Gay life vs. "homosexual" "acts"

[Haven]

Many anti-gay fundamentalist Christians oppose equal rights for the lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) community on the basis that sexual acts between members of the same sex are immoral according to Christian scripture and teaching. These individuals often equate queer identities with those sexual acts, and use that connection to argue in favor of denying LGB people equal protection under the law.

While I dispute that the Bible condemns same-sex sex, for the sake of this discussion I will accept the premise that they is wrong under Christianity.

That aside, homosexuality, and, more broadly, gay life, is so much more than what we do in the bedroom. One's sexuality impacts her/his relationships (obviously), social activities, choice of friends, civil rights, (and often) appearance, voice, and other external characteristics. These have nothing to do with sexual acts, but are all part of gay (and straight!) experiences.

Debate question: Is gay life all about "homosexual" "acts?" Is there more to the LGB experience than sex? Should LGB people have fewer rights because some conservative Christians don't like gay sex?

[Haven]

You could have a point about evolution. Perhaps we evolved that "ick" response to homosexuality as a means to drive genes forward to the next generation.

I have heard that there are studies showing later born children to be more likely to be homosexual than first born children, which if true would go along with that.

That trend exists, but only applies to right-handed boys. The trend is reversed for left-handed people. That is, first born, left-handed boys are more likely to be gay than their younger siblings [the article uses the offensive term "homosexual," I apologize for this].

[average_bear]

Debate question: Is gay life all about "homosexual" "acts?" Is there more to the LGB experience than sex? [/quote]

This is one thing that really irritates me about Christians when they talk about homosexuality - they focus on the sexual act, as if that the only thing gays do and sexuality is the only thing that defines them. If you're LGBT or know anyone who is, then it's obvious that it's not a lifestyle, it's a LIFE, which involves much more than sex. LGBT people live, laugh, love, raise children, buy houses, start businesses, go to church - you know - the things that "normal" people do. But some anti-gay folks focus on young, sexually active gay men who cruise for sex without regard for safety and without interest in long term relationships. Sure, such people exist, but they don't represent all the LGBT community. And how is gay cruising any different from those rare men and women we read about who bed hundreds or thousands of opposite sex partners?

One reason for this is that many Christians define homosexuality as a behavior, rather than an orientation. They are slow to accept homosexuality as an orientation because they may have to re-think what is and is not sin.

[bluethread]

Debate question: Is gay life all about "homosexual" "acts?" Is there more to the LGB experience than sex?

This is one thing that really irritates me about Christians when they talk about homosexuality - they focus on the sexual act, as if that the only thing gays do and sexuality is the only thing that defines them. If you're LGBT or know anyone who is, then it's obvious that it's not a lifestyle, it's a LIFE, which involves much more than sex. LGBT people live, laugh, love, raise children, buy houses, start businesses, go to church - you know - the things that "normal" people do. But some anti-gay folks focus on young, sexually active gay men who cruise for sex without regard for safety and without interest in long term relationships. Sure, such people exist, but they don't represent all the LGBT community. And how is gay cruising any different from those rare men and women we read about who bed hundreds or thousands of opposite sex partners?

One reason for this is that many Christians define homosexuality as a behavior, rather than an orientation. They are slow to accept homosexuality as an orientation because they may have to re-think what is and is not sin.[/quote]

This same argument can be made regarding almost any activity. People who drive big gas low mpg trucks also live, laugh, love, raise children, buy houses, start businesses, go to church - you know - the things that "normal" people do. However, that doesn't stop those on the left from faulting them for their behavior. Members of the NRA and people who are part of the Tea Party live, laugh, love, raise children, buy houses, start businesses, go to church - you know - the things that "normal" people do. Yet, they are marginalized by the left based on one factor of their lives. The only problem in have with the left in this regard is that I believe that they are wrong on those issues. If they want to put social pressure on those people, that is their right. The answer to so called "hate speech" is not silence, it is more speech and single issue criteria for associating or not associating with others is common human behavior. That isn't going to stop just because someone considers that single issue a nonissue.

