The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Davidjayjordan
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The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #1

Post by Davidjayjordan »

Lets debate the condition of Sodom and why the Lord destroyed the whole city. Church people like to say that it was because it was given over to homosexuality, but lets delve deeper into direct 'prophecy' from Ezekiel and others what really happened there.

Usually I would stay away from this topic as it usually gets you kicked out of a forum, but seeing it has been discussed HERE previously without problems, allow me to post, something new, I for one just noticed. The men of Sodom were heterosexuals simply and honestly because the frightened Lot, actually offered them his daughters rather than sending out the angelic men to them. It didn't work, but obviously as a long time citizen of Sodom, Lot figured trying to seduce these vile men away from the angels was worth a shot... as they were heterosexuals.

Look up the verse and verses and do note this ploy by Lot.

And then we shall progress with direct prophecy and other historical texts that show that this vile evil mob at Lots door, was not into sex for pleasure, but was into abusing foreigners and strangers and even killing them. For them, their anal sex was a means of showing their superiority over them and making them submissive to them. This all the Mid East tended to do, when they conquered a foreign army. Strip them and have anal sex with them to punish and abuse and even kill them..

Even seen in our era, as they did this to Gaddafi after his capture, even as he walked back to the jail with his captors.

And so it appears that dirty anal sex was not the sin of Sodom, but the way they treated their neighbors and the way they treated strangers. The Lord said, Love your neighbors and this horrific vile city was killing them when they entered their so called rich and progressive city.

Lets see what the Lord says about Sodom in a direct word for word prophecy in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel
16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister SODOM, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her
and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed
abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

*******

True and righteous are your judgments Lord, as pride, fulness of bread, materialism, wealth, idleness, and treating your neighbors like hell, including killing them is a horrible sin.

Yahu
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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #41

Post by Yahu »

mitty wrote: Now, not that Im anyway a supporter of homosexual activity but no where in scripture does it state the sin of Sodom was Sodomy. We automatically make that assumption because the word Sodomy in our language was derived from the 'sin of Soddom' yet the Hebrew word translated as sodomy had NOTHING to do with the city of Sodom.
And what was the sin of Gomorrah?[/quote]

They were Canaanites that followed the same evil religion. They were also of a polluted bloodline by angelic dna.

Why do you think Yah later ordered the total extermination of the Canaanite people in the land 400 years later?

They were also squatters. The lands were divided up in the days of Peleg among the descendants of Ham, Shem and Japheth into the 70 nations. The Hamites were to settle in Africa, not Palestine. The Canaanites took the land from the Shemite inheritance.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #42

Post by mitty »

Yahu wrote:
mitty wrote: Now, not that Im anyway a supporter of homosexual activity but no where in scripture does it state the sin of Sodom was Sodomy. We automatically make that assumption because the word Sodomy in our language was derived from the 'sin of Soddom' yet the Hebrew word translated as sodomy had NOTHING to do with the city of Sodom.
And what was the sin of Gomorrah?
They were Canaanites that followed the same evil religion. They were also of a polluted bloodline by angelic dna.

Why do you think Yah later ordered the total extermination of the Canaanite people in the land 400 years later?

They were also squatters. The lands were divided up in the days of Peleg among the descendants of Ham, Shem and Japheth into the 70 nations. The Hamites were to settle in Africa, not Palestine. The Canaanites took the land from the Shemite inheritance.


Where does the bible say that the Canaanites (Ham's descendants) were to settle in Africa and not Palestine (Canaan)? And why did Yah condone the crimes against humanity committed by Joshua and his thieving marauders, including the butchering of little kids and the unborn (Josh 6:21 8;26 10:37)? And does Yah condemn the Zionists for similarly dispossessing the Palestinian Semites in the late 1940's?

And why did Yah drown most of Noah's family, including Noah's grandfather (Gen 5:27), Noah's widowed mother (Gen 5:31), Noah's aunts & uncles (Gen 5:26) and Noah's other children (Gen 5:32)?

