What is wrong with sex before marriage?

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agnosticatheist
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What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #1

Post by agnosticatheist »

Christians, you contend we are not supposed to have sex before we are MARRIED.

What is wrong with a couple who have been together for a long time having sex before they get married?

If you buy a car, or a house, dont you want to check it out before you buy it?

What if you are moving towards getting married? Dont you want to know what the person you will spend the rest of your life with looks like naked? And there's practical issues too. I dont want to get too graphic here, but the tightness of the female v***** varies from individual to individual, and the thickness of the male p**** varies from individual to individual. Dont you want to make sure your organs are compatible and not mismatched? Dont you want to know what your partner smells and tastes like? Dont you want to know if the female is or isnt allergic to your semen? Dont you want to know if your partner is frigid and non expressive or vibrant and expressive? Dont you want to know if your partner is down for trying a lot or is not open to much more than missionary?

Oh but no, you and God tell us we are supposed to basically do a blind buy with respect to one of the most important aspects of a normal marriage.

Yeah, sorry, but im going with reason here.
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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #21

Post by JehovahsWitness »

koko wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:43 pm The ancient Old Testament patriarchs all had concubines and mistresses. There were no ceremonials before they engaged in sex.
The ancient patriarchs lived before God expressed his standards through the Mosaic law. It is noteworthy that none of the men that enjoyed God's blessing and approval are presented as fathering children with anyone but their wives (although the tradition at the time allowed for a man to have more than one wife).

Interestingly Noah and his sons are all spoken of as having just one wife, Joseph understood the sanctity of the marriage bond and Abraham and Jacob both accepted concubines (secondary wives) under duress.

Under the patriarcal system of the Hebrews, having sex with a woman before making her your wife was considered degrading for her . While Judah dis have sex with someone he believed to be a prostitute, there is no indication prostitution was approved by God or his action considered honorable. Further, the context indicates that Judah probably thought the woman a Canannite, a people for whom prostitution was probably not at all unusual or frowned upon. While his own double standards might be considered deplorable, there is little doubt Judah would not have accepted his own daughter venture into such a profession (Compare Genesis 34:7).

Since marriage obviously existed at the time, there was obviously a "ceremony" of some kind that signaled to the community that a woman' s status had changed from being single to being considered a married woman.

Sleeping with another man's wife was probably a fast way to get yourself killed.



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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #22

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:31 am
koko wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:43 pm The ancient Old Testament patriarchs all had concubines and mistresses. There were no ceremonials before they engaged in sex.
The ancient patriarchs lived before God expressed his standards through the Mosaic law. It is noteworthy that none of the men that enjoyed God's blessing and approval are presented as fathering children with anyone but their wives (although the tradition at the time allowed for a man to have more than one wife).

Interestingly Noah and his sons are all spoken of as having just one wife, Joseph understood the sanctity of the marriage bond and Abraham and Jacob both accepted concubines (secondary wives) under duress.
What kind of duress was it that prompted Abraham and Jacob to each take on a concubine? And, in as much as men never married concubines isn't the term "secondary wives" highly misleading?



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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #23

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:55 pmAnd, in as much as men never married concubines isn't the term "secondary wives" highly misleading?



.

No. Under the Hebrew patriarcal system concubines were indeed given in marriage as wives, benefiting from all the privileges and protection this would afford. For more on this please see my earlier post on this question ...
What was the marital status of Hebrew concubines?
viewtopic.php?p=404640#p404640




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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #24

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:14 pm
Miles wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:55 pmAnd, in as much as men never married concubines isn't the term "secondary wives" highly misleading?



.

No. Under the Hebrew patriarcal system concubines were indeed given in marriage as wives, benefiting from all the privileges and protection this would afford.
Under the contemporary meaning of the word, which is what English language Bibles use in expressing notions and ideas, both past and present, such a woman would not fall under the definition of "concubine ."

concubine
concubine noun

con·​cu·​bine | \ ˈkäŋ-kyu̇-ˌbīn
, ˈkän-, -kyü- \

: a woman with whom a man cohabits without being married: such as
a : one having a recognized social status in a household below that of a wife

b: mistress sense 4a
Source: Merriam-Webster

________________________

concubine
[ kong-kyuh-bahyn, kon- ]

noun
a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, especially one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress.
Source: Dictionary.com

________________________

concubine

The word concubine comes from the Latin verb, cubare, which means "to lie down." The word developed in Middle English in the 13th Century, and is another name for a woman taken as a mistress. The practice was common throughout history: the Bible includes many references to concubines, and in ancient China, a ruler might have had thousands of concubines, some treated well, some like prostitutes. Sad to say, the practice is still going on, acceptable in some countries today.

Throughout history, there have been instances when it was considered acceptable for an important man to keep a woman, not his wife, as a mistress. These women were called concubines, and they often were treated better than the man’s wife.