[KCKID]

Well, I'm homosexual and often am left with similar questions. When i hear someone rant about how the sex act is evil/immoral/weird/disgusting, i'm just really confused because it seems like massive overreaction.

It appears to be mainly men (males) that react in such a manner toward homosexuality. Far fewer females appear to react similarly. What does this tell us? Well, it suggests that it's a cultural thing and begins pretty much from birth. We all know of the poor kid who was taunted at school for being a 'sissy'. Sissy (derived from sister) is a pejorative term for a boy or man who violates or does not meet the standard male gender role. Throughout their lives many men - perhaps subconsciously - are playing a game of 'one-upmanship' with other males with regard to their sexual prowess. While perhaps a tad crass, the brains of many males do appear to be located in their crotch area ...for both gays as well as straights, I quickly add!

For a male to be attracted to another male is contrary to the culture of 'boy/manhood'. It breaks 'the rules', so to speak, since not only is it considered to be the height of masculinity for a male to show courage, endurance, and the ability to control one’s emotions, to 'bed a female' is also a male rite of passage, especially when one is in their youth. And, the more females he beds, the more notches on his, um, gun. It should be noted that there is also a lot of lying and "b/s-ing" that goes on within the male youth culture (so, too, with many adult males) re their alleged sexual exploitations! The point is, however, that to many males their sexual prowess is of utmost importance relative to their perceived 'manhood'. While this situation is gradually changing among the young people of today, they are still under a certain amount of influence from their older generation parents and society.

Needless to say, there is a great deal on the Internet with regard to 'maleness' and 'cultural aversion' by males toward homosexuality from both a psychological and a sociological perspective.

When someone concedes that people are likely born gay but then finish with "but the sex act is still a choice of course", it's like they're desperately clinging to a way to condemn homosexuality still.

Yes, it's most patronizing even if not intended. Again, it comes back to both cultural influence and (if Christian) the influence of their Christian peers who are in turn influenced by the teaching of yet others that the Bible condemns homosexuality. The biggest 'problem' that gay people might encounter is the closed mindedness of some Christians who can never warm to the suggestion - even when using their own scriptures as evidence - that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality per se any more than it condemns heterosexuality per se. Even if the Bible authors did frown on homosexuality, then are we of today really bound by the writings of these ancient men who had no prior concept of the many, many advances that have been made in the fields of technology, medicine, etc. since those times? Do we really look to these authors for advice and guidance with regard to human sexuality? Surely, the answer has to be a resounding, “No!"

Yes, technically homosexual acts are a choice. So I should go thru life alone and suppress my feelings forever, and not so much as jerk off either?

Well, probably all but the most conservative Christians might excuse the latter (since they do it too) but they might also use a more politely appropriate term for it!

How many heteros never partake in premarital/extramarital sex or use birth control? The hypocrisy is staggering.

Of course it's hypocritical. And it's because it's hypocritical (and blatantly double standard) that we use logic and reason to dismiss these types of criticism.

I fail to see the big deal either. The sex act is so minor. Whether i act on those attractions, i like being gay because as you say, there's a lot more to it than that. I love guys and love being open about it. It feels amazing.

I say, "Good for you." Others might say, "Now go to your room and DON'T come out (no pun intended) until you figure out how you're hurting God!!"

[99percentatheism]

You could have a point about evolution. Perhaps we evolved that "ick" response to homosexuality as a means to drive genes forward to the next generation.

I have heard that there are studies showing later born children to be more likely to be homosexual than first born children, which if true would go along with that.

That trend exists, but only applies to right-handed boys. The trend is reversed for left-handed people. That is, first born, left-handed boys are more likely to be gay than their younger siblings [the article uses the offensive term "homosexual," I apologize for this].

This is fascinating. I've seen you try to attempt to now define the word "homosexual" as some kind of wrong. The word was invented by the psychology field. The very entity that "normalized" homosexuality. Is this the latest move in the gay agenda to continue a search for a moniker to make others "affirm" same gender sexual acts? It used to be that "queer" was the deal. And before that it was the term: inversion."

