Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights support?

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jgh7

Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights support?

Post #1

Post by jgh7 »

I fully support gay equal rights, namely in that I fully support that they should be allowed to marry.

It is based out of my own belief that they can love each other just the same as heterosexuals can, and that I care about their well-being and fair treatment just the same as I care about heterosexuals.

Christians, answer me this: Can God condemn me to Hell solely for this? I am deliberately going against Him and I know it and choose to do it.

My excuse is that I was acting out of love for my fellow man. Is that a good enough excuse?

If it is a good enough excuse, then I feel no guilt, shame, or worry whatsoever in going against God and pursuing that gays be treated equally.

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ttruscott
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Post #21

Post by ttruscott »

We are saved by grace through faith and not by good works.

We are condemned already by rebellion to GOD by faith in HIS being a false god and a liar, not by our evil works.


Impceo...
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Post #22

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 21 by ttruscott]

Just what do you mean by that impceo? I've seen it numerous times in your posts...
I'm going to guess...imperfect conception origion
We are condemned already by rebellion to GOD by faith in HIS being a false god and a liar, not by our evil works.
I am going to make a statement about myself, ted.

I am a fan of Kanye West's music.

Do you believe that statement about myself?
If you say yes, do you have faith that I am telling the truth?
More importantly, if you say you do not believe that statement, does that mean you have 'faith that I am a liar'?
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I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #23

Post by hoghead1 »

[Replying to post 9 by onewithhim]

There is absolutely no evidence that homosexuality goes against nature. Homosexual behaviors are quite common throughout the natural order. They are a way of establishing and maintaining power and dominance. Furthermore, there is no agreed-upon definition as to what is natural as opposed to unnatural. For example, if you wear a deodorant, that can be viewed as unnatural.

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #24

Post by shnarkle »

Talishi wrote:
hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to post 11 by rikuoamero]Also, it would be OK for you to sell your daughter into slavery. Matter of fact, the OT sanctification of slavery was a major rationale Jeff Davis and the Old South gave for their insistence on slavery. In the NT, these OT laws are thrown out the window.
Not so. Paul tells slaves to obey their masters, and he affirms the death penalties specified in the OT.

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Your quote from Paul's letter to the Romans isn't applicable. He is nowhere condoning that anyone carry out the death penalty for the transgressions of these laws as outlined in the Old Testament. Instead he is pointing out that we're all transgressors and guilty before God. Instead he points out that we are "worthy" of death, and then proceeds to show how this is all in relation to the fact that God has basically decided to let them do whatever they please and he'll deal with them on the Day of Judgement. Paul is pointing out the hypocrisy of judging others in that we all sin; we're all guilty so we really aren't fit to judge others.

"24 Wherefore God also GAVE THEM UP to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:"

"26 For this cause God GAVE THEM UP unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:"

"Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, WHOSOEVER THOU ART THAT JUDGEST: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:"

"2: 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?"

In other words, the context is pointing out that no one is perfect; no on is able to keep all the law. Therefore pointing to those sins that others transgress, but that we have no problem keeping is a bit hypocritical and we won't get away with it on Judgement Day. Context is key to understanding what he's actually saying.

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #25

Post by ttruscott »

jgh7 wrote: My excuse is that I was acting out of love for my fellow man. Is that a good enough excuse?
From my PCE pov:
There is only one sin that cannot be forgiven - blasphemy of the holy Spirit. No one who can be forgiven will not be forgiven. Period. Therefore to not be forgiven means that one has blasphemed the holy Spirit.

This blasphemy is to deny YHWH is GOD by putting your faith in the idea that HE is a false god and liar and that all HIS promises of salvation for an imaginary hell are lies which belief puts them outside of HIS loving grace and makes them to be eternally evil.

Since the sins of those who can be saved are just as evil as the sins of those who cannot be saved, that is, both groups sin sins of ultimate disvalue against GOD. ULTIMATE DISVALUE.

Therefore it is not the sins you do on earth but the acceptance or rejection of YHWH that brought us into election or into being condemned already.

