Where does the bible say you gays can't marry

[DanieltheDragon]

The title says it all folks. Where does the bible say 1.) gays can't marry 2.)you can't particpate in gay weddings 3.) you can't preside over a gay marriage(as a magistrate of the court) 4.) you can't support gay marriage.


Instead I find the bible specifically states none of the above. Instead it simplifies things.

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. Leviticus 20:13

If one is not arguing that LGBT individuals should be put to death they cannot complain about any of the above. After all Romans 13 states the following

13 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

The bible specifically states to subject yourselves to governing authorities. If the law of the land is that if you offer sales to the public and are not to discriminate then you cannot discriminate. If the law of the land is that as a public magistrate you are to preside over LGBT weddings then you must preside over LGBT weddings.

The only argument based off of the biblical literature in regards to LGBT individuals is whether or not to kill them. Marriage has nothing to do with it.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

Marriage has nothing to do with it from my experience. It's simply a means that people use to discriminate against others (in this case gays). It's something to hide behind while spouting hate that's protected in the USA at least, but the government.
In other words, 'gay marriage' is a catalyst to stir hate and distaste among other groups.

[sf]

The title says it all folks. Where does the bible say 1.) gays can't marry 2.)you can't particpate in gay weddings 3.) you can't preside over a gay marriage(as a magistrate of the court) 4.) you can't support gay marriage.

Instead I find the bible specifically states none of the above. Instead it simplifies things.

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. Leviticus 20:13

If one is not arguing that LGBT individuals should be put to death they cannot complain about any of the above.

Considering that the law quoted above forbids homosexual behavior with punishment by death, why would additional rules be necessary?

Looking at it a different way, the bible defines marriage to be between a man and a woman. For example:

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." (Genesis 2:24)

"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." (1 Corinthians 7)

[sf]

[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

Marriage has nothing to do with it from my experience. It's simply a means that people use to discriminate against others (in this case gays). It's something to hide behind while spouting hate that's protected in the USA at least, but the government.
In other words, 'gay marriage' is a catalyst to stir hate and distaste among other groups.

I won't argue that some Christians are hateful toward homosexuals. That is not okay.

Don't people stop to wonder why God would denounce such behavior? Because he hates certain people? No, that certainly isn't biblical. He wants what is best for us, and being the creator of us, he knows best. It's just like a parent wanting what is best for a child, even when the child feels like doing something the parent doesn't approve of. Even if the parent says "because I said so," we know there is a real reason behind the prohibition that the child may not understand completely.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 3 by sfisher]

Considering that the law quoted above forbids homosexual behavior with punishment by death, why would additional rules be necessary?

That is my point precisely. The only argument that is viable from a biblical standard is advocation of the death penalty for homosexual behavior. Anything less is not biblical. There is no basis for any other regulation of same sex behavior other than the death penalty from a biblical standpoint.

To do so would still be a violation of your biblical laws. By not executing gays any advocation against gay rights is falling short of what the bible demands. There is no point to say gays can't marry or gays can't adopt. The only point available is that LGBT individuals be put to death. If you are not arguing for a death penalty for LGBT people than any other argument is besides the point and irrelevant.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 4 by sfisher]

Don't people stop to wonder why God would denounce such behavior?

From my experience, most Christians don't think (or they think but only believe what others tell them to believe). People who AREN'T Christian do think (well some of them)

Because he hates certain people? No, that certainly isn't biblical.

The bible itself says God does, indeed, hate:
Leviticus 20:23 - "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them."
Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."
Psalm 53:5 - "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them."
Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

He wants what is best for us, and being the creator of us, he knows best.

How do we know this? Based off of what one dead man said God says? Pardon me, but I don't put any stock into what some dead guy says another invisible 'thing' says or thinks. I like to think for myself.

It's just like a parent wanting what is best for a child, even when the child feels like doing something the parent doesn't approve of.

Incorrect comparison unless you can show how a loving parent will allow their child, no matter how much the child hates them, to be punished in Hell for eternity.
I'm sure there are terrible parents out there like that, but it seems they're the minority - and rightfully so. Those parents are truly evil and should be, not feared but hated and shunned.

[sf]

[Replying to post 4 by sfisher]

Because he hates certain people? No, that certainly isn't biblical.

The bible itself says God does, indeed, hate:

True. I was trying to imply that God does not "hate" anyone without reason. Sorry for not being clearer. For sake of my argument further down, I'll start by providing the reasons behind each of the verses you quoted:

Leviticus 20:23 - "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them."

"they committed all these things, and therefore" (the things referenced are listed from the beginning of this chapter)

Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."