No matter what neologism is invented next for homosexuality to be made pop culture, a rose by any other name is a rose. Since when is "homosexual" been offensive? It literally IS what is done in the homosexuality behavior.

It is far more accurate to define the word "gay" as offensive when it is applied to same gender sexual behavior. Who, or rather what authority was allowed to insert same gender sexual behavior into a word "gay" that really has never meant sexual behavior for billions and billions of humans throughout history. When we Bible-believing believers labled now as "anti-gay" Christians . . ., "Don we now our gay apparel" during Christmas . . . has nothing to do with homosexuality in any "conservative" denomination. But there is the word in all of its modernity staring us in the face. So who gets to define and redefine words anyway??? Sounds like the term "The Gay Agenda" is very accurate. Somehow homosexuals and the supporters of homosexuality gained power over the lexicon and pop culture. How did this happen? If it just fads and pop culture, driven by the purveyors of such fads . . . then we have a problem that will never end. Not even in the Supreme Court.

Same Sex Attraction or SSA really can't fit the bill because boys gravitate towards boys as a matter of nature and girls gravitate towards girls as a matter of nature. Look at any schoolyard . . . until puberty makes the other gender pop into the conscience of both genders in "funny feelings" ways. And even then, good parents try to keep the sexes separated into same gender groupings as long as possible. If, you know what I mean.

So "homosexual" EVEN according to the authority that historically made it vogue, the APA, is really just settling on what defines a person's sexual inclinations and choices and behaviors. When you take a look at the latest poster child for gay affirmation "in the church" Matthew Vines, and you see that "homosexual" is still quite acceptable as a defining label. As yet, there has never been "scientific proof" for what makes a person garner a homosexual orientation, but it is clear that "a" homosexual is well defined and not defined by anything that would be fair to call the word offensive.

I would think that the word "Lesbian" would be an offensive labeling. Sappho, the teacher of ancient Lesbos Island wherein the label "Lesbian" comes from, although carried into history as some kind of impressive poet, was not exactly a great role model overall. She ended up in later life - as legend tells it - killing herself over the love of an attractive young man (Phaon) . And of course as mythology tells it, she was also lusting for her young female students when as a teacher of them. This is the history of that word/label. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sappho#Phaon_legend)

If one wants to find an offensive label than look no further than "Questioning Youth" being included into the "LGBT" activism agenda. Isn't that really claiming every child that has ever or will ever live as now part of the gay agenda??? Who gets to claim influence and authority over this so-called "Questioning Youth?" Who gave the LGBT community claims on that? History is for everyone to decide. Where does all of this come from??????

So "LGBT" (and the other letters that they added and add to the groupings) in history is not only up to "them" to define and label, it is up to all of us or any of us. Anyone or any group that makes noise for an identity in society has allowed society to define them as well. "Christians" and "Christianity" is a perfect example of this.

[99percentatheism]

average_bear
Debate question: Is gay life all about "homosexual" "acts?" Is there more to the LGB experience than sex? [/quote]

This is one thing that really irritates me about Christians when they talk about homosexuality - they focus on the sexual act,

Facts are important to us. One is not really a sinner until engaging in the act. Of sinning that is. For the vast majority of Christians, same gender sexual behavior is a sin.

as if that the only thing gays do and sexuality is the only thing that defines them.

But that is exactly what does define them. the L the G and the B define sexual behavior. How can that even be denied? WHY would it be denied?

If you're LGBT or know anyone who is, then it's obvious that it's not a lifestyle, it's a LIFE, which involves much more than sex.

The same exact thing can be said about a Gang Member. Exactly. I know many Gang Members. It's when they "do their thing" AS Gang Members that becomes a sin.

LGBT people live, laugh, love, raise children, buy houses, start businesses, go to church - you know - the things that "normal" people do.

And then their sex acts.

