Christian response to homosexual marriage?

[bjs]

Should Christians in the USA support or oppose the legalization of homosexual marriage in their state?

I put this debate topic in this sub-forum because I’m not really interested in atheists’ opinions here, but I do wonder what Christians think.

On the one hand, we do not have to look far in our world to see what happens when people try to enforce their worldview on others. The result is always disastrous. I do not like the idea of Christians trying to legal enforce their worldview.

On the other hand, recent history has shown us that when gay marriage is legalized the right to oppose, or even abstain from involvement, is quickly lost. Opposing or abstaining from homosexual marriage is outlawed on the charge of discrimination. If gay marriage is legalized then we should expect, at the very minimum, that those who are morally opposed to homosexual action will still be required to act in support of homosexual actions if they wish to do business in their state.

I am unsure of the right approach. What do others Christians think?

[no1special]

[Replying to post 124 by Danmark]

Whether it is about not "rounding" the corners of your beard or not wearing blended fabrics, these prohibitions only deal with temporal concerns; issues that are not universal moral issues. I submit that gender issues are in the same category.

The fundamental, or universal moral principle involved deals with promiscuity and the pursuit of sexual pleasure with no regard to a close personal relationship. The essential moral principle has nothing to do with gender. The essence of marriage is that two people have a loving, committed, loyal and exclusive relationship. Whether the two loving partners are of the same or different genders is irrelevant to the essence of the law, the relationship itself.

OK . However , I am still waiting for someone to show me the one instance where same sex relations ( married or not married ) are mentioned in the Bible and are condoned , tolerated or accepted . Why won't you or anyone else show me and shut me up ?

[no1special]

[Replying to post 128 by Danmark]

Where States have recognized same sex marriage and accorded those lawfully married all the rights and obligations of married people, Christians should lovingly respect those marriages and the secular law on marriage, for we know thru Paul's Letter to the Romans that God has told us:

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good."

How does this prove that God approves , condones or accepts same sex relations ( married or unmarried ).

[no1special]

[Replying to post 126 by KCKID]

Romans 1:21-27 King James Version (KJV)

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

It would appear that Paul is referring to those people within the early Christian Church who have rejected 'the truth' and turned instead to the worship of pagan idols and their associated practices. These practices involved - apparently - sexual orgies (as we today might call them) performed with sacred temple prostitutes to appease the gods. There is plenty of information available on the Internet if one wishes to delve into the topic of idol worship. Verse 23 of Romans 1 CLEARLY tells us that 'they' (those who rejected the truth for a lie) exchanged the glory of God for images made to resemble mortal man, birds, animals, etc. How come you missed that part?

Your post might be seen as 1. preaching and, 2. quite deceptive because of its glaring omissions. Romans 1 has nothing to do with homosexuality per se and certainly nothing to do with the topic. I've gone into explaining the 'clobber texts' of the Bible so often to people that I've become little better than a worn out vinyl record. Is it possible once and for all that the leaders of the various Christian denominations can explain these things to their flock so that "I" don't have the task of doing it?

Where does it say , hint , or even suggest that God condones , accepts or approves of same sex relationships weather in or outside of marriage , part of or outside of idol worship or under any other circumstances ?

[GISMYS]

[Replying to post 130 by no1special]

THINK! and open your eyes here is the proof you "say" you are looking for!!!== Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do. The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead. 23 And then, instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they took wood and stone and made idols for themselves, carving them to look like mere birds and animals and snakes and puny[g] men.

24 So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to—yes, vile and sinful things with each other’s bodies. 25 Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they prayed to the things God made, but wouldn’t obey the blessed God who made these things.

26 That is why God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God’s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
They were fully aware of God’s death penalty for these crimes, yet they went right ahead and did them anyway and encouraged others to do them, too. Romans 1:18-32

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 130 by no1special]
.... 22 Claiming themselves to be.... to do them, too. Romans 1:18-32

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[KCKID]

[Replying to KCKID]

Believe God's Word there is no question that God's eternal living inspired(God breathed) Word condemns sexual perversion!==

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Instead of the continued sermon why don't you make an argument against my previous post? Am I wrong in my evaluation of Romans 1 where I claim that the passage you presented has nothing to do with homosexuality as we today use the term but rather with the practices of idolatry? I do sense a Christian fundamentalist mindset behind your posts and this might indicate that actual debate is unlikely. Still, I'm hopeful to be proven wrong.

You say that there is no question that the contents of the Bible are 'God-breathed'. Well, I spent years studying the Bible and I still really have no idea whether or not an all-knowing deity inspired the writers to write what they did. I would suspect that you don't know either. Comments?

Incidentally, the passage you gave above is a corruption of the original text in that the term "homosexual" should not be there. That being the case, why then did you use it with which to try to make your point?

[KCKID]

[Replying to post 130 by no1special]

THINK!

While the above was not directed at me (though I think it was intended for me since it appears to be addressing my previous post) I can honestly say that I do THINK! And, it's because I think that I've arrived through years of Bible study at the place where I am now. In fact, I would advise any Christian fundamentalist to certainly follow your advice and actually THINK!

. . .and open your eyes here is the proof you "say" you are looking for!!!== Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do. The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead. 23 And then, instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they took wood and stone and made idols for themselves, carving them to look like mere birds and animals and snakes and puny[g] men.

Is the above supposed to be proof that I'm wrong in my evaluation of Romans 1? Seems to me like you're agreeing with me.

24 So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to—yes, vile and sinful things with each other’s bodies. 25 Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they prayed to the things God made, but wouldn’t obey the blessed God who made these things.

26 That is why God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God’s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.

They were fully aware of God’s death penalty for these crimes, yet they went right ahead and did them anyway and encouraged others to do them, too. Romans 1:18-32

Well, thanks for the sermon but I'd prefer that you offer some kind of an argument against my claim that 'homosexuality' is not 'the sin' of Romans 1 but rather the practices associated with idolatry.

[GISMYS]

[Replying to post 136 by KCKID]

LOL!!! What do you think tis verse is talking about?========""Their women turned against God’s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
"" this is the sick abomination of sexual perversion!!!DUH!!

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 136 by KCKID]

LOL!!! What do you think tis verse is talking about?========""Their women turned against God’s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
"" this is the sick abomination of sexual perversion!!!DUH!!

Why are you "laughing out loud" about God giving "them up to dishonorable passions," Romans 1:26
I don't understand why it is funny that this "God of Love" has predestined some to heaven and others to be given up to hell.
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will"
_Ephesians 1:11

[GISMYS]

[Replying to post 138 by Danmark]

GOD knows by His foreknowledge those who will chose to believe and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. GOD counts them as His elect and they are predestinated by God, to be sons of God, because He knows of their choice to believe and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. The unbeliever, GOD knows by His foreknowledge will chose to reject God and God's love and they are predestioned to go to hell because of their choice to reject GOD.
BELIEVERS ARE predestinated (elected)by God because GOD saw them choose HIM before creation. God is outside time, we humans live on a time line created for mankind and we choose believe or reject,we choose good or evil,to live in the light or darkness.=ALL our choice Adam-----------------------------------------------End of this age. God sees adam today=NOW and God sees the end of this age today=NOW!!