What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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agnosticatheist
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What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #1

Post by agnosticatheist »

Christians, you contend we are not supposed to have sex before we are MARRIED.

What is wrong with a couple who have been together for a long time having sex before they get married?

If you buy a car, or a house, dont you want to check it out before you buy it?

What if you are moving towards getting married? Dont you want to know what the person you will spend the rest of your life with looks like naked? And there's practical issues too. I dont want to get too graphic here, but the tightness of the female v***** varies from individual to individual, and the thickness of the male p**** varies from individual to individual. Dont you want to make sure your organs are compatible and not mismatched? Dont you want to know what your partner smells and tastes like? Dont you want to know if the female is or isnt allergic to your semen? Dont you want to know if your partner is frigid and non expressive or vibrant and expressive? Dont you want to know if your partner is down for trying a lot or is not open to much more than missionary?

Oh but no, you and God tell us we are supposed to basically do a blind buy with respect to one of the most important aspects of a normal marriage.

Yeah, sorry, but im going with reason here.
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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #2

Post by ttruscott »

[Replying to post 1 by agnosticatheist]

Marriage is the ideal form of loving and holy communion/fellowship with another and the goal of our creation is our marriage with GOD. The symbol of the unity of the marriage union on earth ( the symbol for our unity with GOD) is sex. Sex outside of marriage is then idolatry, putting someone else in place of your spouse, your GOD, or in other words, seeking after false gods.

That is is the symbolism set up by YHWH for our lives on earth.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #3

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by agnosticatheist]

For a bible believing Christian, sex before marriage violates a fundamental Christian law that restricts sexual activity to married couples. So for me, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses sex before marriage is wrong because having sex outside of marriage would make me break one of God's laws.

No couple living together without being legally married can become one of Jehovah's Witnesses.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


Further reading
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989268
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
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Post #4

Post by agnosticatheist »

So basically ttruscott and jwitness, because God says you shouldnt have sex before you are married, you are going to blind buy on one of the most important aspects of a marriage? You are going to go into it with almost no idea what you are getting into?
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Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

agnosticatheist wrote: So basically ttruscott and jwitness, because God says you shouldnt have sex before you are married, you are going to blind buy on one of the most important aspects of a marriage? You are going to go into it with almost no idea what you are getting into?
Blind Buying

To suggest that testing out each others genitals is the best way to ensure marital success is naive to an extreme. There are so many factors that contribute to a successful marriage, emotional intellectual compatility, being mature giving people, good forgivers with a common view of important issues such as childrearing, money management, health issues, religion etc etc.

On a logical basis, if the "test driving" each other sexually were the key to marital success we would logically have an increase in the stability of marriage since the sexual revolution of the 60's reaching a height in the 21st century when few people marry as virgins. The REALITY however is the divorce rate continues to rise. So the fact that people have had intercourse before marriage and decided they are sexually compatible has NOT lead to better marriages.

Male and female genitilia are compatible by design, if two people are caring, flexible and selfless and willing to apply bible principles when it comes to satisfying their partner, then their sex life will probably be satisfactory in the least and fulfilling at best. No couple has a perfect sex life no matter how much they test drive before.

In any case to believe that sex alone is the deciding factor between two people that know and love each other is both reducing the act to its lowest common denominator and exaggerating its import.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
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Post #6

Post by agnosticatheist »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
agnosticatheist wrote: So basically ttruscott and jwitness, because God says you shouldnt have sex before you are married, you are going to blind buy on one of the most important aspects of a marriage? You are going to go into it with almost no idea what you are getting into?
Blind Buying

To suggest that testing out each others genitals is the best way to ensure marital success is naive to an extreme. There are so many factors that contribute to a successful marriage, emotional intellectual compatility, being mature giving people, good forgivers with a common view of important issues such as childrearing, money management, health issues, religion etc etc.

