Will gays EVER be accepted by mainstream Christianity?

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KCKID
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Will gays EVER be accepted by mainstream Christianity?

Post #1

Post by KCKID »

The Mainstream Christian Church (i.e. the 'Christian Church' in general) appears to have an unshakable belief that gay people cannot possibly be Christians. Therefore gay people will always be regarded as 'lepers' because the mainstream Church believes that homosexuality is against the will of God and the actual practicing of such is a 'grave sin'. This is in spite of the fact that nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality referred to as a grave sin. This more comes from the minds of people who have received a life time of brainwashing into believing this. Where homosexual activity IS mentioned in scripture it almost always - in fact, PROBABLY always - refers to the practice of idolatry and not as WE today refer to homosexuality. There are those Christians who are so appalled at the notion that gay people might desire to integrate with 'actual Christians' within their Church community that they suggest gays start their own denomination ...minus the 'Christian' prefix, of course, which would be sacrilege. Such folks want nothing to do with homosexual people and their minds appear to be set on this.

Below is a recent item from The Guardian that tells of the plight of gay Christians in Uganda. In our particular neck of the woods (probably the majority of those of us who participate on the forum) gays have no fear of state imposed death or life imprisonment as do those in places such as Uganda. Gays do, however, have a stigma placed on them by most Christians that results in rejection by the mainstream Church and, indeed, by God himself. And, of course, the rejection of God is tantamount to death or, worse still, eternal torment. The latter makes the penalty imposed on gays in Uganda pale by comparison.

Will mainstream Christianity ever be accepting of people whose only 'sin' is that they happen to be gay ...i.e. an involuntary sexual attraction between two people of the same gender? If not, why not? Please, give your HONEST reasons.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/f ... ry-kampala

Sunday is a special day in Uganda, the conservative east African country that is threatening to put gay people behind bars for life. On Sunday you can see families flocking to churches all over the country for prayer, wearing their best clothes.

The sermons are predictable. Church leaders will pray for divine intervention against the corrupt leaders, poverty and the potholed roads, and then finally call doom upon the country's homosexuals who are sinning against the Christian God and ruining African culture.

But not at a tiny church tucked away in one of Kampala's suburbs. Here, gay people meet in devoted challenge to mainstream denominations that have declared them outcasts. With dread-locked hair and in jeans and bathroom slippers, members of this congregation would stand out in the prim and proper evangelical church I sometimes go to. I feel overdressed in my white dress.

"Here we are all about freedom," Pepe Onziema, a gay rights activist tells me. "It is a universal church. We welcome people whether gay or straight."

The gates may be open but the road to the church that calls itself a friendship and reconciliation centre is not paved with sleek cars or thronged with believers. The worshippers trickle in. They take their seats, but not before surveying the crowd furtively, trying to identify everyone. Their life depends on this vigilance.

In Uganda, police raid homes and arrest those they suspect to be gay. Homosexuality is an offence under the penal code. The president, Yoweri Museveni, refuses to pass a bill that seeks to strengthen the punishments for homosexuality to include life imprisonment, but isn’t under pressure to do so. Conservative Christian churches, under the auspices of the Uganda Joint Christian Council, refuse to accept homosexuals in spite of more gay-friendly approaches from parent churches abroad. The anti-gay furnace is fanned by American evangelical churches that have made it their mission to free Africa of homosexuality, saying it is alien to African culture.

The gay Ugandan church seeks to spread an alternative gospel of love and acceptance for all. On this particular Sunday, it is the memorial of David Kato, a gay rights activist who was murdered in 2011. So the numbers are bigger than usual. When the church was started by Bishop Christopher Senyonjo (who has since been thrown out of the Anglican Church for ministering to gay people), the gay community in Uganda attended devotedly. But with arrests and growing anti-gay sentiments, threats to their lives and arrests, fewer and fewer people come to the church.

"Our numbers have reduced ever since we started in 2008," Denis, the chaplain and a primary school teacher, tells me. "It is worse now that the bill has been passed." If Denis's employees knew of his orientation or his calling, he would certainly lose his job. "This is the only place we can feel at home. Here we can worship God without feeling guilty or fearing persecution."

Joining a gay congregation in Uganda is risky but Onziema says it is necessary in a society that greatly values community. For on Sundays, when many Ugandans spend time with their families, most gay people have nowhere to go. "Coming here lets us know that we are not alone and gives us the strength to continue the struggle," Onziema says.

