is, they limit or restrict or define and narrow them down, limiting them - to define the meaning of —nouns and pronouns pertaining to a selective description.

Adjectives are - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... ongs=g2398
The Greek word - ( ἰ�διος - idios - id'-ee-os )

is never one time in The Bible - Never - used in the plural form - meaning ( plurally - themselves or yourselves .... - And this word is never one time used in the Bible to simply say ( Yourself, himself or herself ) - it literally mean the complex and strongest and highest meaning (strictly ) of the word OWN. – as your own or their { own, private, separate, apart, aside ) it is always reduced to be used in the singular form that is possible - even in the translation.

Looking through the entire Bible Translation – You will never find this word ending in a plural ( ‘s ) meaning it never once in the Bible ends in a word such as Yourselve(s) or Themselve(s). Not even once.

It is the word in the Bible meaning ( privately, separately – Your OWN ( singular ) It is a private / privacy Adjective referring to You and the pronoun and separate: when they were alone, apart, aside, your) own (business), private (-ly). In the 113 total times that it appears in the translations/

We can see the difference between the meanings and usages of the two different words ( G2398 - ἰ�διος - idios _ applied to the wife and G1438 - ἑαυτοῦ - heautou _ applied to the husband ) and how they are used in the Bible.

Here is an example of the word relating to the wife = G2398 - ἰ�διος - idios - id'-ee-os - in the Bible
Mat_14:13 apart: G2398 - Mat_14:23 apart G2398 - Mat_17:1 apart, G2398 -
Mat_17:19 apart G2398 - Mat_20:17 apart G2398 - Mat_24:3 privately, G2398 -
Mar_4:34 alone, G2398 - Mar_6:31 apart G2398 - Mar_6:32 privately. G2398 -
Mar_7:33 aside G2398 - Mar_9:2 apart by themselves G2398 - Mar_9:28 privately, G2398
Mar_13:3 privately, G2398 - Luk_9:10 privately G2398 - Luk_10:23 privately, G2398 -
Act_23:19 privately, G2398 - - 2Pe_1:20 private G2398 interpretation. -
The word idios: / ἴδιος, Literally means - one's own, distinct – as belonging to one, private, personal; one's own self, people, one's own family, home or property. Ect...

However, the word ( G1438 - ἑαυτοῦ - heautou _ applied to the husband ) is heautou - a reflexive pronoun that is simply referring back to the subject or noun of a sentence. The reflexive pronouns are herself, himself, itself, myself, ourselves, themselves, and yourselves. ... They should divide the berries among themselves. - - Reflective pronouns reflect the personal pronouns such as I — myself. _ you — yourself/yourselves. - He — himself. _ she — herself. _ one — oneself. _ it — itself. _ we — ourselves.
they — themselves.

Here are just a few examples of how this Greek is used in the Bible of the 340
total times that it is used.

Luk 14:26 his G1438 _ Luk_21:30 your selves G1438 _ Act_20:28 yourselves,
Rom_1:24 themselves: G1438 _ 2Co_8:5 selves G1438 _ 2Co_13:5 yourselves, G1438 your... selves,G1438 _ 2Ti_4:3 themselves G1438 _ Jas_1:22 selves. G1438 _
1Pe_3:5 themselves, G1438 _ Mat_3:9 yourselves, G1438 _ Mat_6:34 itself. G1438
Mat_8:22 their G1438 _ Mat_9:3 themselves, G1438 _ Mat_9:21 herself, G1438
Rev_10:3 their G14

This word ( G1438 - ἑαυτοῦ - heautou _ applied to the husband ) is the common simple word pertaining to one own self or Yourself and it is used 340 times - this is used over 3 times usage - compared to the word G2398 - ἰ�διος - idios - id'-ee-os) which is only used 113 times.

The word - ( ἑαυτοῦ / heautou ) that is pertaining to the man - is used three times more than 3 times over / more times - than the Greek word - { ἑαυτοῦ - heautou ) pertaining to the woman. - They are entirely two separate / different Greek words - with two totally separate meanings and usages. - These two different Greek words are used 10 total times in the Bible – together in one single sentences Let’s look at the 10 total times - all of the times - each and single last one of the total 10 times that these two words are used in the same sentence or verse.

Joh_5:18 his ( idios G2398 * private separate, apart ) Father, - VS - as himself ( heautou G1438 * himself ) equal to father

Joh_7:18 himself ( heautou G1438 * himself words ) speaking of himself - VS - his ( idios G2398 * private separate, apart ) own G2398 glory
Act_20:28 yourselves, ( heautou G1438 * you yourself ) - VS - his own ( idios G2398 * private separate, apart ) own G2398 blood.

1Co_7:2 himself ( heautou G1438 * himself ) wife, - VS - her own ( idios G2398 * private, separate, apart ) husband.

1Co_7:37 his ( idios G2398 * private, separate, apart ) will, - VS - his ( heautou G1438 * himself / his ) virgin.
1Ti_2:6 himself ( heautou G1438 * himself / his ) ransom - VS - in His own ( idios G2398 * private, separate, apart ) time.

2Ti_4:3 own( idios G2398 * private, separate, apart ) lusts - VS - to themselves (heautou G1438 * themselves / their ) teachers.

Heb_7:27 his own ( idios G2398 * private, separate, apart ) sins - VS - he offered up himself. ( heautou G1438 * himself / him )
1Pe_3:5 wives adorned themselves, ( heautou G1438 * themselves / them ) being in subjection - VS - unto their own( idios G2398 * private, separate, apart ) husbands:

Jud_1:6 the angels which kept not their( heautou G1438 * their / them ) their first estate, - VS - left their own
( idios G2398 * private, separate, apart ) habitation.

This is the ten total times that these two words are used together in the same exact sentence throughout the entire bible - only ten times. - yet the translators were consistent in properly and correctly using them in the correct meaning and way that properly defines their meaning - yet they change and delete and erase the word in 1Co_7:2 himself ( heautou G1438 * himself ) wife, - VS her own ( idios G2398 * private, separate, apart ) husband. Pretending and denying only { ONE SINGLE TIME THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE BIBLE TRANSLATION } as if the two words are the same exact meaning and the same exact word - ( OWN husband - OWN wife )

while they use it correctly and differently ( and properly in the rest of the 9 other times that they are used and even used together back to back in the same exact verse - together and - all of the total 453 ( total ) times that they are used altogether total - in conclusion - the fact remains that never were these two words used in the same way - using and defining them both together - as both of them a single word with a single indistinguishable, identical exact meaning - and except this one single instance and verse - when the Trinitarian Translators changed it - this one single and solitary time in 1Co_7:2.

If the two words are not the same Greek word and the Translators use them properly in all of the other 453 ( total ) times- why did they make the change to use them as the same meaning and in the same way in only one single verse in the entire Bible - I can demonstrate that their Translators did this in relation to many other verses as well - other verses about marriage and also very much so, concerning the Trinity and the Oneness of God in Yahoshua - they literally deleted, erased and changed and switched and modified and even added words to the verses - to support their own church doctrines and teachings many, many verses.
These are the facts.[/font]

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Post #29

Post by Wootah »

Genesis 4:23 English Standard Version (ESV)
23 Lamech said to his wives:

“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice;
you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say:
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for striking me.
The first instance of polygamy is in the lineage of Cain, which gets wiped out in the flood by God.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #30

Post by Wootah »

I don't see how anything you wrote justifies polygamy in particular. Nothing I read says this means polygamy is OK.

Here are some links I found.

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVansw ... 10-26a.htm

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fu ... eautou.htm

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fu ... /idios.htm

Where is your evidence again?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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