Putting this passage in context provides the reason: "And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:" (Leviticus 26:15)

Psalm 53:5 - "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them."

The context leading up to this verse provides a reason: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God." (Psalm 53:1-4)

Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Paul is quoting a portion of Malachi 1:2-3, which is a reference to the story of brothers Jacob and Easu. Easu being one who despised his birthright (Genesis 25:30-34) and went on to be the father of the Edomites.

He wants what is best for us, and being the creator of us, he knows best.

How do we know this? Based off of what one dead man said God says? Pardon me, but I don't put any stock into what some dead guy says another invisible 'thing' says or thinks. I like to think for myself.

I'm not even sure that the Bible explicitly states that God knows what is best for us. It is just a logical conclusion that I came up to; that a creator would know what is best because the creator designed the created a certain way.

It's just like a parent wanting what is best for a child, even when the child feels like doing something the parent doesn't approve of.

Incorrect comparison unless you can show how a loving parent will allow their child, no matter how much the child hates them, to be punished in Hell for eternity.

I was speaking on premises that homosexual behavior is considered sinful. Sinning is not an irreversible sentence to hell.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 3 by sfisher]

Considering that the law quoted above forbids homosexual behavior with punishment by death, why would additional rules be necessary?

That is my point precisely. The only argument that is viable from a biblical standard is advocation of the death penalty for homosexual behavior. Anything less is not biblical. There is no basis for any other regulation of same sex behavior other than the death penalty from a biblical standpoint.

To do so would still be a violation of your biblical laws. By not executing gays any advocation against gay rights is falling short of what the bible demands. There is no point to say gays can't marry or gays can't adopt. The only point available is that LGBT individuals be put to death. If you are not arguing for a death penalty for LGBT people than any other argument is besides the point and irrelevant.

I am not equating homosexuality to anything else here. However, this argument can be used to justify marriage between any two human beings and even a human and a nonhuman. Therefore, unless one is arguing for that, the argument is not consistent.

[Hamsaka]

[Replying to post 8 by bluethread]

I am not equating homosexuality to anything else here. However, this argument can be used to justify marriage between any two human beings and even a human and a nonhuman. Therefore, unless one is arguing for that, the argument is not consistent.

It could be used that way, but that doesn't mean it WILL be used that way.

The argument would be inconsistent, as you say, if it were used to make a case for humans to marry their horse. Some chick in Seattle recently married a building to prevent it from being sold and demolished (well, that's what KING 5 news said ).

We have many 'laws' that have arbitrary lines drawn below or above which some act is unlawful. For instance, in the US, 16 years old can apply for a driver's licence. Why that particular age? Why not 14 or 21? Maybe someday the age will be changed, but I doubt it will ever be changed to allow five year old to get a license

I can see sense in drawing a line between who (and what) CAN be legally married, because parrots can't give informed consent, that we know of, to be married to their human owner. Pet whisperers may be a career of the near future, and could stand in as proxies or a kind of guardian ad litum I s'pose . . . but at least so far, civilized America, Europe, Asia and Oceania just HAVEN'T considered this to be anything but a psychiatric symptom to date. I have faith -- yes, that kind -- that we'll not be challenged to legalize goldfish/human marriages. We may be challenged to legalize polygamy or consanguineous human couples, but WILL we, automatically, like a rock rolls down that slippery slope?

This fallacy (the slippery slope) is a label I'll respectfully stick to your quote above You are by far not alone.

[Haven]

Considering that the law quoted above forbids homosexual behavior with punishment by death, why would additional rules be necessary?

Leaving aside the issue of whether the verse actually refers to homosexuality, do you actually agree that homosexual behavior should be punished by death? Should lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) people really be executed? How would you reconcile this with life in a society where the human rights of all--regardless of religion, sexual orientation, race, gender, etc.--are respected (at least by law). Do you think Jesus would kill LGB people?

Don't dodge these questions. If you really believe in a literal, totalitarian* acceptance of the Bible, then you must admit that LGB people should be punished by death, but if you're a human being with an operating conscience, you'll also know that doing such a thing is a heinous act. How do you reconcile these two things?

*in the sense of accepting the totality of the book

Looking at it a different way, the bible defines marriage to be between a man and a woman.

No, it doesn't. The Bible defines marriage in many different ways, including:

1) One man and one woman (Genesis 2:24)
2) One man and his rape victim (Deuteronomy 22:28-29, Judges 21)
3) One man and multiple women (Deuteronomy 21:15-17, among others)
4) One man and an underage girl who is a genocide victim (Numbers 31: 7-18)
5) One man and his slave (Genesis 28)

Do you really think such rules are moral? Is this a vision of marriage that you want to promote?