The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Davidjayjordan
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The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #1

Post by Davidjayjordan »

Lets debate the condition of Sodom and why the Lord destroyed the whole city. Church people like to say that it was because it was given over to homosexuality, but lets delve deeper into direct 'prophecy' from Ezekiel and others what really happened there.

Usually I would stay away from this topic as it usually gets you kicked out of a forum, but seeing it has been discussed HERE previously without problems, allow me to post, something new, I for one just noticed. The men of Sodom were heterosexuals simply and honestly because the frightened Lot, actually offered them his daughters rather than sending out the angelic men to them. It didn't work, but obviously as a long time citizen of Sodom, Lot figured trying to seduce these vile men away from the angels was worth a shot... as they were heterosexuals.

Look up the verse and verses and do note this ploy by Lot.

And then we shall progress with direct prophecy and other historical texts that show that this vile evil mob at Lots door, was not into sex for pleasure, but was into abusing foreigners and strangers and even killing them. For them, their anal sex was a means of showing their superiority over them and making them submissive to them. This all the Mid East tended to do, when they conquered a foreign army. Strip them and have anal sex with them to punish and abuse and even kill them..

Even seen in our era, as they did this to Gaddafi after his capture, even as he walked back to the jail with his captors.

And so it appears that dirty anal sex was not the sin of Sodom, but the way they treated their neighbors and the way they treated strangers. The Lord said, Love your neighbors and this horrific vile city was killing them when they entered their so called rich and progressive city.

Lets see what the Lord says about Sodom in a direct word for word prophecy in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel
16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister SODOM, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her
and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed
abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

*******

True and righteous are your judgments Lord, as pride, fulness of bread, materialism, wealth, idleness, and treating your neighbors like hell, including killing them is a horrible sin.

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Post #11

Post by Davidjayjordan »

[Replying to post 10 by Davidjayjordan]

Also do note from true history that Lots' WIFE turned back and wanted to return to Sodom......

There is no indication she lusted after women or was into gayness herself, so why did she get punished for her hearts desire to return to the filth of Sodom.

I would suggest, but can not prove that her sin was loving the wealth of Sodom, the abundance of Sodom, the idleness of Sodom, and she didn;t mind the mistreatment and killing of strangers in Sodom.

More to this Sodom story than supposed gay sex,

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Post #12

Post by KCKID »

Davidjayjordan wrote:. . .committed abominations before me

OpenYourEyes wrote:A few points...

- The part of your post i changed to bold red font leaves room for "dirty anal sex" as being part of Sodom's wrongdoing.

- The NT, Jude 1:7, also talks about some of the sins of Sodom and it mentions sexual immorality as being one their sins, and same-sex acts would fit in with that.
Ezekiel while in vision plainly describes ‘abominations’ in the Temple. Ezekiel 8:1-18:

1 In the sixth year, in the sixth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I sat in my house, with the elders of Judah sitting before me, the hand of the Lord GOD fell upon me there.

2 Then I looked, and behold, a form that had the appearance of a man. Below what appeared to be his waist was fire, and above his waist was something like the appearance of brightness, like gleaming metal.

3 He put out the form of a hand and took me by a lock of my head, and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and brought me invisions of God to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the gateway of the inner court that faces north, where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provokes to jealousy.

4 And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, like the vision that I saw in the valley.

5 Then he said to me, “Son of man, lift up your eyes now toward the north.� So I lifted up my eyes toward the north, and behold, north of the altar gate, in the entrance, was this image of jealousy.

6 And he said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations that the house of Israel are committing here, to drive me far from my sanctuary? But you will see still greater abominations.�

7 And he brought me to the entrance of the court, and when I looked, behold, there was a hole in the wall.

8 Then he said to me, “Son of man, dig in the wall.� So I dug in the wall, and behold, there was an entrance.

9 And he said to me, “Go in, and see the vile abominations that they are committing here.�

10 So I went in and saw. And there, engraved on the wall all around, was every form of creeping things and loathsome beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel.

11 And before them stood seventy men of the elders of the house of Israel, with Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan standing among them. Each had his censer in his hand, and the smoke of the cloud of incense went up.

12 Then he said to me, “Son of man, have you seen what the elders of the house of Israel are doing in the dark, each in his room of pictures? For they say, ‘The LORD does not see us, the LORD has forsaken the land.’�

13 He said also to me, “You will see still greater abominations that they commit.�

14 Then he brought me to the entrance of the north gate of the house of the LORD, and behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

15 Then he said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? You will see still greater abominations than these.�

16 And he brought me into the inner court of the house of the LORD. And behold, at the entrance of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east, worshiping the sun toward the east.