On a logical basis, if the "test driving" each other sexually were the key to marital success we would logically have an increase in the stability of marriage since the sexual revolution of the 60's reaching a height in the 21st century when few people marry as virgins. The REALITY however is the divorce rate continues to rise. So the fact that people have had intercourse before marriage and decided they are sexually compatible has NOT lead to better marriages.

Male and female genitilia are compatible by design, if two people are caring, flexible and selfless and willing to apply bible principles when it comes to satisfying their partner, then their sex life will probably be satisfactory in the least and fulfilling at best. No couple has a perfect sex life no matter how much they test drive before.

In any case to believe that sex alone is the deciding factor between two people that know and love each other is both reducing the act to its lowest common denominator and exaggerating its import.
I never said it was the sole factor.

Sure, no one is going to have a perfect sex life. But, i personally would like for my sex life to be as good as possible.

So, again, when it comes to one of the most important aspects of a marriage, im supposed to blind buy?

Why is it ok, and even encouraged, to get to know the person you are going to marry, and find out as much as you can before gou decide to marry them, and yet for some reason, its not ok to find out about each other's bodies and each other's sexuality? If im going to blind buy on the sex aspect of my marriage, I might as well blind buy on everything else, right? Why not just go find a random person off the street and ask them to marry me? But see, few christians would approve of that. They go on and on about finding the right person and not settling. So then why do they stop at sexuality and go into the marriage with little knowledge of their partner's body and sexuality? Because God says so...

Again, there are legitimate biological issues to consider that i think you either didnt notice, failed to address, ignored, or tried to minimize. What if the female is allergic to the male's semen and no medical solution can be reached? What are you going to do then, einstein? I personally would break off the engagement if I had sex with my fiance and found out they were allergic to my semen and there was no medical solution.

You say people's genitals are compatible, and while that is generally true, there is genetic variation (and perhaps genetic mutations as well) that cause there to be a wide variety of genital configurations.

Some males have very thick penises and some females have very tight vaginas. A male with a very thick penis and a female with a very tight vagina getting married could lead to discomfort and definitely not optimal sexual intercourse. If you dont find this out before you get married, now you are both stuck with it for the rest of your lives unless you agree to go outside of the marriage or a get a divorce, neither of which is a good outcome to me personally.

I could go on and on here.

Theres the taste and smell of each other's bodies.

Theres willingness to try stuff and grow and learn.

You said: "if two people are caring, flexible and selfless and willing to apply bible principles when it comes to satisfying their partner, then their sex life will probably be satisfactory in the least and fulfilling at best."

Come on. Please tell me you are smarter than this. You are so determined to maintain your God belief and not grapple with the fact that either your God gives really bad advice, or your God does not exist and your God's supposed advice actually is human-inspired and written by humans. What if one or both partners are NOT caring, flexible and selfless and willing to apply bible principles when it comes to satisfying their partner? Are they supposed to just deal with it for thr rest of their lives? If they had found that out before the marriage, they could have simply gone seperate ways, or if they were engaged, broke the engagement off. You also have to take into account that there probably are people who know good and well they arent going to be satisfactory sexual partners, but they want to get married for companionship and/or the financial benefits. Not test driving before you get married is an advantage for such people and allows them to sneak into a marriage and get what they want without their lacking sexual value being detected.

Some people want sex 4 nights a week, some people want sex once a week. If you have someone who wants to have sex 4 times a week and someone who wants to have sex once a week get married, that isnt going to be an optimal situation. The one who wants 4 times a week is always going to be left wanting more, and the person who wants once a week is always going to feel pressured to do more than once a week. You might say: "well, thats part of growing and sacrificing and you are never going to have a perfect sex life anyways". Sorry, but bump that. I want to have an optimal sex life. If I cant find the right person, then just like its acceptable to do for any reason BUT sex, im not going to settle and I simply wont get married.
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Post #7

Post by OnceConvinced »

[Replying to post 6 by agnosticatheist]

So many great points made here. I can speak as a Christian who married a Christian woman, believing that sex was meant to be within the confines of marriage because "God said so."

