Gay life vs. "homosexual" "acts"

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Gay life vs. "homosexual" "acts"

Post #1

Post by Haven »

Many anti-gay fundamentalist Christians oppose equal rights for the lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) community on the basis that sexual acts between members of the same sex are immoral according to Christian scripture and teaching. These individuals often equate queer identities with those sexual acts, and use that connection to argue in favor of denying LGB people equal protection under the law.

While I dispute that the Bible condemns same-sex sex, for the sake of this discussion I will accept the premise that they is wrong under Christianity.

That aside, homosexuality, and, more broadly, gay life, is so much more than what we do in the bedroom. One's sexuality impacts her/his relationships (obviously), social activities, choice of friends, civil rights, (and often) appearance, voice, and other external characteristics. These have nothing to do with sexual acts, but are all part of gay (and straight!) experiences.

Debate question: Is gay life all about "homosexual" "acts?" Is there more to the LGB experience than sex? Should LGB people have fewer rights because some conservative Christians don't like gay sex?
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Re: Gay life vs. "homosexual" "acts"

Post #2

Post by WinePusher »

Haven wrote:Many anti-gay fundamentalist Christians oppose equal rights for the lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) community on the basis that sexual acts between members of the same sex are immoral according to Christian scripture and teaching.
I don't consider anything about homosexuality to be immoral. However, I think a reasonable, secular argument can be made against the utility and practicality of homosexual acts. Clearly there is no overall benefit to the human race if two or more individuals engage in homosexual acts as they would be unable to procreate. Procreation can only occur under heterosexual acts, not homosexual acts, so there may be a built in evolutionary mechanism that works against homosexual tendencies.

Secondly, I believe the medical research shows that there is a higher rate of HIV among the homosexual community as opposed to the heterosexual community. These are the only two points that prevent me from fully embracing and promoting the 'Gay lifestyle.'
Haven wrote:Debate question: Is gay life all about "homosexual" "acts?" Is there more to the LGB experience than sex? Should LGB people have fewer rights because some conservative Christians don't like gay sex?
Of course not. Being gay only impacts an individuals romantic life, just as being straight only impacts a persons romantic life. Moreover, a persons romantic life shouldn't be centered solely on sexual acts (although that should be a significant part of it 8-)). Personally speaking, I don't care what gay or straight people do in their privacy of their own homes.

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Re: Gay life vs. "homosexual" "acts"

Post #3

Post by Haven »

[color=darkred]WinePusher[/color] wrote: I don't consider anything about homosexuality to be immoral. However, I think a reasonable, secular argument can be made against the utility and practicality of homosexual acts.
Thank you for using reason, and not simply parroting the Bible.
[color=red]WinePusher[/color] wrote:Clearly there is no overall benefit to the human race if two or more individuals engage in homosexual acts as they would be unable to procreate.
I disagree. Although gay sex can't lead to procreation, it can increase the happiness and relational bond between couples who engage in it, which may have wider benefits to the human community in terms of increasing creativity, decreasing depression and crime, and strengthening families and marriages.
[color=tomato]WinePusher[/color] wrote:. . . there may be a built in evolutionary mechanism that works against homosexual tendencies.
Thank you for accepting evolution :).

That may very well be the case, as only about 8-10% of the global population is lesbian, gay, or bisexual. However, there have been studies that have indicated possible evolutionary benefits to homosexuality.
[color=darkorange]WinePusher[/color] wrote:Secondly, I believe the medical research shows that there is a higher rate of HIV among the homosexual community as opposed to the heterosexual community.
This is true of gay men, but not of lesbians. [https://www.womenshealth.gov/publicatio ... lth.html#e]Lesbian women, in fact, are much less likely to get HIV than any other sexually active population (including heterosexuals). [/url]

Gay male sex can be safe with proper protection (HIV screening, condoms, etc.), and there is zero chance of HIV transmission within an exclusive monogamous relationship between two men.
[color=orange]WinePusher[/color] wrote:These are the only two points that prevent me from fully embracing and promoting the 'Gay lifestyle.'
There is no "gay lifestyle"; that is simply a myth pushed by the most extreme sector of the religious right. The only thing all gay people have in common is being attracted to members of the same gender. That's it. Other than that, we're all different. Some are conservative, some are liberal, some are promiscuous, some have been married for 30 years, some like to party, some stay in and spend time with their kids. Gay people lead different lifestyles.
[color=brown]WinePusher[/color] wrote: Of course not. Being gay only impacts an individuals romantic life, just as being straight only impacts a persons romantic life. Moreover, a persons romantic life shouldn't be centered solely on sexual acts (although that should be a significant part of it 8-)). Personally speaking, I don't care what gay or straight people do in their privacy of their own homes.
You get it :).
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Post #4

Post by master_blaster »

Well, I'm homosexual and often am left with similar questions. When i hear someone rant about how the sex act is evil/immoral/weird/disgusting, i'm just really confused because it seems like massive overreaction. When someone concedes that people are likely born gay but then finish with "but the sex act is still a choice of course", it's like they're desperately clinging to a way to condemn homosexuality still.