17 Then he said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? Is it too light a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations that they commit here, that they should fill the land with violence and provoke me still further to anger? Behold, they put the branch to their nose.

18 Therefore I will act in wrath. My eye will not spare, nor will I have pity. And though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.�


'Abominations' as described here leave little doubt as to the meaning of the term when associated with idolatry practices. Sexual acts were a part of idol worship and the above description might just as well be applied to Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:22-27 and every other scriptural reference to same gender activity when referred to as 'abomination'.

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Post #13

Post by OpenYourEyes »

KCKID wrote: Ezekiel while in vision plainly describes ‘abominations’ in the Temple. Ezekiel 8:1-18:

1 In the sixth year, in the sixth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I sat in my house, with the elders of Judah sitting before me, the hand of the Lord GOD fell upon me there.

2 Then I looked, and behold, a form that had the appearance of a man. Below what appeared to be his waist was fire, and above his waist was something like the appearance of brightness, like gleaming metal.

3 He put out the form of a hand and took me by a lock of my head, and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and brought me invisions of God to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the gateway of the inner court that faces north, where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provokes to jealousy.

4 And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, like the vision that I saw in the valley.

5 Then he said to me, “Son of man, lift up your eyes now toward the north.� So I lifted up my eyes toward the north, and behold, north of the altar gate, in the entrance, was this image of jealousy.

6 And he said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations that the house of Israel are committing here, to drive me far from my sanctuary? But you will see still greater abominations.�

7 And he brought me to the entrance of the court, and when I looked, behold, there was a hole in the wall.

8 Then he said to me, “Son of man, dig in the wall.� So I dug in the wall, and behold, there was an entrance.

9 And he said to me, “Go in, and see the vile abominations that they are committing here.�

10 So I went in and saw. And there, engraved on the wall all around, was every form of creeping things and loathsome beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel.

11 And before them stood seventy men of the elders of the house of Israel, with Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan standing among them. Each had his censer in his hand, and the smoke of the cloud of incense went up.

12 Then he said to me, “Son of man, have you seen what the elders of the house of Israel are doing in the dark, each in his room of pictures? For they say, ‘The LORD does not see us, the LORD has forsaken the land.’�

13 He said also to me, “You will see still greater abominations that they commit.�

14 Then he brought me to the entrance of the north gate of the house of the LORD, and behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

15 Then he said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? You will see still greater abominations than these.�

16 And he brought me into the inner court of the house of the LORD. And behold, at the entrance of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east, worshiping the sun toward the east.

17 Then he said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? Is it too light a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations that they commit here, that they should fill the land with violence and provoke me still further to anger? Behold, they put the branch to their nose.

18 Therefore I will act in wrath. My eye will not spare, nor will I have pity. And though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.�


'Abominations' as described here leave little doubt as to the meaning of the term when associated with idolatry practices. Sexual acts were a part of idol worship and the above description might just as well be applied to Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:22-27 and every other scriptural reference to same gender activity when referred to as 'abomination'.
Actually, same-sex acts is not the only thing called an "abomination" in Leviticus 18. Everything described in Leviticus 18, including a man marrying two sisters, having sex with animals, etc, are all collectively labeled as "abominations" according to Leviticus 18:24-30. IF you think that's too far-fetched to call all these things "abominations" then also look at cross-dressing being referred to as an "abomination" in Deuteronomy 22:5, or Deuteronomy 24:4 where it talks about sleeping with a non-virgin woman, or Leviticus 11:9-12 regarding eating shellfish being an abomination. Such wide usage, would indicate that it applied to things beyond just temple practices. Other biblical passages speak to same-sex acts, as well, including one primary function of marriage, ie to reproduce. It is the only relationship that you should engage in the act that leads to reproduction.

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Post #14

Post by Davidjayjordan »

[Replying to post 13 by OpenYourEyes]

But as mentioned the worst abomination is hardly sex for pleasure, but abominable act of killing aniother fellow human being...

The Lord is not very concerned about our sex lives, but much more concerned about how we treat our neighbors and fellow human beings.

The men and women of Sodom failed very miserably in their abominations on the poor and needy that came into their so called wealthy and prosperous city. The Lord changed that.... via his righteous and true judgments, for they were worthy.

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Post #15

Post by Davidjayjordan »

[Replying to post 14 by Davidjayjordan]

Further more lets read and comprehend what the Lord of Lords said about Sodom...not Jude, not Paul but what Jesus said about Sodom and the people there. Why because the people of Sodom didn;t have many works or words to help them ...

