The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Davidjayjordan
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The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #1

Post by Davidjayjordan »

Lets debate the condition of Sodom and why the Lord destroyed the whole city. Church people like to say that it was because it was given over to homosexuality, but lets delve deeper into direct 'prophecy' from Ezekiel and others what really happened there.

Usually I would stay away from this topic as it usually gets you kicked out of a forum, but seeing it has been discussed HERE previously without problems, allow me to post, something new, I for one just noticed. The men of Sodom were heterosexuals simply and honestly because the frightened Lot, actually offered them his daughters rather than sending out the angelic men to them. It didn't work, but obviously as a long time citizen of Sodom, Lot figured trying to seduce these vile men away from the angels was worth a shot... as they were heterosexuals.

Look up the verse and verses and do note this ploy by Lot.

And then we shall progress with direct prophecy and other historical texts that show that this vile evil mob at Lots door, was not into sex for pleasure, but was into abusing foreigners and strangers and even killing them. For them, their anal sex was a means of showing their superiority over them and making them submissive to them. This all the Mid East tended to do, when they conquered a foreign army. Strip them and have anal sex with them to punish and abuse and even kill them..

Even seen in our era, as they did this to Gaddafi after his capture, even as he walked back to the jail with his captors.

And so it appears that dirty anal sex was not the sin of Sodom, but the way they treated their neighbors and the way they treated strangers. The Lord said, Love your neighbors and this horrific vile city was killing them when they entered their so called rich and progressive city.

Lets see what the Lord says about Sodom in a direct word for word prophecy in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel
16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister SODOM, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her
and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed
abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

*******

True and righteous are your judgments Lord, as pride, fulness of bread, materialism, wealth, idleness, and treating your neighbors like hell, including killing them is a horrible sin.

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Post #21

Post by Davidjayjordan »

As Jesus said to the accusing mob or audience trying to defame the socalled slut before them.......

Where are thine accusers ?

So where are all all those people that have so accused our brethen, our fellow human beings. Are they picking up stones, or were and are they still afraid to proceed in calling others Raca.... RACA.

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Post #22

Post by mitty »

[Replying to post 8 by Davidjayjordan] Apart from the incestuous Lot trying to marry off or pimp his daughters, there is no mention of sexual activity in the S&G story, but only about inhospitality (Matt 11:24). It's just silly to think that all the old men and boys were lining up to have their turn with a couple of strangers while their wives & mothers looked on, and particularly when the incestuous Lot was readily available outside the house. Gen 19:4-5 only says that the men, women & children of Sodom ("all the people") wanted to know what a couple of strangers were up to, and to suggest that the word "know" is defined in a dictionary as a synonym for anal sex is silly.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #23

Post by Yahu »

[Replying to post 1 by Davidjayjordan]

I agree they were not gay. They were bi-sexual.

They were practicing the pagan religion of the area which involved sexual forms of worship and was the direct worship of Angles and their Nephilim offspring. They used Asherah Poles as standing a phallic symbol used in sexual rights in the grove sacred to Baal and Ashtoreth. They KNEW what kind of children could be produced by angelic fathers. Not long before the incident with Lot, the four kings had killed off all the rephaim, ie giants, of the region. They wanted to repopulate their giant and mighty men they had lost in battle with a new pure strain of angelic dna.

Now the attempted sexual assault against the angels is directly paralleled in the story of the near destruction of the tribe of Benjamin. Again the local men wanted to take the visitor into the local grove. In that case they did take the Levites concubine and abused her to death. Those Benjaminites were practicing the same pagan rights.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #24

Post by bluedog »

[Replying to post 1 by Davidjayjordan]

Of course the people of antiquity who recorded these passages and coined the term Sodomite to indicate homosexuality....do not know as much as some modern people sometimes 5000 years removed from the events. :D

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #25

Post by catnip »

Davidjayjordan wrote: Lets debate the condition of Sodom and why the Lord destroyed the whole city. Church people like to say that it was because it was given over to homosexuality, but lets delve deeper into direct 'prophecy' from Ezekiel and others what really happened there.

Usually I would stay away from this topic as it usually gets you kicked out of a forum, but seeing it has been discussed HERE previously without problems, allow me to post, something new, I for one just noticed. The men of Sodom were heterosexuals simply and honestly because the frightened Lot, actually offered them his daughters rather than sending out the angelic men to them. It didn't work, but obviously as a long time citizen of Sodom, Lot figured trying to seduce these vile men away from the angels was worth a shot... as they were heterosexuals.