You can see both hope and fear in the eyes of the congregation as they read Bible verses proclaiming God's protection over them and sing "What a friend we have in Jesus".

Here, there are no thunderous shouts of praise, speaking in tongues or Bible-thumping that is characteristic of the evangelism that is so trendy in the country. In the quiet worship of Uganda's gay community, there is a still hope and the kind of courage you can only muster after you have seen it all and there is nothing left to fear. Sunday is also the day gay people in Uganda cast off their masks to chat about the latest fashion, cars and celebrities.

"You thought we were going to pray that God stops the anti-homosexuality bill," Mugisha, the head of Sexual Minorities Uganda, asks me with laughter and mischief in his voice. "It will not pass. We do not need to pray for that."

Mugisha is for a moment free from his job, his life, fighting for the basic human rights of gay people. "I come here for the community. It is better than staying home alone," he says. As the service ends, members of the congregation are asked to say something in memory of David Kato, whose spirit of resilience they will need as they walk out of the church into their daily routine.

"We know he did not die in vain," Mugisha says. "One day we shall be accepted."

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Post #481

Post by KCKID »

99percentatheism wrote:
KCKID wrote: [Replying to post 461 by 99percentatheism]

Hmmm . . .I've been debating this topic with you for what seems like forever, 99percent. However, I don't recall having asked you this simple question: In your opinion WHAT IS IT specifically about homosexuality that is 'wrong'? Why is it wrong? Moreover, if gay marriage becomes nationally recognized - in your case the U.S.A., in my case Australia - in your opinion, WHAT IS IT specifically that will cause 'the sky to fall' and how will this negatively affect society?

Please, just respond to the questions with simple, reader-friendly language and try to keep the 'religious padding' to a minimum. If your answer/s is/are convincing then there might be some of us who could possibly swing your way regarding this topic. But, 'your case' must be convincing. So far that has not been the case so here is your chance to perhaps win over some of us who would normally disagree with you.

Thank you.
99percentatheism wrote:I cannot do what you require because it would entail referencing and providing web-based material that would get me banned. All I can do is offer a counter position to the incessant pro homosexuality positions and propaganda of gay culture and the gay agenda, as it attacks The Church and that I encounter it here.
As has already been pointed out to you, why would your referencing and providing web-based material in order to respond to a question asked of you get you banned? All I'm trying to get from you is, "WHY, in your opinion, is homosexuality and, especially, gay marriage, a bad thing?" You see, I simply don't buy into this drama that the sky will fall when gay marriage becomes nationally accepted and I'm wondering why you and others of this mindset appear to believe this. I also don't buy into this nonsense (sorry, but 'nonsense' is what it appears to be) that a big part of the alleged 'gay agenda' is to discredit and destroy the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. I purposely avoided using the term 'mainstream Christianity' because in my opinion some portions of it, the man-made but passed off as 'Jesus-breathed' hateful stuff, deserves to be destroyed.
99percentatheism wrote:And, having encountered so many gay pride proponents, I do not at all believe that there is even one pro homosexuality adherent here that will be persuaded to leave their ideology and the choices they have grasped so firmly.
Have you not considered that the people that you refer to are simply not convinced by your particular argument? To oppose people whose sexuality appears to be genetic "because the Bible says" is not only not a convincing argument to those who don't care what the Bible may or may not say about the topic but also to many Christian people who ALSO don't hold to much of what the Bible says because they have more of an understanding as to what it actually means. The latter mentioned folks have figured out what applies and what does not apply with regard to 'what makes a good Christian'. It's not even a matter of 'legalism' (which is also wrong) in your case but, in my opinion, a complete misunderstanding of the ambiguous scriptures that you use to condemn homosexuality.
99percentatheism wrote:I am not here to evangelize homosexuals and their legion of supporters. I am here to contend for the faith delivered only once to the saints. And I am confident that honesty, logic and the work done by the Apostles support the positions I provide.
It's really all black and white to you, isn't it, 99percent? And, as long as it is, how can one reasonably debate this topic with you?

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Post #482

Post by 99percentatheism »

KCKID
99percentatheism wrote:
KCKID wrote: [Replying to post 461 by 99percentatheism]

Hmmm . . .I've been debating this topic with you for what seems like forever, 99percent. However, I don't recall having asked you this simple question: In your opinion WHAT IS IT specifically about homosexuality that is 'wrong'? Why is it wrong? Moreover, if gay marriage becomes nationally recognized - in your case the U.S.A., in my case Australia - in your opinion, WHAT IS IT specifically that will cause 'the sky to fall' and how will this negatively affect society?

