Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights support?

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jgh7

Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights support?

Post #1

Post by jgh7 »

I fully support gay equal rights, namely in that I fully support that they should be allowed to marry.

It is based out of my own belief that they can love each other just the same as heterosexuals can, and that I care about their well-being and fair treatment just the same as I care about heterosexuals.

Christians, answer me this: Can God condemn me to Hell solely for this? I am deliberately going against Him and I know it and choose to do it.

My excuse is that I was acting out of love for my fellow man. Is that a good enough excuse?

If it is a good enough excuse, then I feel no guilt, shame, or worry whatsoever in going against God and pursuing that gays be treated equally.

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ttruscott
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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #31

Post by ttruscott »

jgh7 wrote:Christians, answer me this: Can God condemn me to Hell solely for this?
There are two kinds of sinner on earth, the sinful elect and the non-elect sinful. The sinul elect will be saved from any and all sin they might choose to do because they chose to be under HIS promise of salvation. The non-elect sinners will not be saved from any sin because they rejected HIS promises of election and salvation as the lies of a false god.

No one is condemned for their sins on earth as any sin on earth is forgivable except sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is, claiming YHWH is a false liar etc which the non-elect chose to do.

IOW,
The sins of the elect are as grievous in HIS eyes as the sins of the non-elect. Period. Both are worthy of damnation BUT the relationship the elect chose to have with YHWH saves them (being under HIS promise) while the relationship the demonic non-elect chose to have with HIM (rejecting HIM as a false god and a liar) condemned them instantly.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #32

Post by ttruscott »

shnarkle wrote: They, therefore, as to right belonged
So were created, nor can justly accuse
Their Maker, or their making, or their fate,
As if Predestination overruled
Their will, disposed by absolute decree
Or high foreknowledge.
They themselves decreed
Their own revolt, not I.
I agree - I too champion free will.
If I foreknew,
Foreknowledge had no influence on their fault,
Which had no less proved certain unforeknown.
The only case I make against HIS being omniscient in the pagan Greek manner is that IF HE knew before their creation who would end in hell BUT CREATED THEM ANYWAY, HE cannot be the GOD who is LOVE, ie, he can't be YHWH.
...for so
I formed them free, and free they must remain
Till they enthrall themselves: I else must change
Their nature, and revoke the high decree
Unchangeable, eternal, which ordained
Their freedom;
I agree. Our free will decision must be sacrosanct or it is no free will at all.
they themselves ordained their fall.
The first sort by their own suggestion fell,
Self-tempted, self-depraved; Man falls, deceived
By the other first: Man, therefore, shall find grace;
The other, none.
Yes every sinner chose that which made us sinners but by a free will, not by deception. All were self tempted and all sinners fell by choice: James 1:14 But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. 15 Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death.

The interpretation of the story that Satan was allowed to deceive Eve is a great smear on the church's understanding of the GOD who is LOVE! IF she was innocent and there is no indication that GOD warned her not to engage with him (which is against HIS law anyway) nor set up any guardian fences to keep her safe from Satan as HE did around the garden after she chose to eat, then how can it be said that HE loved HER? How can it be said HE respected her innocence and thought it worthy of preservation? The thousands of books trying to answer these question are all sophistry, full of theo-babble because these questions expose the lie of this interpretation but our parents theology must not be denied.

GOD did not need evil for any reason and HE did not need HIS Bride (the sinful elect ) sinful, corrupt and disgusting for any reason. This interpretation flies in the face of HIS loving and righteous holiness with talons extended!
In mercy and justice both,
Through Heaven and Earth, so shall my glory excel;
But mercy, first and last, shall brightest shine."
-Book III from Paradise Lost by John Milton
Again I agree.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights support?

Post #33

Post by nobspeople »

jgh7 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:55 pm I fully support gay equal rights, namely in that I fully support that they should be allowed to marry.

It is based out of my own belief that they can love each other just the same as heterosexuals can, and that I care about their well-being and fair treatment just the same as I care about heterosexuals.

Christians, answer me this: Can God condemn me to Hell solely for this? I am deliberately going against Him and I know it and choose to do it.

My excuse is that I was acting out of love for my fellow man. Is that a good enough excuse?

If it is a good enough excuse, then I feel no guilt, shame, or worry whatsoever in going against God and pursuing that gays be treated equally.
The god of the Old Testament wasn't particularly nice - at least not as nice as the New Testament god seemed to be. So it shouldn't surprise anyone to see someone following the Old Testament rules as saying YES to your question.
As I've said before, I'm old enough to remember people of my grandparents' age condemning inter-racial marriage but now, that's pretty much died with them (save for a few small groups floating around).
So it seems as society changes, so does 'God's rules' - at least how they're interpreted by people.

Personally, it make no sense to me to think God wants people to believe "God says gays can't get in to heaven unless they repent and stop the gay sex so let's make their everyday lives as miserable as possible! Yeah! That'll teach 'em!"
That, to me, is a 100% disgustingly man made concept.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights supp

Post #34

Post by The Kangaroo »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #6]

Davis was an elected official. the next election, the voters fired her.

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights support?

Post #35

Post by The Kangaroo »

[Replying to jgh7 in post #31]

No God worthy of the title would, but that doesn't mean the Bible thumpers won't tell you it will. I once got an e-mail from Mark Creech, who is like North Carolina's Jerry Falwell minus the charm and he threatened me with it for disagreeing with him. I laughed my tuchis off.

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights support?

Post #36

Post by emilynghiem »

What causes condemnation or hell of any sort, made by man or collectively by God, is unforgiveness.

Only we as individuals can choose to ask help with forgiveness, especially where we cannot do this ourselves and fail without extra help.

This one act of asking, this one act of charity
is enough to change the dynamic and trajectory of destruction and endless suffering by unforgiveness.

The Bible clearly explains, as we forgive others, God forgives us. If we refuse to forgive, we are refuses forgiveness likewise. It is a natural law of equal justice God created and made manifest in Christ Jesus.

When we accept to live with Jesus or Justice in our hearts, this double edged sword can either kill loving relations with hatred and unforgiving Retributive Justice, that collectively becomes manifested as Antichrist, or can kill hatred with kindness and cast out fear with love through Restorative Justice, which Christ Jesus represents universal authority, to restore Justice and Peace on earth as Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Uniting and liberating all humanity by agreement on God's truth and will in the Kingdom of God.

Every day we choose the path of love and forgiveness that leads to peace and life renewed, restoring good faith relations.

Or we choose the broad path of destruction by unforgiveness which allows hate and anger to kill our relations both with neighbors and with God.

We know what God wants for his children.

But if we are not ready to love one another as children of God, it is easier to imagine God wants to judge and punish, and send people to hell. So we can join in that instead. It makes us feel more secure in knowing there is justice in the world, as long as the narrative protects us.

Only when we realize we have as much to lose as to gain, then we take the Restorative Justice path so we can ask for grace and corrections to the same extent we pray others to receive. When we realize we are all in the same boat, we work together to stop self destruction and sabotaging relationships to sink our own ship.

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Re: Can God condemn to Hell based solely off gay rights support?

Post #37

Post by brunumb »

emilynghiem wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:28 pm When we realize we are all in the same boat, we work together to stop self destruction and sabotaging relationships to sink our own ship.
We can also leave God/Jesus out of the equation and live our lives demonstrating empathy and understanding while caring for the well-being of all our fellow human beings.
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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