Look up the verse and verses and do note this ploy by Lot.

And then we shall progress with direct prophecy and other historical texts that show that this vile evil mob at Lots door, was not into sex for pleasure, but was into abusing foreigners and strangers and even killing them. For them, their anal sex was a means of showing their superiority over them and making them submissive to them. This all the Mid East tended to do, when they conquered a foreign army. Strip them and have anal sex with them to punish and abuse and even kill them..

Even seen in our era, as they did this to Gaddafi after his capture, even as he walked back to the jail with his captors.

And so it appears that dirty anal sex was not the sin of Sodom, but the way they treated their neighbors and the way they treated strangers. The Lord said, Love your neighbors and this horrific vile city was killing them when they entered their so called rich and progressive city.

Lets see what the Lord says about Sodom in a direct word for word prophecy in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel
16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister SODOM, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her
and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed
abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

*******

True and righteous are your judgments Lord, as pride, fulness of bread, materialism, wealth, idleness, and treating your neighbors like hell, including killing them is a horrible sin.
Just to be clear: The men of Sodom were demanding that the angels be sent out so they could "know them", they intended to force themselves on innocents who didn't want sex. This is not either homosexuality or heterosexuality, at least not normally. It is RAPE. Plain and simple. And rape is, as the above poster claimed, not for the purpose of pleasure, but to diminish the other person and to dominate. And that is inarguable! Lest the angels themselves went out an pimped themselves forcing Lot to come out and drag them behind closed doors. Which he didn't. (I do realize that some of you fantasize that homosexuals are going to rape you, given a chance, but rest assured, it is merely a sexual fantasy. You might want to examine why you cook up this nonsense.)

And finally, and I forget exactly where but I could probably find it on the net somewhere, the OT refers back to Sodom and specifically states that the reason for their sin was lack of hospitality. They did not welcome the strangers and give them their best, but attempted to dominate them.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #26

Post by bluethread »

catnip wrote:

And finally, and I forget exactly where but I could probably find it on the net somewhere, the OT refers back to Sodom and specifically states that the reason for their sin was lack of hospitality. They did not welcome the strangers and give them their best, but attempted to dominate them.
Here is the passage that is generally presented to support this argument.

Ez. 16:49 "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."

If you will notice, the fact that she did not "strengthen the hand of the poor and needy" is in addition to "the iniquity" that the verse refers to. Even then, "pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness" are not being presented as exclusive reasons, but a summary of a cultural dynamic. The indication is that they were self centered and hedonistic. Though it can be argued that homosexuality is not inherently hedonistic, the primary justifications for it are romantic and/or hedonistic.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #27

Post by catnip »

bluethread wrote:
catnip wrote:

And finally, and I forget exactly where but I could probably find it on the net somewhere, the OT refers back to Sodom and specifically states that the reason for their sin was lack of hospitality. They did not welcome the strangers and give them their best, but attempted to dominate them.
Here is the passage that is generally presented to support this argument.

Ez. 16:49 "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."

If you will notice, the fact that she did not "strengthen the hand of the poor and needy" is in addition to "the iniquity" that the verse refers to. Even then, "pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness" are not being presented as exclusive reasons, but a summary of a cultural dynamic. The indication is that they were self centered and hedonistic. Though it can be argued that homosexuality is not inherently hedonistic, the primary justifications for it are romantic and/or hedonistic.
Thank you very much for providing that.

I disagree and I think the primary justification for it, if there is one, is nature herself. And that has not a thing to do with the act of rape.

I'm sorry I am so rigid about the issue, but people should be perfectly clear that rape is psychologically unsound and for the purpose of dominating the victim. Rapists should go to jail. As a woman I am very concerned that men can read that passage and see anything else. There should be no confusion between human sexuality and rape.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #28

Post by bluethread »

social
catnip wrote: There should be no confusion between human sexuality and rape.
There should be no confusion between business and theft either. However, if one is judging business practices, theft may not be the only factor involved. One does not have to be a woman to see rape as a bad thing. If one is just making a judgment regarding a specific incident, it might be possible to isolate a singular cause. However, if we are talking about a judgment regarding a social dynamic, a singular cause is rarely identifiable. I have no doubt that rape was a motivation among those in the crowd. However, it does not diminish the nature of rape to acknowledge that there are also other things at play here.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #29

Post by mitty »

catnip wrote:
Davidjayjordan wrote: Lets debate the condition of Sodom and why the Lord destroyed the whole city. Church people like to say that it was because it was given over to homosexuality, but lets delve deeper into direct 'prophecy' from Ezekiel and others what really happened there.