Definitions of concubine
1a woman who cohabits with an important man

Synonyms:
courtesan, doxy, paramour

Types:
odalisque
a woman slave in a harem

Type of:
fancy woman, kept woman, mistress
an adulterous woman; a woman who has an ongoing extramarital sexual relationship with a man
Source: Vocabulary.com

________________________

concubine

noun [ C ]
us
/ˈkɑːn.kjə.baɪn/ uk
/ˈkɒŋ.kjə.baɪn/
a woman who, in some societies, lives and has sex with a man she is not married to, and has a lower social rank than his wife or wives
Source: Cambridge Dictionary

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concubine
(kɒŋkyʊbaɪn )
Word forms: concubines
countable noun
In former times, a concubine was a woman who had a sexual relationship with a man of higher social rank without being married to him.
Source: Collins Dictionary

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concubine
Noun
/ˈkɑŋkjəbaɪn/

concubine (plural concubines)

A sexual partner, especially a woman, to whom one is not or cannot be married.
A woman who lives with a man, but who is not a wife.

(chiefly historical) A slave-girl or woman, kept for instance in a harem, who is held for sexual service.
Source: Wiktionary
________________________

concubine noun

/ˈkɒŋkjubaɪn/

​(especially in some societies in the past) a woman who lives with a man, often in addition to his wife or wives, but who is less important than they are.

The sultan’s wives and concubines lived in the harem.
Source: Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary

________________________

concubine
​noun countable
US

/ˈkɑŋkjəˌbaɪn/
Word Forms
DEFINITIONS1

1
a woman in the past who had a sexual relationship with an important man but was not married to him
Source: Macmillian Distionary



And even the Bible recognizes the distinction; that concubines are not wives:

2 Samuel 5:13 (NWT)
13 David took more concubines and wives in Jerusalem after he came from Hebʹron, and more sons and daughters were born to David.

2 Samuel 19:5 (NWT)
5 Then Joʹab went in to the king at the house and said: “Today you have put to shame all your servants who this day saved your life* and the lives* of your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your concubines.

1 Kings 11:3 (NWT)
3 And he had 700 wives who were princesses and 300 concubines, and his wives gradually inclined his heart.


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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #25

Post by nobspeople »

agnosticatheist wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:21 pm Christians, you contend we are not supposed to have sex before we are MARRIED.

What is wrong with a couple who have been together for a long time having sex before they get married?

If you buy a car, or a house, dont you want to check it out before you buy it?

What if you are moving towards getting married? Dont you want to know what the person you will spend the rest of your life with looks like naked? And there's practical issues too. I dont want to get too graphic here, but the tightness of the female v***** varies from individual to individual, and the thickness of the male p**** varies from individual to individual. Dont you want to make sure your organs are compatible and not mismatched? Dont you want to know what your partner smells and tastes like? Dont you want to know if the female is or isnt allergic to your semen? Dont you want to know if your partner is frigid and non expressive or vibrant and expressive? Dont you want to know if your partner is down for trying a lot or is not open to much more than missionary?

Oh but no, you and God tell us we are supposed to basically do a blind buy with respect to one of the most important aspects of a normal marriage.

Yeah, sorry, but im going with reason here.
I was told one because it was marriage, it needs to basically be sanctified by God before sex should happen. Which is fine if you're a Christian I suppose (though I know of many Christians that didn't adhere to that rule).
I suppose a lot has to do with how you see sex as an individual (aka sex or love making).
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #26

Post by AgnosticBoy »

[Replying to agnosticatheist in post #1]

I'm not aware of any proven reason for premarital sex being wrong. However, I also don't see any proven reason as to why restricting sex to marriage is wrong. I can think of benefits to both scenarios, and I don't know of any negatives that aren't manageable. Although, I highly doubt restricting sex to marriage could be followed nowadays given the massive exposure that we have to sex.
Last edited by AgnosticBoy on Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #27

Post by JehovahsWitness »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:08 am
Although, I highly doubt restricting sex to marriage could be followed nowadays given the massive exposure that we have to sex.
Interesting; are you saying you do not believe there is anybody on earth today that has restricted their sexual activity to within the marriage bonds?
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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #28

Post by AgnosticBoy »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:16 am
AgnosticBoy wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:08 am
Although, I highly doubt restricting sex to marriage could be followed nowadays given the massive exposure that we have to sex.
Interesting; are you suggesting that there is nobody on earth today that has restricted their sexual activity to within the marriage bonds?
I will say that it's possible since I've heard of some that have done it, but I would think that those who do it are part of a very small minority.

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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #29

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to agnosticatheist in post #1]

Well, if you base marriage on that, you are doomed anyway.
There is so much that is far more important between two people. The physical side probably doesn't last that long. It is how you grow together in the bond of love and respect that counts. Not performing or expecting performance.
The Bible's advice is never wrong, though perhaps we do not like to hear it sometimes.

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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #30

Post by Tcg »

Rose2020 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 5:21 am
The Bible's advice is never wrong, though perhaps we do not like to hear it sometimes.
The Bible's advice is drastically outdated and other than in rare places is of little use in modern human life.


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