Yes, technically homosexual acts are a choice. So I should go thru life alone and suppress my feelings forever, and not so much as jerk off either? How many heteros never partake in premarital/extramarital sex or use birth control? The hypocrisy is staggering. I fail to see the big deal either. The sex act is so minor. Whether i act on those attractions, i like being gay because as you say, there's a lot more to it than that. I love guys and love being open about it. It feels amazing.

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Re: Gay life vs. "homosexual" "acts"

Post #5

Post by connermt »

[Replying to post 1 by Haven]
Is gay life all about "homosexual" "acts?"
For some people it is. Though it's important to point out that 'straight people' do commit homosexual acts without being a part of the 'lifestyle'.
Is there more to the LGB experience than sex?
For most people, yes. Though, that isn't true for everyone. See above notation for an example
Should LGB people have fewer rights because some conservative Christians don't like gay sex?
Not any legal rights, no. That said, no religious institution should be forced to accept, perform, authorize, promote, etc and action that's against their belief system.

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Re: Gay life vs. "homosexual" "acts"

Post #6

Post by Goat »

connermt wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Haven]
Is gay life all about "homosexual" "acts?"
For some people it is. Though it's important to point out that 'straight people' do commit homosexual acts without being a part of the 'lifestyle'.
Is there more to the LGB experience than sex?
For most people, yes. Though, that isn't true for everyone. See above notation for an example
Should LGB people have fewer rights because some conservative Christians don't like gay sex?
Not any legal rights, no. That said, no religious institution should be forced to accept, perform, authorize, promote, etc and action that's against their belief system.
Since when is any religious institution being forced to do that? When are churches being forced to marry gay people? Since when are Christians being forced to marry gay people, or have Gay sex, or watch gay porn?
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Post #7

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 2:
WinePusher wrote: ...
as they would be unable to procreate.
...
I find such a commentary quite sad, really, considering how much me and the old lady enjoy the practice of "procreating".

Alas, we never hear of denying rights, or being otherwise opposed to those heterosexuals who are incapable of procreating, where for whatever reason they're unable to have kids.

Nope, such language, and such restrictions, are reserved for those "others" who happen to be homosexuals.
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Re: Gay life vs. "homosexual" "acts"

Post #8

Post by connermt »

Goat wrote:
connermt wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Haven]
Is gay life all about "homosexual" "acts?"
For some people it is. Though it's important to point out that 'straight people' do commit homosexual acts without being a part of the 'lifestyle'.
Is there more to the LGB experience than sex?
For most people, yes. Though, that isn't true for everyone. See above notation for an example
Should LGB people have fewer rights because some conservative Christians don't like gay sex?
Not any legal rights, no. That said, no religious institution should be forced to accept, perform, authorize, promote, etc and action that's against their belief system.
Since when is any religious institution being forced to do that? When are churches being forced to marry gay people? Since when are Christians being forced to marry gay people, or have Gay sex, or watch gay porn?
I didn't say they were, I said they SHOULDN'T be forced to do such things.

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Post #9

Post by Jolly_Penguin »

You could have a point about evolution. Perhaps we evolved that "ick" response to homosexuality as a means to drive genes forward to the next generation.

I have heard that there are studies showing later born children to be more likely to be homosexual than first born children, which if true would go along with that. Once you've passed the genes along to heterosexual children, your likelihood of those genes moving further is good, and it may help to have a non-propagating sibling to help raise the chilren of the propagating sibling, for uncle to help out, including if father dies. Humans take a large investment into small number of children approach. It would be interesting to see if humans and other animals that take this approach are more often homosexual than animals that take a tiny investment into huge number of children approach (like turtles).

None of the above has any bearing on modern human life though, or what should be in our laws. Humans are not an endangered species on the earth. We're the opposite. Perhaps the other side could argue that homosexual coupling means less babies, which means our resources won't be split so thin.

Me myself I have no problem whatsoever with gay men. I feel thankful to them. The more gay men there are, the more women I'll have a chance with ;)

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Post #10

Post by bluethread »

Jolly_Penguin wrote:
Me myself I have no problem whatsoever with gay men. I feel thankful to them. The more gay men there are, the more women I'll have a chance with ;)
However, the more homosexual women, the less you have a chance with. Not to mention those with discerning tastes. :lol:

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