22"Nevertheless I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. 23"And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day. 24"Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you."


Read it again and catch the significance....... these people did not see many miracles in their far off city, as so many other cities had seen. Nevertheless they were vile in their treatment of others and so the Lord judged them in there HERE and THEN and yet in the future judgment, they shall be more tolerated than others, according to the fair and just LORD. But most church Christians refuse to read what Jesus said and stated and how He lived

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Post #16

Post by Davidjayjordan »

[Replying to post 10 by Davidjayjordan]

Furthermore the Lord of Creation called Jesus when He came said ...... watch out who you accuse and call Raca.

Look up the word Raca and its meaning ...

And then humbly realize that calling others undeserving names and labels and saying such people are going to hell because they dont have the standard orientation is rather dangerous. Read it and maybe drop some of the wrath and self righteousness some have towards gays, lesbians, and trannies and bis etc etc etc.....

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Mathew 5 : 22

They are not murderers and killers, they are just people trying to live their lives their way. Do consider not calling them Raca...

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Post #17

Post by OpenYourEyes »

Davidjayjordan wrote:
"Judes writing surely do not have the same clarity as direct RED LETTER PROPHECY, THUS SAITH THE LORD WORDS as in Ezekiel......

Neither were Pauls words written encathedral......
but returning tEzekiel's direct prophecy do note that it says distinctly they were

neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."

My response:
The passage in Jude about Sodom is very clear, so is the account in Genesis in that it violates God's clear command to not engage in same-sex acts. You can also refer to 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that reinforces that point. Can you give me a logical reason why you reject the validity of Jude's message but yet you want to quote from a disputed and non-canonical book of Jasher.

--------------------------------------------
Davidjayjordan wrote: For as a missionary almost all of my life, when people hurt the poor and the needy they do get judged and usually it is very very quickly, not always but usually.

A scary thing to hurt the young, the poor and the needy or strangers !!!
What prompted the strangers to act was not about the Sodomites not treating the poor as the angels were not real men nor poor, to begin with. God would've also known that.

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Post #18

Post by Davidjayjordan »

A poster above stated...'Abominations' as described here leave little doubt as to the meaning of the term when associated with idolatry practices. Sexual acts were a part of idol worship and the above description might just as well be applied to Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:22-27 and every other scriptural reference to same gender activity when referred to as 'abomination'.

I differ greatly as prophecy states the Great Whore is female and receives her lovers and gives them materialistic gifts, etc..... Shes called the Great Whore and she is the abomination of abominations....... and is part of the Abomination of Desolation. Surely you must know this, because the people of the world worship things, idol worship and materialism... IE capitalism and taking from the poor.

Nothing there indicates anything about gay sex for pleasure... they steal not for necessity but for the lust of power.

Do consider changing your mind about your brethren, if they have love and not hate in their hearts. Thanks

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Post #19

Post by Davidjayjordan »

OpenYourEyes wrote: Davidjayjordan wrote:
"Judes writing surely do not have the same clarity as direct RED LETTER PROPHECY, THUS SAITH THE LORD WORDS as in Ezekiel......

Neither were Pauls words written encathedral......
but returning tEzekiel's direct prophecy do note that it says distinctly they were

neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."

My response:
The passage in Jude about Sodom is very clear, so is the account in Genesis in that it violates God's clear command to not engage in same-sex acts. You can also refer to 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that reinforces that point. Can you give me a logical reason why you reject the validity of Jude's message but yet you want to quote from a disputed and non-canonical book of Jasher.

--------------------------------------------
Davidjayjordan wrote: For as a missionary almost all of my life, when people hurt the poor and the needy they do get judged and usually it is very very quickly, not always but usually.

A scary thing to hurt the young, the poor and the needy or strangers !!!
What prompted the strangers to act was not about the Sodomites not treating the poor as the angels were not real men nor poor, to begin with. God would've also known that.
Jesus words are red letter and en cathedral, and valid and over-rules mere disciples words to other mere disciples.

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Post #20

Post by Davidjayjordan »

Open your eyes stated... What prompted the strangers to act was not about the Sodomites not treating the poor as the angels were not real men nor poor, to begin with. God would've also known that.

********************

The angels were men and had real male parts as do real angels. But thats a longer story, even if they all were not created equal.

The heterosexual macho heathen men of Sodom didn;t know they were rich as these real angels need not parade their wealth around with them or before them and so to the heathen they would again seem poor, as the rich love to show their riches and wealth. Dont you know these things.

The Lord knows his own, but mankind seldom sees to the heart and soul and to the real wealth. Agreed ?

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