Now why are some of the elect as sinful as the demons? Because when GOD called all the elect to come out from among the demons so they could be judged, some of the elect rebelled against GOD, insisting that the judgment was too harsh, too final and not worthy of a GOD of love which in fact made them as evil as the demons. When they were accused of being evil by this decision their protest was, "I did it out of love for my friend who was doomed and how can love be bad?"...precisely why Adam and Eve were not ashamed of being naked, that is, uncovered by righteousness and with their sinfulness all exposed.

This choice to put their friends above the plan of their GOD (idolatry) caused the postponement of the judgement in case the sinful elect were rooted up also until the last sinful elect repents and becomes holy and stands with their GOD's decision that the judgment is an absolute necessity.

The loving acts of one doomed already cannot save him anymore than the evil acts the sinful elect may do can condemn one who is under the promise of salvation.

It is your relationship with YHWH (accepting or rejecting HIS Deity) that matters, not what you do after that decision.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #26

Post by shnarkle »

ttruscott wrote:
jgh7 wrote: My excuse is that I was acting out of love for my fellow man. Is that a good enough excuse?
From my PCE pov:
There is only one sin that cannot be forgiven - blasphemy of the holy Spirit. No one who can be forgiven will not be forgiven. Period. Therefore to not be forgiven means that one has blasphemed the holy Spirit.

This blasphemy is to deny YHWH is GOD by putting your faith in the idea that HE is a false god and liar and that all HIS promises of salvation for an imaginary hell are lies which belief puts them outside of HIS loving grace and makes them to be eternally evil.

Since the sins of those who can be saved are just as evil as the sins of those who cannot be saved, that is, both groups sin sins of ultimate disvalue against GOD. ULTIMATE DISVALUE.

Therefore it is not the sins you do on earth but the acceptance or rejection of YHWH that brought us into election or into being condemned already.

Now why are some of the elect as sinful as the demons? Because when GOD called all the elect to come out from among the demons so they could be judged, some of the elect rebelled against GOD, insisting that the judgment was too harsh, too final and not worthy of a GOD of love which in fact made them as evil as the demons. When they were accused of being evil by this decision their protest was, "I did it out of love for my friend who was doomed and how can love be bad?"...precisely why Adam and Eve were not ashamed of being naked, that is, uncovered by righteousness and with their sinfulness all exposed.

This choice to put their friends above the plan of their GOD (idolatry) caused the postponement of the judgement in case the sinful elect were rooted up also until the last sinful elect repents and becomes holy and stands with their GOD's decision that the judgment is an absolute necessity.

The loving acts of one doomed already cannot save him anymore than the evil acts the sinful elect may do can condemn one who is under the promise of salvation.

It is your relationship with YHWH (accepting or rejecting HIS Deity) that matters, not what you do after that decision.
I might have responded to this already, if that's the case I apologize. I'm not very adept at navigating through here yet. I haven't been online in quite a while and have only a vague recollection of the ideas that you are presenting. I remember they were quite interesting so I thought that I would return the favor and present to you another quite fascinating perspective:

