Homosexuality by our genes compared to the Bible

[TheGreatDebate]

Is homosexuality something you are born with? Well I am not aware of any studies but if I had to guess I would say it probably has a part in it.

Now people use that to defend homosexuality from the Bible, but is it really a good defense?

According to numerous studies, children of criminals are born with a genetic tendency to be criminals as well. Including studies of adopted children that were born to criminals growing up in another law-abiding household.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 2892520530

Also it is well established that Native Americans are born with a tendency to be predisposed to alcoholism. Much more so than other races.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh301/3-4.htm

So using the same logic, we should allow the children of criminals to walk free and Native Americans who drink and drive free as well. But wait, that sounds ridiculous right?

[99percentatheism]

So then people that "hate" pedophiles, murderers, terrorists, serial killers, to name only a few kinds of people that exhibit behavior that "others" find repulsive, repugnant and unacceptable . . . they are actually, maybe, really: pedophiles, murderers, terrorists, serial killers?

Interesting. Then of course Doctors are actually secretly desiring to be ill people?

Are you seriously comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, murder, terrorism, and serial murder?

I am addressing the skewed logic that if you are oppositional to something or someone that you are secretly what or who you oppose. That to me, is the most weird attempt at propaganda that I have always had to endure from the common pro homosexuality proponent in these debates with them. That's all.

What I would like to compare is what gay life and culture is compared to what life a Christian should live. Where does the he gay agenda travel the same road as what Jesus paved? Repentance is not a hate crime in the Gospels. And please note, never have "I" ever said that homosexuals can't form their own pro-homosexual religion and have at it there. It is far past time for gay activists that claim to be Christian to set up their own "Christian" congregations and see what happens to preaching the Gospel there. That would be very fascinating to observe.

[TheGreatDebate]

[Replying to post 6 by ten10ths]

We don't need scientific proof to state the obvious, only to understand the obvious.

I totally agree with you for the most part. I apologize, I was just responding to what I normally deal with. Although this isn't always true.

I say God played god and didn't do a goo job. After all, He allowed the fall of man and that's not very loving for His creation. Unless that's His plan. Though that is very disturbing as well lol But that's a different story

That was His plan and it was done for a very specific reason, but you are right, it is for another post. Thanks for your post!

[TheGreatDebate]

[Replying to post 7 by Haven]

Whether or not homosexuality is a choice has no moral relevance (it's not a choice, by the way -- all evidence points to this). What is ethically relevant (in my subjective, emotionally based opinion) is whether or not an act is harmful. [Violent] crime and drunk driving are both harmful. Homosexuality isn't harmful, therefore it's not wrong.

What defines being harmful? Violence? What if I said you were violently imposing your beliefs over my children by being gay in front of them? What if I told you to not act gay in front of my kids, and I interpreted that as violence? What is to say that my interpretation is wrong? Your opinion?

[TheGreatDebate]

[Replying to post 8 by Jashwell]

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural"
Could be bestiality, which has been addressed by the bible before.
But I'm surprised the Bible seems to differ on the scale of it's dislike for lesbianism and male homosexuality

Your right and it could be. I was too quick in my response although I think it still holds. The Bible says it is wrong to steal. That means it is wrong to con people even though it doesn't directly state that, understand that. Your right though, the Bible is very sexist and we should embrace that because our modern ideals of equality have led to utopia right?

And I take it you didn't read the rest of what I said.
"Some branches of Christianity believe wrong deeds are penalised"
"If homosexuality isn't a choice, then one can be penalised for something they didn't choose - mere fate. An injustice."

First, I don't believe deeds are punished, I believe intent is.
Second, the children of criminals don't always make criminals.
Third, if they commit a crime when they are young, they would be sent to a problem school (or whatever they're called), if they commit it when they are old, they would be punished - and receive rehabilitation.

While I agree with you to an extant. Would you say that a murderer who feels that he is freeing people from their physical domain or whatever, be punished for murdering people? I am guessing the rest of what you are getting at is the entire situation to be taken into account? I totally agree with that. Who said the Law of God through Moses didn't? And would you agree that people, despite their genetic tendency for crime, should still by punished for committing crime?

The justice system in real life doesn't deal retribution.
It tries to avoid making criminals suffer when it serves no function.

I really think that we really think that. Yet we will try people, who have been cleared of criminal intent, because enough people want them tried. Things are wrong today that were Ok 10 years ago. People will lose their livelihood over something they said 30 years ago. [fill in the blank]

The Christian justice system appears to.
If one can be denied heaven for this "transgression", and it is not a choice, then it IS a problem for (most of) Christianity because it means people were born destined for heaven or hell.