Please, just respond to the questions with simple, reader-friendly language and try to keep the 'religious padding' to a minimum. If your answer/s is/are convincing then there might be some of us who could possibly swing your way regarding this topic. But, 'your case' must be convincing. So far that has not been the case so here is your chance to perhaps win over some of us who would normally disagree with you.

Thank you.
99percentatheism wrote:I cannot do what you require because it would entail referencing and providing web-based material that would get me banned. All I can do is offer a counter position to the incessant pro homosexuality positions and propaganda of gay culture and the gay agenda, as it attacks The Church and that I encounter it here.
As has already been pointed out to you, why would your referencing and providing web-based material in order to respond to a question asked of you get you banned?
The nature of the material. To show gay culture one must actually show gay culture in celebration and action. The material would be so obscene my enemies here would jump at the chance ti finally finish me off.
All I'm trying to get from you is, "WHY, in your opinion, is homosexuality and, especially, gay marriage, a bad thing?"
It is is promoted to other people's children and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
You see, I simply don't buy into this drama that the sky will fall when gay marriage becomes nationally accepted and I'm wondering why you and others of this mindset appear to believe this.
History is important to us. Homosexuality has been driven out of societies for a reason. You've read my reference material on the history of homosexuality. Why isn't it the wonderful freedom delivering behavior so many of you say it is if it has been driven into the closet every where on earth?
I also don't buy into this nonsense (sorry, but 'nonsense' is what it appears to be) that a big part of the alleged 'gay agenda' is to discredit and destroy the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.
That's just ignoring reality. That gays versus Christians exists right now and always has since Nero and Hadrian is not a myth. I have to be so incredibly careful with what I write, but suffice it to say, not one person has entered a post in my new thread. That is because there is no compatibility between the gay agenda and the Gospel agenda.
I purposely avoided using the term 'mainstream Christianity' because in my opinion some portions of it, the man-made but passed off as 'Jesus-breathed' hateful stuff, deserves to be destroyed.
As Jesus predicted.
99percentatheism wrote:And, having encountered so many gay pride proponents, I do not at all believe that there is even one pro homosexuality adherent here that will be persuaded to leave their ideology and the choices they have grasped so firmly.
Have you not considered that the people that you refer to are simply not convinced by your particular argument?
I am not contending for the faith for them. My positions are not evangelization. And that is not even the case because there is a rule against it. It is a waste of time. I am not juts out of college. I have lived in the real world for quite a few decades now.
To oppose people whose sexuality appears to be genetic "because the Bible says" is not only not a convincing argument to those who don't care what the Bible may or may not say about the topic but also to many Christian people who ALSO don't hold to much of what the Bible says because they have more of an understanding as to what it actually means.
Whatever. These gay theologians have to deny the words of the Bible because there is not one open pronouncement of support for their new definitions. Where is the mass migration of new Christian converts to gay denominations? None of you seem to be flocking to convert in any of those gay denoms.

By their fruit you will know them.
The latter mentioned folks have figured out what applies and what does not apply with regard to 'what makes a good Christian'.
Yeah, whatever fits their desires and demands. But, once again, there is no support from the Bible for that kind of theology either.
It's not even a matter of 'legalism' (which is also wrong) in your case but, in my opinion, a complete misunderstanding of the ambiguous scriptures that you use to condemn homosexuality.
There is not even a shred of pro homosexuality statements in the entire Bible. Sexuality and marriage are immutably man and woman/husband and wife. That certain kinds of people refuse to want to believe that and will invent a religion that fits their whims, was expected. That's an old story.
99percentatheism wrote:I am not here to evangelize homosexuals and their legion of supporters. I am here to contend for the faith delivered only once to the saints. And I am confident that honesty, logic and the work done by the Apostles support the positions I provide.
It's really all black and white to you, isn't it, 99percent?
I post honestly, not politically correct propaganda.
And, as long as it is, how can one reasonably debate this topic with you?
There is solid black and white positions in the Bible whether or not they make you and gay pride proponents upset or not. I am just following the honest path and not inventing a new Christianity just because I want to force it to my will. The hatred certain people here have for me is quite easy to take. My future does not hold kowtowing to pop culture as its goal.