But some anti-gay folks focus on young, sexually active gay men who cruise for sex without regard for safety and without interest in long term relationships.

The gay pride flag flies proudly for them as well. Mayor jim Naugle tried to stop men from having sex with men in pubic beach bathrooms in Fort Lauderdale Florida and was attacked "by the gay community" for doing so.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/browar ... orygallery

Sure, such people exist, but they don't represent all the LGBT community.

The LGBT community represents them though. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/browar ... orygallery

And how is gay cruising any different from those rare men and women we read about who bed hundreds or thousands of opposite sex partners?

It is not hailed as a prideful in any Christian Church.

One reason for this is that many Christians define homosexuality as a behavior, rather than an orientation.

That is our right. No one has proven homosexual behavior to be a congenital condition. And in Christian life, sin is not sin until engaged in.

They are slow to accept homosexuality as an orientation because they may have to re-think what is and is not sin.

You need to study the theology of "original sin."

"All of us like sheep have gone astray."

"There is none righteous. No not one."

We Christians do not think that those statements are hate speech. Nor the following either:

Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.

Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.

For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.

Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight;
so you are right in your verdict
and justified when you judge.

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean;
wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.

Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones you have crushed rejoice.

Hide your face from my sins
and blot out all my iniquity.

Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.

Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.

Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
so that sinners will turn back to you.

- excerpts from Psalm 51

[99percentatheism]

KCKID

Well, I'm homosexual and often am left with similar questions. When i hear someone rant about how the sex act is evil/immoral/weird/disgusting, i'm just really confused because it seems like massive overreaction.

It appears to be mainly men (males) that react in such a manner toward homosexuality. Far fewer females appear to react similarly. What does this tell us?

You must not talk to very many women. Many are repulsed by same gender behavior their style. And all of the women I interact with in the Evangelcal Churches I visit throughout America stand as one towards homosexuality their style . . . as in against it. And especially for their children. And remember women are not men.

Well, it suggests that it's a cultural thing and begins pretty much from birth. We all know of the poor kid who was taunted at school for being a 'sissy'. Sissy (derived from sister) is a pejorative term for a boy or man who violates or does not meet the standard male gender role.

Have you spent any time in the gay community? Same thing in both the G and the L parts.

Throughout their lives many men - perhaps subconsciously - are playing a game of 'one-upmanship' with other males with regard to their sexual prowess. While perhaps a tad crass, the brains of many males do appear to be located in their crotch area ...for both gays as well as straights, I quickly add!

Christians know this.

For a male to be attracted to another male is contrary to the culture of 'boy/manhood'. It breaks 'the rules', so to speak, since not only is it considered to be the height of masculinity for a male to show courage, endurance, and the ability to control one’s emotions, to 'bed a female' is also a male rite of passage, especially when one is in their youth.

Not in any Christian family I know of. You are referencing "the world and its ways."

And, the more females he beds, the more notches on his, um, gun. It should be noted that there is also a lot of lying and "b/s-ing" that goes on within the male youth culture (so, too, with many adult males) re their alleged sexual exploitations! The point is, however, that to many males their sexual prowess is of utmost importance relative to their perceived 'manhood'. While this situation is gradually changing among the young people of today, they are still under a certain amount of influence from their older generation parents and society.

KCKID, are you spending anytime at all with young people today? Social media hasn't changed a thing.

Needless to say, there is a great deal on the Internet with regard to 'maleness' and 'cultural aversion' by males toward homosexuality from both a psychological and a sociological perspective.

Isn't it interesting that the internet is literally the knowledge of good and evil? It kills as well as heals.

When someone concedes that people are likely born gay but then finish with "but the sex act is still a choice of course", it's like they're desperately clinging to a way to condemn homosexuality still.

Christians deal with human beings. We are not concerned with the animal kingdom. Choice behavior is what separates us from them.

Yes, it's most patronizing even if not intended. Again, it comes back to both cultural influence and (if Christian) the influence of their Christian peers who are in turn influenced by the teaching of yet others that the Bible condemns homosexuality.