Usually I would stay away from this topic as it usually gets you kicked out of a forum, but seeing it has been discussed HERE previously without problems, allow me to post, something new, I for one just noticed. The men of Sodom were heterosexuals simply and honestly because the frightened Lot, actually offered them his daughters rather than sending out the angelic men to them. It didn't work, but obviously as a long time citizen of Sodom, Lot figured trying to seduce these vile men away from the angels was worth a shot... as they were heterosexuals.

Look up the verse and verses and do note this ploy by Lot.

And then we shall progress with direct prophecy and other historical texts that show that this vile evil mob at Lots door, was not into sex for pleasure, but was into abusing foreigners and strangers and even killing them. For them, their anal sex was a means of showing their superiority over them and making them submissive to them. This all the Mid East tended to do, when they conquered a foreign army. Strip them and have anal sex with them to punish and abuse and even kill them..

Even seen in our era, as they did this to Gaddafi after his capture, even as he walked back to the jail with his captors.

And so it appears that dirty anal sex was not the sin of Sodom, but the way they treated their neighbors and the way they treated strangers. The Lord said, Love your neighbors and this horrific vile city was killing them when they entered their so called rich and progressive city.

Lets see what the Lord says about Sodom in a direct word for word prophecy in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel
16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister SODOM, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her
and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed
abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

*******

True and righteous are your judgments Lord, as pride, fulness of bread, materialism, wealth, idleness, and treating your neighbors like hell, including killing them is a horrible sin.
Just to be clear: The men of Sodom were demanding that the angels be sent out so they could "know them", they intended to force themselves on innocents who didn't want sex. This is not either homosexuality or heterosexuality, at least not normally. It is RAPE. Plain and simple. And rape is, as the above poster claimed, not for the purpose of pleasure, but to diminish the other person and to dominate. And that is inarguable! Lest the angels themselves went out an pimped themselves forcing Lot to come out and drag them behind closed doors. Which he didn't. (I do realize that some of you fantasize that homosexuals are going to rape you, given a chance, but rest assured, it is merely a sexual fantasy. You might want to examine why you cook up this nonsense.)

And finally, and I forget exactly where but I could probably find it on the net somewhere, the OT refers back to Sodom and specifically states that the reason for their sin was lack of hospitality. They did not welcome the strangers and give them their best, but attempted to dominate them.
The story doesn't say that the men women and children ("all the people") wanted to have sex with two strangers. It simply says that all the people wanted to know them, presumably to find out what they were up to and why they were in their town[[/u]

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #30

Post by catnip »

bluethread wrote: social
catnip wrote: There should be no confusion between human sexuality and rape.
There should be no confusion between business and theft either. However, if one is judging business practices, theft may not be the only factor involved. One does not have to be a woman to see rape as a bad thing. If one is just making a judgment regarding a specific incident, it might be possible to isolate a singular cause. However, if we are talking about a judgment regarding a social dynamic, a singular cause is rarely identifiable. I have no doubt that rape was a motivation among those in the crowd. However, it does not diminish the nature of rape to acknowledge that there are also other things at play here.
Pedophiles are historically heterosexuals. At the time, in war, it was used by victors as the ultimate humiliation of their conquered foe, an order given to the troops. In prisons here in the U.S. today, rape is a threat used by other prisoners to control other prisoners. There is no reason whatsoever to read into the narrative a bias against homosexuals historically or otherwise.

What I see here is people misapplying the scriptures to support their own agendas.

Rape is a horror!

I'm not going to bother to say more. The fact that they were demanding that the angels be sent out so they could know them is sufficient. It is exactly what the narrative says and nothing else.

I am a total snob against those who read things into the scriptures that are not there. Read the plain sense of the passage, exactly the words that are written and think about what it says exactly, rid yourself of preconceived notions, they are misleading you. (yes, I repeated the word exactly in order to stress it) You were the one that posted its later reference and the sin of Sodom.

I am very concerned that now, in the U.S., rape is a growing problem. T-shirts were even sold by Amazon promoting rape. Gang rape has been in the news too much in recent years. Too bad this passage can't be used against rape--as it is about rape! And whether heterosexuals rape other men or not--and we know they do--is being brushed aside to build hate against people for something they are no more prone to do than their heterosexual counterparts.

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