In all honesty I was waiting for this question because this is the question I was hoping to generate. Yes some are born destined for heaven or hell. Just as much as you claim they are. The son of a murderer is much more likely to commit murder. Should we prosecute him? God created the universe. And He created some vessels unto honor and some unto dishonor (this does not denote free will, this is another post). He created them for His purpose. To teach His children. Remember, you wouldn't have the ability to think that it is unfair it He did not create you. (This post was originally for Christians, I can make another one for atheists, considering there are more atheists on this forum than Christians from my perspective.) Being born gay, means you have another obstacle that you can overcome (if that is actually true). That does not mean it is not ultimately your choice.

[Danmark]

Yet we will try people, who have been cleared of criminal intent, because enough people want them tried. Things are wrong today that were Ok 10 years ago. ... People will lose their livelihood over something they said 30 years ago.
....
The son of a murderer is much more likely to commit murder.

Can you support any of these statements?

That:
People are tried for crimes where there is no criminal intent.
Just because it is popular to do so.
Name ten people who lost their jobs for something they said 30 years ago.
Show your statistics for proving the sons of murderers are much more likely to commit murder.

[TheGreatDebate]

[Replying to post 12 by Danmark]

This speaks volumes. What are you afraid of? If some one were attracted to you, how are you being threatened? What is it you need 'protection' from? People of the opposite gender have their 'sexual plots.' As long as violence is not proposed, just say 'no.' Women do this all the time. They simply decline the invitation.

Most heterosexual men I know, including myself have been approached, by both men and women. A simple 'I'm not interested' has always sufficed. What's the basis for fear? I can certainly understand a physically or emotionally weak person being afraid of an overbearing advance, but unless you are talking about criminal behavior, I find the projected fear a man claims to have about an offer for a sexual dalliance laughable in the extreme. I've never quoted Nancy Reagan before, but, you can "Just say 'no.'"

So you would deny that most sexual assault cases are preformed by male perpetrators? Is it not men that mostly rape people?

Your argument is the same as "most people that break into homes don't kill people, but people are only killed by people by people who break into homes."

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 12 by Danmark]

This speaks volumes. What are you afraid of? If some one were attracted to you, how are you being threatened? What is it you need 'protection' from? People of the opposite gender have their 'sexual plots.' As long as violence is not proposed, just say 'no.' Women do this all the time. They simply decline the invitation.

Most heterosexual men I know, including myself have been approached, by both men and women. A simple 'I'm not interested' has always sufficed. What's the basis for fear? I can certainly understand a physically or emotionally weak person being afraid of an overbearing advance, but unless you are talking about criminal behavior, I find the projected fear a man claims to have about an offer for a sexual dalliance laughable in the extreme. I've never quoted Nancy Reagan before, but, you can "Just say 'no.'"

TGB:

So you would deny that most sexual assault cases are preformed [sic] by male perpetrators? Is it not men that mostly rape people?

No, and I neither said nor implied that and your analogy makes no sense.
Now, are you able to respond to post 25?

[OnceConvinced]

I would think it would be obvious that homosexuality is genetic. You are born that way. I know this because I was born straight. I have never once had a homosexual urge. In fact I had my first crush on a member of the opposite sex when I was 5 years old and had regular crushes on girls from then on. Yes, at first it was innocent, but when I reached puberty there were sexual desires there. Never once was any of those desires directed at males.

I was clearly born straight. I was never taught to be straight. I never CHOSE to be straight. I just was. No amount of trying to convince me to be gay would ever work. Therefore knowing that I was born straight therefore proves to me that it's not a choice to be gay just as it was not a choice to be straight. It proves to me, that unless you suffered sexual abuse from an early age and came to see it as normal, then you were born gay.

It's really quite simple. No straight person could EVER choose to be gay. I kow I couldn't possibly. The only people who have a choice are bi-sexual people.

Perhaps those people who insist that being gay is a choice are closet bi-sexuals?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 28 by OnceConvinced]

Well technically there is a way to choose! Severe brain trauma you could theoretically submit yourself to severe brain damage in an attempt to hit the right spot associated with sexual attraction. Stroke victims and car accident victims have show dramatic and sudden changes in sexual orientation.

[Goat]

I would think it would be obvious that homosexuality is genetic. You are born that way. I know this because I was born straight. I have never once had a homosexual urge. In fact I had my first crush on a member of the opposite sex when I was 5 years old and had regular crushes on girls from then on. Yes, at first it was innocent, but when I reached puberty there were sexual desires there. Never once was any of those desires directed at males.

I was clearly born straight. I was never taught to be straight. I never CHOSE to be straight. I just was. No amount of trying to convince me to be gay would ever work. Therefore knowing that I was born straight therefore proves to me that it's not a choice to be gay just as it was not a choice to be straight. It proves to me, that unless you suffered sexual abuse from an early age and came to see it as normal, then you were born gay.

It's really quite simple. No straight person could EVER choose to be gay. I kow I couldn't possibly. The only people who have a choice are bi-sexual people.

Perhaps those people who insist that being gay is a choice are closet bi-sexuals?

And then there is this case.. where an attempt to have a boy raised as a girl after a botched circumcision backfired.

http://documentaryheaven.com/the-boy-wh ... to-a-girl/