Christian "Love" for "Homosexuals"

[Haven]

Christian fundamentalists often claim to "love" lesbians, gays, and bisexuals (who they invariably label "homosexuals"), while at the same time actively opposing gay rights, including marriage equality, hate crimes laws, and even decriminalization of same-sex relationships. This seems ridiculous to me, as love implies support, but these individuals certainly don't support LGB people.

Debate question: Is it possible to love gay, lesbian, and bisexual people while opposing gay rights?[/i

[Haven]

If Bible affirming Christians are to be equated to KKK members, Wesrboro protesters (and homosexual/gay pride activists), are we not compelled to answer that spurious charge?

So why would anyone compare Bible-affirming Christians that live the Gospel message . . . to the KKK and one small "activist" church in Kansas? That's just not a sound charge. There is the same void of support for their behavior in the New Testament as there is a void of support for promoting gay pride. So why would anyone use that comparison as some kind of accusation of wrongdoing?

The KKK is an evangelical Christian organization, as is the WBC. They are both "Bible-believing Christian" groups, and they follow Biblical morality through to its logical conclusion.

[99percentatheism]

If Bible affirming Christians are to be equated to KKK members, Wesrboro protesters (and homosexual/gay pride activists), are we not compelled to answer that spurious charge?

So why would anyone compare Bible-affirming Christians that live the Gospel message . . . to the KKK and one small "activist" church in Kansas? That's just not a sound charge. There is the same void of support for their behavior in the New Testament as there is a void of support for promoting gay pride. So why would anyone use that comparison as some kind of accusation of wrongdoing?

The KKK is an evangelical Christian organization, as is the WBC. They are both "Bible-believing Christian" groups, and they follow Biblical morality through to its logical conclusion.

And your opinion is duly noted and filed appropriately.

The Klan is hardly aligning their actions to that of the Apostles. The Apostles are the people that implemented the Evangel. The Westboro group is hardly acting like the teachings of Jesus when they are picketing the funerals of soldiers.

The Beatitudes:

“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

I doubt seriously, that fighting to have homosexual acts "affirmed" and celebrated in The Church, as well as in public, and being outraged by having that firmly opposed by Christians, qualifies for any of the above.

But like I've written many times, people are free to invent any new religion they so desire. And others are free to reject that.

[99percentatheism]

KCKID
[Replying to post 94 by 99percentatheism]

<sigh>
99percent, what I'm doing here only seems to be exacerbating inner demons that you appear to possess, I don't mean that in a supernatural OR a derogatory way, I quickly add.

In vino veritas. Interesting that you bring up demons. But they are not in me, nor any of my positions. That is simply impossible.

. . . because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them.

- 1 John 4

I doubt a move of God emanated from the Stonewall riots. I doubt that highly.

Your passion over this topic is so outrageously excessive and, quite frankly, it's beyond me what might have been responsible for this.

Another statement I completely agree with. You're on a roll.

All I can think to say right now is that I'm feeling a tad sorry for you and I don't mean that in a patronizing way either.

I'll survive.

I just do. Reading your response to Danmark (even though I very much agree with him) really took the wind out of my sails and, at the moment anyway, I don't feel like arguing with you.

I'm not surprised at all.

This feeling might only be temporary but right now you really sound as though you could do with a big hug from someone. If I could I would offer to do that.

No, no please. Stay on your side of the theological street. I have more than enough love from my side over here. You and Danmark have each other and it looks like you are quite well suited to be pals. I don't mean that in a patronizing way.

[99percentatheism]

Joab

Is there Christian "love" in inventing a new religion that veers away from New Testament scripture and calls itself "Christian?

To which of the 40,000 do you refer?

Or do you consider them all to be "christian"?

You just can't answer me position by position can you?

Oh well. I'll let Jesus answer your questions:

Parable of the Wheat and Weeds

Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew.

“The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’

“‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed.

“‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked.

“‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’�

Gospel of Matthew, ch 13

Yeah, I'd say that pretty much answers your questions.

[Joab]

Joab

Is there Christian "love" in inventing a new religion that veers away from New Testament scripture and calls itself "Christian?

To which of the 40,000 do you refer?

Or do you consider them all to be "christian"?

You just can't answer me position by position can you?

Oh well. I'll let Jesus answer your questions:

Parable of the Wheat and Weeds

Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew.

“The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’

“‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed.

“‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked.

“‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’�

Gospel of Matthew, ch 13

Yeah, I'd say that pretty much answers your questions.

No, it didn't come within several parsecs of answering my question.

But I've become accustomed that that type of behaviour from you.

[KCKID]

If Bible affirming Christians are to be equated to KKK members, Wesrboro protesters (and homosexual/gay pride activists), are we not compelled to answer that spurious charge?

So why would anyone compare Bible-affirming Christians that live the Gospel message . . . to the KKK and one small "activist" church in Kansas? That's just not a sound charge. There is the same void of support for their behavior in the New Testament as there is a void of support for promoting gay pride. So why would anyone use that comparison as some kind of accusation of wrongdoing?

The KKK is an evangelical Christian organization, as is the WBC. They are both "Bible-believing Christian" groups, and they follow Biblical morality through to its logical conclusion.

The Klan is hardly aligning their actions to that of the Apostles. The people that implemented the evangel. The Westboro group is hardly acting like the teachings of Jesus when they are picketing the funerals of soldiers.