Now, if you will produce ANY perfectly pro gay statements from the Bible, then please produce them. In fact, there is a new thread designed just for that. Otherwise, you should respect the honesty of the opposition to the gay agenda and gay culture that so many Christians have the right and justification to hold.

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Post #483

Post by KCKID »

99percentatheism wrote: KCKID
99percentatheism wrote:
KCKID wrote: [Replying to post 461 by 99percentatheism]

Hmmm . . .I've been debating this topic with you for what seems like forever, 99percent. However, I don't recall having asked you this simple question: In your opinion WHAT IS IT specifically about homosexuality that is 'wrong'? Why is it wrong? Moreover, if gay marriage becomes nationally recognized - in your case the U.S.A., in my case Australia - in your opinion, WHAT IS IT specifically that will cause 'the sky to fall' and how will this negatively affect society?

Please, just respond to the questions with simple, reader-friendly language and try to keep the 'religious padding' to a minimum. If your answer/s is/are convincing then there might be some of us who could possibly swing your way regarding this topic. But, 'your case' must be convincing. So far that has not been the case so here is your chance to perhaps win over some of us who would normally disagree with you.

Thank you.
99percentatheism wrote:I cannot do what you require because it would entail referencing and providing web-based material that would get me banned. All I can do is offer a counter position to the incessant pro homosexuality positions and propaganda of gay culture and the gay agenda, as it attacks The Church and that I encounter it here.
As has already been pointed out to you, why would your referencing and providing web-based material in order to respond to a question asked of you get you banned?
99percentatheism wrote:The nature of the material. To show gay culture one must actually show gay culture in celebration and action. The material would be so obscene my enemies here would jump at the chance ti finally finish me off.
Correct me if I'm wrong but is the material you're referring to pertaining to the Folsom Street Fair in San Francisco? If so, are you implying that this form of glaring exhibitionism is really indicative of the lifestyle of the average gay person? Surely not.

By the way, I don't believe that you have any enemies on this forum ...just people who might not agree with your particular take on this issue. I'm certainly not your enemy.

All I'm trying to get from you is, "WHY, in your opinion, is homosexuality and, especially, gay marriage, a bad thing?"
99percentatheism wrote:It is is promoted to other people's children and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
'Promiscuous' or casual heterosexual sex is promoted on TV sitcoms on a daily basis and tens of thousands of kids watch these shows, probably unsupervised by their parents since they are also watching. Is that okay with you or is it just 'gay stuff' that you object to? One of my favorites, for instance, and a hugely popular TV show all around the world - The Big Bang Theory - has Leonard (normally a most likable guy) willing to sell out his friends for a few minutes roll in the sack with Penny. As for Howard and Rajesh ...even though presented in an over-the-top and humorous manner they continually fantasize having sex and letting their audience know this. They carry condoms around with them on the off-chance that they get lucky, even though mostly they strike out. Penny, also likable, is or has been willing fair game for any number of men so we - the audience - are told.

What, precisely, is it that you want to protect children from, 99percent?

You see, I simply don't buy into this drama that the sky will fall when gay marriage becomes nationally accepted and I'm wondering why you and others of this mindset appear to believe this.
99percentatheism wrote:History is important to us. Homosexuality has been driven out of societies for a reason.
But not adultery or 'promiscuous' heterosexual sex? How come 'society' has tolerated, i.e. not driven out, the rampant sexual practices that occur outside of marriage? Do you not see why your comments on this subject ring hollow with me?
99percentatheism wrote:You've read my reference material on the history of homosexuality. Why isn't it the wonderful freedom delivering behavior so many of you say it is if it has been driven into the closet every where on earth?
Why homosexuality in particular? What about reference material on the history of frequent casual sex among the heterosexual community, unwanted pregnancies and subsequent abortions? Or, how about reference material on extra-marital affairs that end in divorce oftentimes resulting in psychological and behavioral problems for the children of such broken families? Again, why homosexuality in particular?
I also don't buy into this nonsense (sorry, but 'nonsense' is what it appears to be) that a big part of the alleged 'gay agenda' is to discredit and destroy the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.
99percentatheism wrote:That's just ignoring reality. That gays versus Christians exists right now and always has since Nero and Hadrian is not a myth. I have to be so incredibly careful with what I write, but suffice it to say, not one person has entered a post in my new thread. That is because there is no compatibility between the gay agenda and the Gospel agenda.
I hadn't noticed your new thread but I'll check it out.
I purposely avoided using the term 'mainstream Christianity' because in my opinion some portions of it, the man-made but passed off as 'Jesus-breathed' hateful stuff, deserves to be destroyed.
99percentatheism wrote:As Jesus predicted.
I don't think that Jesus ever predicted that 'hateful stuff' would in the future be passed off as being "Jesus-breathed" or that those who would do so would find His approval.