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #43

Post by bluethread »

catnip wrote:
bluethread wrote:
I have not "brushed away" rape. It is you who is brushing away the passage that is used to argue that it was the sin of being inhospitable, by those who justify homosexual behavior. Have you corrected them on that? Have you been just as insistent in telling them that it is not about being inhospitable, but is simply about rape? In fact, if you are "a total snob against those who read things into the scriptures that are not there", why are you bringing up rape. That is not among the words that are "exactly" written. One must look at the context and compare it to other contexts with which one is familiar, just as you have done in placing it in the context of modern rape research. So, it appears, by your standard, your bias has caused you to misapplying the scriptures to support their own agenda.
Not me! I was the one who brought up the reference that claimed their sin was inhospitality--and you provided the chapter and verse because I couldn't remember where it was.

And I also already explained why the sexual sin would be rape. Because the people were pounding on the door demanding that the angels be sent out to them so they could "know them".

Hmmmm . . . maybe review the conversation?
OK, so what passage are you referring to that has a direct reference to rape, since you are self identified as "a total snob against those who read things into the scriptures that are not there"? Aren't you referring to grammatical and cultural context here in translating "know them" as rape? If that is the case, why are you objecting to others using grammatical and cultural context to translate it as homosexuality?

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #44

Post by Yahu »

bluethread wrote:Aren't you referring to grammatical and cultural context here in translating "know them" as rape?
You have to understand Hebrew and how definitions are derived in the paleo-hebrew.

The word "Da'at" in Hebrew is the word for 'knowledge'. It is spelled Dalet, Ayin, Tav. In the paleo-hebrew those are the symbols for 'door', 'eye', 'covenant'. So 'Knowledge' is using the doorway of the eye to read about the covenant. So the Hebrew concept of 'knowledge' is knowledge of scripture.

Now each of the letter also has alternate meanings. The 'eye' in Ayin could be an 'eye' or when used vertically also represented the vaginal opening so the same word for knowledge also had an alternate meaning of using the doorway of the vagina in covenant, ie sexual activity within a marriage.

So the act of 'knowing' an individual in Hebrew is engaging in a sexual act by the alternate definition of the word.

Now 'knowing' an individual by force would constitute our concept of rape.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #45

Post by bluethread »

Yahu wrote:
bluethread wrote:Aren't you referring to grammatical and cultural context here in translating "know them" as rape?
You have to understand Hebrew and how definitions are derived in the paleo-hebrew.

The word "Da'at" in Hebrew is the word for 'knowledge'. It is spelled Dalet, Ayin, Tav. In the paleo-hebrew those are the symbols for 'door', 'eye', 'covenant'. So 'Knowledge' is using the doorway of the eye to read about the covenant. So the Hebrew concept of 'knowledge' is knowledge of scripture.

Now each of the letter also has alternate meanings. The 'eye' in Ayin could be an 'eye' or when used vertically also represented the vaginal opening so the same word for knowledge also had an alternate meaning of using the doorway of the vagina in covenant, ie sexual activity within a marriage.

So the act of 'knowing' an individual in Hebrew is engaging in a sexual act by the alternate definition of the word.

Now 'knowing' an individual by force would constitute our concept of rape.
Interesting numerological gnostic interpretation, to which you are welcome. However, that does not preclude a similar interpretation to establish that homosexuality was also a factor in the messenger's judgment.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #46

Post by shnarkle »

Davidjayjordan wrote: Lets debate the condition of Sodom and why the Lord destroyed the whole city. Church people like to say that it was because it was given over to homosexuality, but lets delve deeper into direct 'prophecy' from Ezekiel and others what really happened there.

Usually I would stay away from this topic as it usually gets you kicked out of a forum, but seeing it has been discussed HERE previously without problems, allow me to post, something new, I for one just noticed. The men of Sodom were heterosexuals simply and honestly because the frightened Lot, actually offered them his daughters rather than sending out the angelic men to them. It didn't work, but obviously as a long time citizen of Sodom, Lot figured trying to seduce these vile men away from the angels was worth a shot... as they were heterosexuals.
It really doesn't matter if they were homosexuals or heterosexuals. What matters is what they were doing. "God is not a respecter of persons". Kleptomaniacs, compulsive liars, alcoholics, drug addicts etc. are all probably born that way, yet this in now way justifies stealing, lying, drug abuse, etc. The text isn't spotlighting the sexual orientation of the inhabitants of these cities.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #47

Post by mitty »

bluethread wrote:
Yahu wrote:
bluethread wrote:Aren't you referring to grammatical and cultural context here in translating "know them" as rape?
You have to understand Hebrew and how definitions are derived in the paleo-hebrew.