The Bible "condemns" many sinful behaviors. Same gender sexual behavior is just e pluribus unum. Does one have a kleptomania orientation as an excuse for stealing? That is is the DSM V as well. But in Christian life, stealing is a sin. No matter if one is born that way.

The biggest 'problem' that gay people might encounter is the closed mindedness of some Christians who can never warm to the suggestion - even when using their own scriptures as evidence - that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality per se any more than it condemns heterosexuality per se.

The BIGGEST problem for gay activists is that there is no such thing as affirmation, support or celebration of homosexuality OR homosexuals anywhere in the Bible. It is only honesty to keep to the truth.

Even if the Bible authors did frown on homosexuality, then are we of today really bound by the writings of these ancient men who had no prior concept of the many, many advances that have been made in the fields of technology, medicine, etc. since those times?

Look up "onanism." Those ancients proved they knew exactly what sexuality was. Since God was inspiring them to write, we have a good source of sexual knowledge. And yet, there is not one place anywhere in scripture that decidedly encourages homosexuality. Yet we have only its denouncing.

Do we really look to these authors for advice and guidance with regard to human sexuality? Surely, the answer has to be a resounding, “No!"

For non and anti Christians. You left that part out. For "Christians" the Bible is important. For "conservative" Christians.

Liberal Christians generally reject the inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible.

- http://www.religioustolerance.org/

Yes, technically homosexual acts are a choice. So I should go thru life alone and suppress my feelings forever, and not so much as jerk off either?

That is your choice.

Well, probably all but the most conservative Christians might excuse the latter (since they do it too) but they might also use a more politely appropriate term for it!

Probably not.

How many heteros never partake in premarital/extramarital sex or use birth control? The hypocrisy is staggering.

The always grabbed onto "two wrongs making a right analogy. Odd how that only continues things going in the "wrong" direction.

Of course it's hypocritical. And it's because it's hypocritical (and blatantly double standard) that we use logic and reason to dismiss these types of criticism.

There is no logic or reason in: The always grabbed onto "two wrongs making a right analogy. Odd how that only continues things going in the "wrong" direction. No morality in ti as well.

I fail to see the big deal either. The sex act is so minor. Whether i act on those attractions, i like being gay because as you say, there's a lot more to it than that. I love guys and love being open about it. It feels amazing.

Men desiring to be around men because it is an amazing feeling is not a sin. Sex acts between men are though. To Christian truth that is. I may add quickly. And last time I checked, male on male sex acts were very complicated. One can't do it without some help from a slippery product or two.

I say, "Good for you." Others might say, "Now go to your room and DON'T come out (no pun intended) until you figure out how you're hurting God!!"

Encouraging sin is an even worse sin than just committing one. According to none other than Jesus: One day Jesus said to his disciples,

“There will always be temptations to sin, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting! It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin. So watch yourselves!
- Luke 17

[Haven]

Facts are important to us. One is not really a sinner until engaging in the act. Of sinning that is.

So, let me get this straight: according to your brand of religious extremism, one can be fabulously gay, but if s/he isn't having same-sex sex, s/he isn't sinning? Are celibate gays evil (according to your worldview)?

For the vast majority of Christians, same gender sexual behavior is a sin.

That's actually false.

[99percentatheism]

Haven

Facts are important to us. One is not really a sinner until engaging in the act. Of sinning that is.

So, let me get this straight: according to your brand of religious extremism,

My brand was brought to the world by Jesus, Peter, James, John, Jude, etc., etc., etc.. You seem to keep forgetting that.

one can be fabulously gay, but if s/he isn't having same-sex sex, s/he isn't sinning?

One is not a liar until they lie. One is not a thief until they steal

Are celibate gays evil (according to your worldview)?

In your band of fanatical gay activism and well-calculated propaganda there may be such thing as celibate gays. In Christian reality there are just people. We don't label people by pop culture fads or by sins they do not commit. There are Christians doing what Christians should do and people doing what Christians shouldn't do.