Him God beholding from his prospect high,
Wherein past, present, future, he beholds,
Thus to His only Son foreseeing spake:—
"Only-begotten Son, seest thou what rage
Transports our Adversary? whom no bounds
Prescribed, no bars of Hell, nor all the chains
Heaped on him there, nor yet the main Abyss
Wide interrupt, can hold; so bent he seems
On desperate revenge, that shall redound
Upon his own rebellious head. And now,
Through all restraint broke loose, he wings his way
Not far off Heaven, in the precincts of light,
Directly towards the new-created World,
And Man there placed, with purpose to assay
If him by force he can destroy, or, worse,
By some false guile pervert: and shall pervert;
For Man will hearken to his glozing lies,
And easily transgress the sole command,
Sole pledge of his obedience: so will fall
He and his faithless progeny. Whose fault?
Whose but his own? Ingrate, he had of me
All he could have; I made him just and right,
Sufficient to have stood, though free to fall.
Such I created all the Ethereal Powers
And Spirits, both them who stood and them who failed;
Freely they stood who stood, and fell who fell.
Not free, what proof could they have given sincere
Of true allegiance, constant faith, or love,
Where only what they needs must do appeared,
Not what they would? What praise could they receive,
What pleasure I, from such obedience paid.
When Will and Reason (Reason also is Choice),
Useless and vain, of freedom both despoiled,
Made passive both, had served Necessity,
Not Me? They, therefore, as to right belonged
So were created, nor can justly accuse
Their Maker, or their making, or their fate,
As if Predestination overruled
Their will, disposed by absolute decree
Or high foreknowledge. They themselves decreed
Their own revolt, not I. If I foreknew,
Foreknowledge had no influence on their fault,
Which had no less proved certain unforeknown.
So without least impulse or shadow of fate,
Or aught by me immutably foreseen,
They trespass, authors to themselves in all,
Both what they judge and what they choose; for so
I formed them free, and free they must remain
Till they enthrall themselves: I else must change
Their nature, and revoke the high decree
Unchangeable, eternal, which ordained
Their freedom; they themselves ordained their fall.
The first sort by their own suggestion fell,
Self-tempted, self-depraved; Man falls, deceived
By the other first: Man, therefore, shall find grace;
The other, none. In mercy and justice both,
Through Heaven and Earth, so shall my glory excel;
But mercy, first and last, shall brightest shine."

-Book III from Paradise Lost by John Milton

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #27

Post by MuffMaYne »

[Replying to post 1 by jgh7]

What is marriage? Is it signing papers given to you by the government?

Can I not think marriage is a commitment between God, man, and woman? Saying is not in any way badmouthing gays.

Can God condemn you solely for that? Sure you can. If you had only ever sinned once, God could condemn you for it, in the same way if you had only stolen once and gotten caught.

No one needs an excuse to do the right thing other than its the right thing to do. If you need more than that then maybe its not the right thing to do.

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Post #28

Post by ttruscott »

GOD only condemns to hell those who have chosen to be evil in HIS sight, ie, according to HIS definitions, after rejecting HIS help in curing their evil. All sin is curable except the sin of rejecting HIM as a false god and a liar about saving us from our sin.

They chose to accept hell if HE should prove to be the creator GOD rather than live with HIM in heaven...alas.

The sins of such a person on earth have no bearing on their ending hell; they arrive on earth condemned already, John 3:18.

So the word solely is absolutely misplaced, misused, imCo.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #29

Post by Erexsaur »

[Replying to jgh7]

Hello Jgh7,

Let me give this a try.

We all have the right to our decisions as Adam and Eve were given the right to decide whether to eat the forbidden fruit or not. The choice is what determines life or death.

God has ordained man-to-woman marriage and no other kind. As with the forbidden fruit, a choice of what's Biblically condemned represents a choice to die (the second death). All sin damns!

Any choice of what God forbids is only another product of failure to repent of all sins that God commands us to do that we may be saved from damnation.

As Dr. M. L. King warned us, any law of the land that's not backed by Biblical law is no law at all. So is the law that permits same sex marriage no law at all. Do you remember the lawless segregation "laws?"

May I please finally add that it is our choice whether to believe whether God or man has the final authority? But choice has consequences.

ELD

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #30

Post by wannabe »

[Replying to post 1 by jgh7]

Quote from op : " Christians, answer me this : Can God condemn me to hell solely for this ? I am deliberately going against him and I know it and choose to do it. My excuse is that I was acting out of love for my fellow man. Is that a good enough reason. "




That depends on which particular human right you're referring to.
The right to love is universal. However certain unnatural acts may be deemed as sinful. And marriage should be a sexual haven. ( kind of exclusive, you know, no cheating )

'Because if one was a K. K. K. their ' fellow man ' might just be another murderer. Even though you aren't.'
Ask yourself what is marriage. You don't have to dig very far to know that it is about all the shared sacreds' . Certainly not to be taken lightly as do many today.

If your comfortable with your decision regarding gay rights . Feel good!

The God I believe in can condemn , 0 , 1 , or all to hell as he desires.
:
:



Live to give , Give to live ( love Jesus )

: I believe a mans spirit is more than just his imagination.

I believe in forever. That's true even without religion.(or man)

: Live to give, give to life, Forgive to live.

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