The word "Da'at" in Hebrew is the word for 'knowledge'. It is spelled Dalet, Ayin, Tav. In the paleo-hebrew those are the symbols for 'door', 'eye', 'covenant'. So 'Knowledge' is using the doorway of the eye to read about the covenant. So the Hebrew concept of 'knowledge' is knowledge of scripture.

Now each of the letter also has alternate meanings. The 'eye' in Ayin could be an 'eye' or when used vertically also represented the vaginal opening so the same word for knowledge also had an alternate meaning of using the doorway of the vagina in covenant, ie sexual activity within a marriage.

So the act of 'knowing' an individual in Hebrew is engaging in a sexual act by the alternate definition of the word.

Now 'knowing' an individual by force would constitute our concept of rape.
Interesting numerological gnostic interpretation, to which you are welcome. However, that does not preclude a similar interpretation to establish that homosexuality was also a factor in the messenger's judgment.
But the S&G story has nothing to do with homosexuality and describes how Lot mocked his sons-in-law and how he tried to pimp their future wives when his sons-in-law wanted to know what two strangers were up to in Lot's house, and how Lot sneaked out of Zoar and sexually assaulted his daughters.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #48

Post by Menotu »

Davidjayjordan wrote: Lets debate the condition of Sodom and why the Lord destroyed the whole city. Church people like to say that it was because it was given over to homosexuality, but lets delve deeper into direct 'prophecy' from Ezekiel and others what really happened there.

Usually I would stay away from this topic as it usually gets you kicked out of a forum, but seeing it has been discussed HERE previously without problems, allow me to post, something new, I for one just noticed. The men of Sodom were heterosexuals simply and honestly because the frightened Lot, actually offered them his daughters rather than sending out the angelic men to them. It didn't work, but obviously as a long time citizen of Sodom, Lot figured trying to seduce these vile men away from the angels was worth a shot... as they were heterosexuals.

Look up the verse and verses and do note this ploy by Lot.

And then we shall progress with direct prophecy and other historical texts that show that this vile evil mob at Lots door, was not into sex for pleasure, but was into abusing foreigners and strangers and even killing them. For them, their anal sex was a means of showing their superiority over them and making them submissive to them. This all the Mid East tended to do, when they conquered a foreign army. Strip them and have anal sex with them to punish and abuse and even kill them..

Even seen in our era, as they did this to Gaddafi after his capture, even as he walked back to the jail with his captors.

And so it appears that dirty anal sex was not the sin of Sodom, but the way they treated their neighbors and the way they treated strangers. The Lord said, Love your neighbors and this horrific vile city was killing them when they entered their so called rich and progressive city.

Lets see what the Lord says about Sodom in a direct word for word prophecy in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel
16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister SODOM, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her
and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed
abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

*******

True and righteous are your judgments Lord, as pride, fulness of bread, materialism, wealth, idleness, and treating your neighbors like hell, including killing them is a horrible sin.

Not sure god could technically sin, but yeah his actions are pretty much 'jerk-like' through much of the Old Testament. It's almost like he's a spoiled child with no parental supervision that takes his 'joy' over making the lives of those who don't kiss up to him, miserable. Or dead.
Other than fear, why anyone would want to worship him is beyond me.
That out of the way, I've heard and seen much that shows his actions wasn't due to them being gay, but for doing other, terrible things to other people.
But people who hate gay people need something to hide their hate behind and this example is just as good, if not better, than most other things. listed in the bible (while ignoring other things that say the opposite). It's very telling what type of people hold on to this thinking IMO.

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #49

Post by mitty »

Menotu wrote:
Davidjayjordan wrote: Lets debate the condition of Sodom and why the Lord destroyed the whole city. Church people like to say that it was because it was given over to homosexuality, but lets delve deeper into direct 'prophecy' from Ezekiel and others what really happened there.

Usually I would stay away from this topic as it usually gets you kicked out of a forum, but seeing it has been discussed HERE previously without problems, allow me to post, something new, I for one just noticed. The men of Sodom were heterosexuals simply and honestly because the frightened Lot, actually offered them his daughters rather than sending out the angelic men to them. It didn't work, but obviously as a long time citizen of Sodom, Lot figured trying to seduce these vile men away from the angels was worth a shot... as they were heterosexuals.

Look up the verse and verses and do note this ploy by Lot.