For the vast majority of Christians, same gender sexual behavior is a sin.

[url=http://www.gallup.com/poll/154634/accep ... ormal.aspx]

That's actually false.

Are you seriously going to say that only Americans are Christians? How many Christians in, let's just say, Nigeria, are promoting homosexuality? How many of the millions of Christians now in China are celebrating homosexuality? Gay pride in "mainline" denominations causes schism. Not looking like very very good fruit.

Ad captandum vulgus Cui bono?*

And the same polls also say that Christians in the west behave no differently than non and anti Christians when it comes to all sorts of inappropriate sexual behavior. The standard charge is made against us incessantly that "adultery, premarital sex, abortions, porn use . . . yada, yada, yada," is no different in the Christian community than in the secular society. So how surprised is anyone that now gay behavior is tolerated where gays have become leadership in certain denominations?

Here:

Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew.

“The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’

“‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed.

“‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked.

“‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’�

Matthew 13

And notice what this writer does not advise?

Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people. I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

So I want to remind you, though you already know these things, that Jesus first rescued the nation of Israel from Egypt, but later he destroyed those who did not remain faithful. And I remind you of the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority God gave them but left the place where they belonged. God has kept them securely chained in prisons of darkness, waiting for the great day of judgment. And don’t forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment.

In the same way, these people—who claim authority from their dreams—live immoral lives, defy authority, and scoff at supernatural beings. But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you!� (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses’ body.) But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction. What sorrow awaits them! For they follow in the footsteps of Cain, who killed his brother. Like Balaam, they deceive people for money. And like Korah, they perish in their rebellion.

When these people eat with you in your fellowship meals commemorating the Lord’s love, they are like dangerous reefs that can shipwreck you. They are like shameless shepherds who care only for themselves. They are like clouds blowing over the land without giving any rain. They are like trees in autumn that are doubly dead, for they bear no fruit and have been pulled up by the roots. They are like wild waves of the sea, churning up the foam of their shameful deeds. They are like wandering stars, doomed forever to blackest darkness.

Enoch, who lived in the seventh generation after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said, “Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones to execute judgment on the people of the world. He will convict every person of all the ungodly things they have done and for all the insults that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.�

These people are grumblers and complainers, living only to satisfy their desires. They brag loudly about themselves, and they flatter others to get what they want.

Notice Jude never says to kick out these people. Just to recognize them for what they are and do:

But you, dear friends, must build each other up in your most holy faith . . .,

. . . and await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will bring you eternal life. In this way, you will keep yourselves safe in God’s love.

And you must show mercy to those whose faith is wavering. Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives.

Have you ever separated wheat kernels from the chaff?

Big pile of chaff and a small amount of wheat.



*To appeal to the crowd, for whose benefit is it?

[KCKID]

[font=Arial]

KCKID

Well, I'm homosexual and often am left with similar questions. When i hear someone rant about how the sex act is evil/immoral/weird/disgusting, i'm just really confused because it seems like massive overreaction.

It appears to be mainly men (males) that react in such a manner toward homosexuality. Far fewer females appear to react similarly. What does this tell us?

You must not talk to very many women. Many are repulsed by same gender behavior their style. And all of the women I interact with in the Evangelcal Churches I visit throughout America stand as one towards homosexuality their style . . . as in against it. And especially for their children. And remember women are not men.

Ah, at last . . .an admission that it's "people" who are personally repulsed by homosexuality and not because God allegedly commands against it! I've known that pretty well forever, of course. God is against the very same things that one is personally against! What many are taught about God from the Bible (yes, taught! Many rarely study the Bible for themselves!) only supports what they 'personally' feel about homosexuality. And, what one personally feels is also more often than not 'culture driven'.