That's it for now. It's getting late.

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Post #484

Post by 99percentatheism »

[Replying to post 479 by KCKID]
I don't think that Jesus ever predicted that 'hateful stuff' would in the future be passed off as being "Jesus-breathed" or that those who would do so would find His approval.
How true. How prophetic really. To think that people that believe as Jesus does that marriage is between a man and a woman are now charged as bigots, hateful and "homophobic" is truly shocking. But of course very telling to the times in which we all live. Like Jesus said, the world hated Him first. We should expect no less.

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Post #485

Post by Wordleymaster1 »

[Replying to post 473 by dianaiad]
the government should stay the heck out of it.
Amen. Though that's only going to happen in fantasy land - the government is too involved in it now. #-o But the blame for that goes to the religious people anyway as far as I'm concerned. It's a case of having your cake and eating it too.
It's weird to me though - why the interest in the WORD and not the DEED. I suppose it's a cultural thing really - religious people want their word because they think it's THEIR word and others want to be equal when in fact we're not all equal (I'm far better than most people :eyebrow: ).
When it comes to legalities though, we should all be equal in as much of our personal psyche, no matter what it's 'called' or what one group lays claim to it over another.
I wonder though, why are the religions people so against using the word 'marriage' with gay people? Doesn't it speak to a more fundamental hate and fear of gay people than simply protecting the word itself?

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Post #486

Post by 99percentatheism »

Wordleymaster1 wrote: [Replying to post 473 by dianaiad]
the government should stay the heck out of it.
Amen. Though that's only going to happen in fantasy land - the government is too involved in it now. #-o But the blame for that goes to the religious people anyway as far as I'm concerned. It's a case of having your cake and eating it too.
It's weird to me though - why the interest in the WORD and not the DEED. I suppose it's a cultural thing really - religious people want their word because they think it's THEIR word and others want to be equal when in fact we're not all equal (I'm far better than most people :eyebrow: ).
When it comes to legalities though, we should all be equal in as much of our personal psyche, no matter what it's 'called' or what one group lays claim to it over another.
I wonder though, why are the religions people so against using the word 'marriage' with gay people? Doesn't it speak to a more fundamental hate and fear of gay people than simply protecting the word itself?
Religious people or "Bible-affirming Christians?" There are many religious people that condone, support, encourage and promote homosexuality.

Why do homosexuals want to force others to affirm and celebrate gay behavior? Is it because they "hate" anyone that doesn't?

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Post #487

Post by 99percentatheism »

Deidre32
[Replying to post 473 by dianaiad]
Religion didn't invent marriage. Marriage is a legal contract, and religion hijacked it, like it does everything else, in order to put its silly spin on it. 'GOD' said one man and one woman. God frowns on divorce, bla bla bla.
The criminal courts system frowns on divorce, or rather "children born out of wedlock." Since I have visited and worked with hundreds of "people in the system," the massive majority come from "broken homes."
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...CHRISTIANS are currently the ones getting divorced the most in the U.S. They have the highest divorce rate.
How many "Christians" are having "pre-marital sex?" And what if we compare every act of sex to "being married?" Like you show, that IS history. Then what happens to the percentages between the godless or the Believers? A purity, or Promise ring? to the secularist (or Pagan, as you show) is laughable for a reason. How many children are "born out of wedlock?" but are really the product of the pagan concept of "marriage" that predates Christian and Jewish histiry? Just history repeating itself huh? Now let's look up those percentages again shall we?
Those inconvenient truths keep popping up. lol
The horrors of licentiousness are nothing to lol about.
If you want to have a religious ceremony to celebrate your legal marital contract, great. But, it actually was 'invented' by Pagans. Not religious-folk. Most likely to ensure stability for communities and children. The 'God factor' came many moons later.
So then also was fatherless children "invented" by pagans. So we can put things into their proper historical context and definition. Now we can place blame for the crisis in society to the proper worldviews and actions. Not only fatherless households and that result of filing our dropout rates and criminal courts, but also the continued use of women by men for pleasure with no accountability.

Man I love history forgotten and rediscovered as a guide to the present. Hardly ever disappoints.