And then we shall progress with direct prophecy and other historical texts that show that this vile evil mob at Lots door, was not into sex for pleasure, but was into abusing foreigners and strangers and even killing them. For them, their anal sex was a means of showing their superiority over them and making them submissive to them. This all the Mid East tended to do, when they conquered a foreign army. Strip them and have anal sex with them to punish and abuse and even kill them..

Even seen in our era, as they did this to Gaddafi after his capture, even as he walked back to the jail with his captors.

And so it appears that dirty anal sex was not the sin of Sodom, but the way they treated their neighbors and the way they treated strangers. The Lord said, Love your neighbors and this horrific vile city was killing them when they entered their so called rich and progressive city.

Lets see what the Lord says about Sodom in a direct word for word prophecy in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel
16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister SODOM, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her
and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed
abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

*******

True and righteous are your judgments Lord, as pride, fulness of bread, materialism, wealth, idleness, and treating your neighbors like hell, including killing them is a horrible sin.

Not sure god could technically sin, but yeah his actions are pretty much 'jerk-like' through much of the Old Testament. It's almost like he's a spoiled child with no parental supervision that takes his 'joy' over making the lives of those who don't kiss up to him, miserable. Or dead.
Other than fear, why anyone would want to worship him is beyond me.
That out of the way, I've heard and seen much that shows his actions wasn't due to them being gay, but for doing other, terrible things to other people.
But people who hate gay people need something to hide their hate behind and this example is just as good, if not better, than most other things. listed in the bible (while ignoring other things that say the opposite). It's very telling what type of people hold on to this thinking IMO.
And those people people who hold onto that need to explain why they believe that Lot's sons-in-law preferred to have sex with the two strangers in Lot's house instead of with their future wives, or with Lot when he came outside and then mocked them.
:study: :study: :study:

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Re: The vile men of Sodom were heterosexuals and not gays

Post #50

Post by mitty »

Menotu wrote:
Davidjayjordan wrote: Lets debate the condition of Sodom and why the Lord destroyed the whole city. Church people like to say that it was because it was given over to homosexuality, but lets delve deeper into direct 'prophecy' from Ezekiel and others what really happened there.

Usually I would stay away from this topic as it usually gets you kicked out of a forum, but seeing it has been discussed HERE previously without problems, allow me to post, something new, I for one just noticed. The men of Sodom were heterosexuals simply and honestly because the frightened Lot, actually offered them his daughters rather than sending out the angelic men to them. It didn't work, but obviously as a long time citizen of Sodom, Lot figured trying to seduce these vile men away from the angels was worth a shot... as they were heterosexuals.

Look up the verse and verses and do note this ploy by Lot.

And then we shall progress with direct prophecy and other historical texts that show that this vile evil mob at Lots door, was not into sex for pleasure, but was into abusing foreigners and strangers and even killing them. For them, their anal sex was a means of showing their superiority over them and making them submissive to them. This all the Mid East tended to do, when they conquered a foreign army. Strip them and have anal sex with them to punish and abuse and even kill them..

Even seen in our era, as they did this to Gaddafi after his capture, even as he walked back to the jail with his captors.

And so it appears that dirty anal sex was not the sin of Sodom, but the way they treated their neighbors and the way they treated strangers. The Lord said, Love your neighbors and this horrific vile city was killing them when they entered their so called rich and progressive city.

Lets see what the Lord says about Sodom in a direct word for word prophecy in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel
16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister SODOM, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her
and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed
abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

*******

True and righteous are your judgments Lord, as pride, fulness of bread, materialism, wealth, idleness, and treating your neighbors like hell, including killing them is a horrible sin.

Not sure god could technically sin, but yeah his actions are pretty much 'jerk-like' through much of the Old Testament. It's almost like he's a spoiled child with no parental supervision that takes his 'joy' over making the lives of those who don't kiss up to him, miserable. Or dead.
Other than fear, why anyone would want to worship him is beyond me.
That out of the way, I've heard and seen much that shows his actions wasn't due to them being gay, but for doing other, terrible things to other people.
But people who hate gay people need something to hide their hate behind and this example is just as good, if not better, than most other things. listed in the bible (while ignoring other things that say the opposite). It's very telling what type of people hold on to this thinking IMO.
And those people who hold onto that need to explain why they believe that Lot's sons-in-law preferred to have sex with the two strangers in Lot's house instead of with their future wives, or with Lot when he came outside and then mocked them.
:study: :study: :study:

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