A particular strand of my university degree (yep, I have a uni degree in Social Science ...I am so clever! ) included Anthropology 101. The lifestyles and the customs of a number of tribal people throughout the world would go against the grain of most of us 'decent' people. The Sambian Tribe, for instance, have a practice of 'masculinization' for the boys in their tribe (man and boy sex among other tribal rites of passage) that would have every child protection agency in the Western World beating down their doors to remove these children from their homes. Psychologists/Psychiatrists would be even more in demand (*sigh*) than they are now with some prolonged and heavy counseling programs for these 'poor kids' that have clearly been 'scarred for life'. You can read all about the Sambians here:

http://www.orijinculture.com/community/ ... ua-guinea/

See, we're all influenced by our specific cultures and we generally adhere to the 'norms' of our particular society. What 'behavioral norms' of society are for some is 'deviant behavior' for others. What the Sambians do is obviously not for us. Likewise, what we do would just as obviously not be for the Sambians. Actually, I find the eating practices of some cultures to be most off-putting. The people of India, for instance, don't use utensils to eat their food with ...they just use their fingers. How gross! Perhaps I could find an appropriate passage of scripture that aligns with my own distaste for this disgusting practice and pronounce that God agrees with me!

Different cultures, different 'norms' ...God agrees with 'me', God disagrees with 'you'. Get the point?

Well, it suggests that it's a cultural thing and begins pretty much from birth. We all know of the poor kid who was taunted at school for being a 'sissy'. Sissy (derived from sister) is a pejorative term for a boy or man who violates or does not meet the standard male gender role.

Have you spent any time in the gay community?

No, I haven’t. But I have spent all of my life in the straight community. And, I've observed over the years that it’s not all been lollipops and roses.

What was your point?

Throughout their lives many men - perhaps subconsciously - are playing a game of 'one-upmanship' with other males with regard to their sexual prowess. While perhaps a tad crass, the brains of many males do appear to be located in their crotch area ...for both gays as well as straights, I quickly add!

Christians know this.

I'm sure they do.

For a male to be attracted to another male is contrary to the culture of 'boy/manhood'. It breaks 'the rules', so to speak, since not only is it considered to be the height of masculinity for a male to show courage, endurance, and the ability to control one’s emotions, to 'bed a female' is also a male rite of passage, especially when one is in their youth.

Not in any Christian family I know of. You are referencing "the world and its ways."

The naïvety you’re displaying is kinda cute. But, perhaps for the most part, you’re right. Christian kids would possibly have the ‘guilt trip’ that much of ‘religiosity’ is about drummed into them from day one by their parents. Apparently many of these kids rebel later in life. Be that as it may, I was referring to the ‘culture’ of maleness’ in general.

And, the more females he beds, the more notches on his, um, gun. It should be noted that there is also a lot of lying and "b/s-ing" that goes on within the male youth culture (so, too, with many adult males) re their alleged sexual exploitations! The point is, however, that to many males their sexual prowess is of utmost importance relative to their perceived 'manhood'. While this situation is gradually changing among the young people of today, they are still under a certain amount of influence from their older generation parents and society.

KCKID, are you spending anytime at all with young people today? Social media hasn't changed a thing.

What …in regard to their (young peoples’) attitude toward homosexuality? It seems to me from the dealings that I presently have and have had with young people that homosexuality for them is no big deal. Obviously, the young people involved with the Church may have a different viewpoint. Like it or not, ‘Christianity’ uses a brainwashing technique just the same as does the media, politics, and all that we absorb from those who we consider to be more knowledgeable than we ourselves are.

Needless to say, there is a great deal on the Internet with regard to 'maleness' and 'cultural aversion' by males toward homosexuality from both a psychological and a sociological perspective.

Isn't it interesting that the internet is literally the knowledge of good and evil? It kills as well as heals.

While that may well be true, could a similar reference not be made with regard to the book that some Christians tend to let do their thinking for them? The Old Testament is downright evil for the most part. Then comes along Jesus to somehow counter the OT with a very different message. The OT seems to be all about killing whereas Jesus appears to be all about healing. This is perhaps a slight derail but which of the two do YOU claim to be a follower of, 99percent ...God or Jesus? There IS a difference . . .

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