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Post #488

Post by Wordleymaster1 »

[Replying to post 482 by 99percentatheism]
Religious people or "Bible-affirming Christians?"
Anyone who practices a Christian religion no matter what you think of them or if you think they are right or wrong
Why do homosexuals want to force others to affirm and celebrate gay behavior?
Why do you think gay people want you around any of their lives? Because gay people want legal rights? Are you a law? Are you the holder of all legal rights in the USA?
Is it because they "hate" anyone that doesn't?
Some might. I would think many people gay AND straight people hate a lot of things for a lot of reasons. This includes Christians. Though, Christians don't seem to be too honest about it many times - they like to hide behind their LEGALLY protected religion to spout their hate and disdain. Kinda' cowardly though smart to me at least. O:)

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Post #489

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99percentatheism wrote:
Wordleymaster1 wrote: [Replying to post 473 by dianaiad]
the government should stay the heck out of it.
Amen. Though that's only going to happen in fantasy land - the government is too involved in it now. #-o But the blame for that goes to the religious people anyway as far as I'm concerned. It's a case of having your cake and eating it too.
It's weird to me though - why the interest in the WORD and not the DEED. I suppose it's a cultural thing really - religious people want their word because they think it's THEIR word and others want to be equal when in fact we're not all equal (I'm far better than most people :eyebrow: ).
When it comes to legalities though, we should all be equal in as much of our personal psyche, no matter what it's 'called' or what one group lays claim to it over another.
I wonder though, why are the religions people so against using the word 'marriage' with gay people? Doesn't it speak to a more fundamental hate and fear of gay people than simply protecting the word itself?
Religious people or "Bible-affirming Christians?" There are many religious people that condone, support, encourage and promote homosexuality.

Why do homosexuals want to force others to affirm and celebrate gay behavior? Is it because they "hate" anyone that doesn't?
No doubt! Furthermore, why do woman want to force others to affirm and celebrate equal rights? Is it because they "hate" anyone that doesn't?

Why do African Americans want to force others to affirm and celebrate that they are equals? Is it because they "hate" anyone that doesn't?

All this forcing being done to me by woman and African Americans. Rally the troops, we must fight the enemy and their agendas!
:roll:

Your "cry" is no different IMO, you just don't realize it because you interpret a holy book in a way to suite "your agenda" and thus feel justified with your unequal treatment of our fellow humans.
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Post #490

Post by Clownboat »

99percentatheism wrote: Deidre32
[Replying to post 473 by dianaiad]
Religion didn't invent marriage. Marriage is a legal contract, and religion hijacked it, like it does everything else, in order to put its silly spin on it. 'GOD' said one man and one woman. God frowns on divorce, bla bla bla.
The criminal courts system frowns on divorce, or rather "children born out of wedlock." Since I have visited and worked with hundreds of "people in the system," the massive majority come from "broken homes."
This has zero to do with what you quoted. Marriage is still a legal contract hijacked by religion.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...CHRISTIANS are currently the ones getting divorced the most in the U.S. They have the highest divorce rate.
How many "Christians" are having "pre-marital sex?" And what if we compare every act of sex to "being married?" Like you show, that IS history. Then what happens to the percentages between the godless or the Believers? A purity, or Promise ring? to the secularist (or Pagan, as you show) is laughable for a reason. How many children are "born out of wedlock?" but are really the product of the pagan concept of "marriage" that predates Christian and Jewish histiry? Just history repeating itself huh? Now let's look up those percentages again shall we?
Once again, it's as if you are responding to the wrong post. Christians are still currently the once getting divorced the most in the US. Your rant seems to make no sense.
Those inconvenient truths keep popping up. lol
The horrors of licentiousness are nothing to lol about.
Either is the holocaust, but so what. What is your point?
If you want to have a religious ceremony to celebrate your legal marital contract, great. But, it actually was 'invented' by Pagans. Not religious-folk. Most likely to ensure stability for communities and children. The 'God factor' came many moons later.
So then also was fatherless children "invented" by pagans. So we can put things into their proper historical context and definition. Now we can place blame for the crisis in society to the proper worldviews and actions. Not only fatherless households and that result of filing our dropout rates and criminal courts, but also the continued use of women by men for pleasure with no accountability.
This rant also doesn't seem to make sense, but at least you are agreeing that marriage is not a religious concept.
Man I love history forgotten and rediscovered as a guide to the present. Hardly ever disappoints.
You need to read up on equal rights and civil rights then.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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