I'll admit, we did give into our natural urges and we did have sex a few times before we were married, but we were engaged to be married. But we generally didn't have the opportunity so we really didn't get to know each other sexually until after marriage. And then we found that we were incompatible and sex was never fulfilling at least not for me.

I can definitely identify with the point you make here about some wanting sex regularly and others not so regularly. My wife would grumble and groan if she didn't get it every couple of days. For me, I was happy for once a week. Most of the time I just wanted to go to sleep. So she was often disappointed because I didn't want to and I was frustrated because I had to give it to her so often even when I wasn't in the mood!

Unfortunately her high sex drive meant that she was never going to be loyal to me.

If only I'd found out that before I married her.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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Re: What is wrong with sex before marriage?

Post #8

Post by Youkilledkenny »

[Replying to post 1 by agnosticatheist]

There's more to a relationship than sex, no matter how important it may be to the relationship itself. That being said, Christians like rules and LOVE to dictate their rules to others no matter the others' beliefs. So they enjoy telling others who wrong they are while ignoring their own lives.
I knew a seminary student whose girlfriend would go to the local store and by underwear for him so when he came home on breaks, she would have nice undies for him when they have sex.
Beyond the hypocrisy of these people, it's about controlling others veiled in 'love'. In other words, they like to control others hiding behind 'love' and 'concern' for their own sick pleasures
From my experience, speaking on the ones I know, of course.
To those who are concerned about it:
What's wrong with it? Only YOU can decide this and only YOU have to answer to/for it. Ignore what "others" say and make your own decision.

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Post #9

Post by Strider324 »

The tragic problem with this entire POV is that it makes sexual compatibility somehow 'different' than other aspects of a relationship.

Most relationship experts will tell you that the best relationships are those in which the 4 pillars are in balance. We fare best when we develop balance in being intellectually, spiritually, emotionally, and sexually compatible. These 4 pillars are EQUAL in value, and interdependent.

So why does religion single out only one of them? I'm not sure if the goal is to promote sexuality as superior or inferior to the other pillars. Either way, it says that sexuality is 'special' in a relationship. It is not. Certainly no more or less special than being compatible in all the other ways.

Do we hear religion telling couples not to have intellectual conversations prior to marriage? Not to find a spiritual bond before marriage? Of course not.

The distinction given to sexuality is purely the result of our misogynistic past whereby women were treated as chattel - their forced virginity giving them more 'value' on the market. It's a reprehensible ethic that continues today, most starkly in Islamic peoples that still practice female genital mutilation on 11 year old girls, for no other reason than to assure the 'value' of the sexual product.
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Post #10

Post by agnosticatheist »

Strider324 wrote: The tragic problem with this entire POV is that it makes sexual compatibility somehow 'different' than other aspects of a relationship.

Most relationship experts will tell you that the best relationships are those in which the 4 pillars are in balance. We fare best when we develop balance in being intellectually, spiritually, emotionally, and sexually compatible. These 4 pillars are EQUAL in value, and interdependent.

So why does religion single out only one of them? I'm not sure if the goal is to promote sexuality as superior or inferior to the other pillars. Either way, it says that sexuality is 'special' in a relationship. It is not. Certainly no more or less special than being compatible in all the other ways.

Do we hear religion telling couples not to have intellectual conversations prior to marriage? Not to find a spiritual bond before marriage? Of course not.

The distinction given to sexuality is purely the result of our misogynistic past whereby women were treated as chattel - their forced virginity giving them more 'value' on the market. It's a reprehensible ethic that continues today, most starkly in Islamic peoples that still practice female genital mutilation on 11 year old girls, for no other reason than to assure the 'value' of the sexual product.
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If it turns out there are one or more gods, then so be it.

If it turns out there are no gods, then thank reality that no one is going to suffer forever.

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