Yes, the picketing of the funerals of soldiers is bad. It's far more scripturally acceptable - and raises fewer complaints from Christians - when the Westboro Baptist Church picket the funerals of the likes of murdered Matthew Shepard with signs that read: Fags Must Die: See Leviticus 20:13 . . .

That said, the picketing of the funerals of soldiers IS related to that particular Leviticus text. Soldiers, say the WBC, are supporting a country that accepts 'sodomites'. And, while they say that, they don't even have a clue what the word means!* Nor, apparently, does most of Christianity! So, would it not be best, perhaps, for Christians to disassociate themselves from Leviticus 20:13 altogether? I mean, some actually believe it to be the word of God . . .

*Strong's Definition of Sodomite:
qadesh: a temple prostitute
Original Word: קָדֵש�
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: qadesh
Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-dashe')
Short Definition: prostitute

The Beatitudes:

“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

I doubt seriously, that fighting to have homosexual acts "affirmed" and celebrated in The Church, as well as in public, and being outraged by having that firmly opposed by Christians, qualifies for any of the above.

But like I've written many times, people are free to invent any new religion they so desire. And others are free to reject that.

Ah, the Beatitudes. A very wise piece of scripture. Perhaps a trifle self-righteous, however, by presenting them as if they are are consistently practiced by one's self.

[KCKID]

This feeling might only be temporary but right now you really sound as though you could do with a big hug from someone. If I could I would offer to do that.

No, no please. Stay on your side of the theological street.

Well, I'm somewhat peeved that you rejected my hug ...especially since it was offered with sincerity. Never mind, I'll send you a cyber-hug anyway since I think, deep down, you'd really like me to . . .

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 91 by bluethread]

Hi bluethread

I don't know how I would be affected if I found that my neighbor was involved in sexual sadism, erotic strangulation and suicide pacts that you brought up in previous posts. It's unlikely to happen. I guess I might say, "Oh wow ...who would've thought?!" or some equally stupid remark. And then I'd get back to the business of living my life and trying to avoid the temptation to tell others how to live theirs.

Now, since I've just about exhausted all of the comments that I can on this derailing of the OP, would you mind if we move on ...? Thanks.

Well, the OP is about love and how one reacts to the sexual activities of others. That said, at a minimum, I would think that the loving thing to do with regard to those who take part in sexual sadism, erotic strangulation and suicide pacts is to inform them of the dangers of those practices. If they ignore my warnings, then the loving thing for my community, at a minimum, would be to inform my friends and family of those practices and avoid contact with those people as much as possible. Just walking by on the other side of the road, while people harm one another, even if it is consensual, is not what I call, loving my neighbor.

[99percentatheism]

KCKID

This feeling might only be temporary but right now you really sound as though you could do with a big hug from someone. If I could I would offer to do that.

No, no please. Stay on your side of the theological street.

Well, I'm somewhat peeved that you rejected my hug ...especially since it was offered with sincerity. Never mind, I'll send you a cyber-hug anyway since I think, deep down, you'd really like me to . . .

Keh, keh, keh, keh, keh, keh KCKID . . .,

You have tried just about every tactic and technique in the book to get me to be "affirming" of homosexuality. This one, the patronizing ploy is something to behold. It ranks up there with the guy that invoked an occultic curse on me. An 8.9 on the creativity scale. I just don't want you wasting your time. You should stick with the Matthew Vines style of presentation and allow the debate to stay that course. Feelings can dominate anything. Trump any reality. Good luck with that.

But c'mon now, what's wrong with staying in your homosexuality celebrating Denoms and continue with your gay theology that makes you happy and allowing us hundreds of millions of Bible-affirming Christians to dwell in our Bible-based worldview?

Why not rather flood these threads with scriptures that openly and clearly describe homosexuals and homosexuality as appropriate for the Christian life as described in the New Testament? I mean, I realize that your task is impossible, but hey not really huh, since you enjoy Spong so much, just rewrite whatever you don't like and print your own Catechesis? Your new religion should make millions from all of the atheists, skeptics, humanists and other secularistic people groups and that will convert to new modern-or-today gay Christianity. I've nticed with fascination how many atheists and other non Christians support your demands for gay Christianity. You should do very well in your new mega progressive churches.

I'm sorry though, I won't be able to advise any Seminaries for you to obtain your religious collar. I'm not allowed to. I don't hang in the kinds of places that allow for a wholesale editing, rewriting and reinventing of scriptures to appease pop culture. But I'm sure if you email Spong's peep's you can be given the places you need to sojourn for your kind of pastoral license.

And, another I'm sorry, but I won't be there on your graduation day to give you a big hug for your accomplishments. And BTW, I'm not going to an LDS, JW, or UU, graduation day either. (I just wanted you to know that I'm not a hypocrite there.) But I am quite interested to see your new religious paradigm garner large amounts of converts from the segments I mentioned above that support and champion gay pride right now.

See, I can be nice. Maybe not affirming, but kinda congenial.

[99percentatheism]

bluethread

Well, the OP is about love and how one reacts to the sexual activities of others. That said, at a minimum, I would think that the loving thing to do with regard to those who take part in sexual sadism, erotic strangulation and suicide pacts is to inform them of the dangers of those practices.

I believe that Jesus prescribed: Go, and sin no more.

If they ignore my warnings, then the loving thing for my community, at a minimum, would be to inform my friends and family of those practices and avoid contact with those people as much as possible.

I hear Peter chiming in:

As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you . . .

1 Peter 4

Just walking by on the other side of the road, while people harm one another, even if it is consensual, is not what I call, loving my neighbor.

It seems it is to the world and its ways.