What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Checkpoint
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What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

It seems to me it is seldom if ever specifically defined in scripture, although the term is used more than a few times.

Does it, for example, include polygamy?

How about sex before marriage?

Or homosexuality?

Adultery is a sin, but is it also fornication?

Yahu
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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #21

Post by Yahu »

YahDough wrote: The enemy is the flesh, our own fleshly desires that war against the Spirit of God.. You are lashing out at people who tell you the truth .
You are trying to push the highest standards applied to the high priesthood upon all to even enter the kingdom and you are serving the enemy in doing so.


Are you blaming me for what you du? Do you think my judgement is worse than God's condemnation? Salvation requires high standards. The enemy is the flesh,
Your ignorance is astounding. What I do is actually follow Yah's law as best I can.

Salvation is a free gift. It is the sanctification process that requires work on our part. Sometimes that is referred to as 'salvation of the soul'. It is a process of becoming more christlike. It doesn't effect entrance into the kingdom but it does effect your level of glorification, rewards and positions within that kingdom.
That will get you a 'Woe unto you'. You are cursing your own life by trying to be a meddlesome busybody in the matter of other men's lives. That ranks right up there with the sins of murderer, thief and evil-doer.
Those who warn you are trying to do you a favor.
Nonsense. Attempting to usurp false authority over someone not under your authority is a form of witchcraft. You are trying to manipulate and control other people using fear tactics of 'loss of salvation' or to tell people they are not really saved. That is serving the pit of hell. I suggest you worry about the beam in your own eye.

I have seen your types of tactics often. It reeks of the tactics of covens I have pulled down. Do you also spread slander and gossip against those that don't measure up to your expanded standards? I wouldn't doubt it. Obviously you attempt to use bribery to suggest people can buy their way into salvation by being good by your standards. Blackmail is also a tactic common to modern day Pharisees. All these tactics are the traits and tactics of a Jezebel to manipulate and control others. These are doctrines right out of the 'arrogant virgin' aspect of the young Ashtoreth.

I follow Yah's law. You want to be seen as some super self-righteous pharisee praying on the street corner so other pharisees will put you on a pedestal unless your just in bondage to demonic doctrines designed to drive people away from Yah by attacking those that don't measure up to religious traditions of man.

Either way, your in deception by believing you are 'helping' others.
You have given me many Bible scriptures for someone who does not profess to be a Christian although you appear to have been brought uo in a Christian home. Let me leave a scripture for you.

Rom:1:24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Are you actually reading my posts? I am a celibate Christian and have been a Christian for over 45 years. I have attended bible college. I even took Hebrew to better understand the Old Testament in my studies. I have held the office of prophet since I was 20 years old. I do battle with paganism and witchcraft as my primary calling but I also stand against the doctrines of Baal and Ashtoreth rooted in the churches.

I will give you the prophetic word I gave to a Presbyterian pastor's daughter I was in a similar conflict against. I had chewed her out for following pagan doctrines in attacking and spreading gossip against those she thought didn't measure up to her standards of religiosity. She was in tears when the Spirit fell upon me to give her this Word.
The Father wrote: My precious daughter,
See them as I see them.
See them filtered through the blood.
See them for the Glory they can achieve.
Weep! Weep for my lost children.
Weep as I weep for them.
I didn't call you to be an accuser of your brethren.
I called you to love one another and draw them to Me by that love.
As a result, one of the girls she had been spreading gossip about got saved. She left her own father's church to attend a charismatic church where she got the baptism of the spirit then helped bring her parents out of demonic doctrines. They also then got the baptism of the spirit, brought revival to their church and then the entire congregation was cast out of the Presbyterian denomination. And that is just a small amount of the consequences of that single prophetic word and a one time encounter with me. That Presbyterian pastor's daughter was attacking me for the rape counseling I had given to a Church of God Pastor's daughter.

You are just another 'accuser of your brethren' telling people they aren't saved because of the beam in your own eye from your religious bondage. You are in deception when thinking you are helping others by trying to drive them away from the love of Yah by putting too heavy a yoke upon them.

The role of a prophet is first to pull down and destroy then to build and to plant. You have to root out and destroy the false doctrines before you can plant the correct doctrines.

Jer 1:10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

And that is exactly what I do when I run up against modern day Phariseeism spreading doctrines right out of Baal and Ashtoreth worship. Most people only know about the rampant sexuality side of that worship. Trying to limit lawful sexual activity to get people to reject Yah is another side of their teachings to drive people to the dark side so to speak.

It is also the error of the Church of Ephesus in Rev 2. They are religious but have 'lost their first love'. They attack others that don't measure up to their religiosity and if they don't overcome that ERROR, they loose access to the 'tree of life'. You have to earn the right to eat of the tree.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

You also have to earn the right to enter into the gates. Salvation only gets you into the kingdom, not into the capitol city or a mansion on the heights. If you want to limit yourself to a ghetto apartment on the outer wall for attacking other believers in your deception, that is your right. In that case, you have my pity because I will stand far above you in that kingdom. I have overcome and defeated a high priestess of Ashtoreth. I teach on the ways of Jezebel and KNOW my level of reward.

Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.

You are so concerned with physical fornication, you forget out spiritual fornication trying to satisfy your lust for power over others with the tactics of Jezebel herself.

Yahu
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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #22

Post by Yahu »

Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 16 by Yahu]
The error of Phariseeism is to take what is sin in the law and put a fence around it to include anything even remotely close and calling it sin for anyone that violates their added expansion of the law. Then they attack anyone that doesn't bow to their added traditions of man. That is what got Yeshua crucified for following Yah's law not man's expansions to the law.
Exactly. The self-appinted keepers of the gate are too often shutting the gate and making it a stumbling block and worse. It is as Peter said in Acts 15:10:

Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

Thanks for your posts on this thread. They have been enlightening and helpful.
I am glad that someone actually gets my point. Christianity is far to focused on other people's sex lives without knowing what constitutes sin.

They focus of the physical side but forget there are sins of the body, sins of the soul and sins of the pride of life.

So there is fornication and adultery of the body, soul and spirit. We know that Yah equates following the ways of other pagan gods as 'spiritual adultery' yet many people don't even know or understand what those pagan doctrines involve.

A common enemy tactic is to take the position of Yah and split it to take extreme views on either side of the correct position and have either end attack anyone not on their extreme. The enemy uses religion to force extreme limitations on any sexual activity without the sanction of the church while the other extreme is 'any sex is good sex'. Of course both extremes attack the correct middle position of Yah which is 'be responsible in your sexual activity and don't hurt anyone with it'. It is one of the most successful demonic tactics.

I guess the hyper religious are just jealous and attack anyone not in their extreme bondage and think they are earning their way into heaven by fasting with sex.

For example how many pharisees would do the right thing in the following case? A young single couple gets involved sexually where a girl gives up her virginity. How many Pharisees would try to stop that relationship? Most IMO while the correct course would be to encourage them into a more formal relationship of marriage thus limiting the girl to only a single partner. How many 'church people' would drive them apart and sabotage that relationship and claim they are saving them from sin? The ones that will stand in judgment will be those that separate what Yah has joined together.

They will be the ones saying 'Lord, Lord but look at our works of helping stop others from sin' while He says 'I never knew you. You are following the ways of my enemies. You serve a different god.' Their works will be judged wood, hay or stubble and will burn in the testing. They will actually loose rewards for their actions.
Last edited by Yahu on Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #23

Post by YahDough »

[Replying to post 21 by Yahu]


I'm glad you have made it more clear who you are and where you stand. . I judged you as an enemy of the gospel pf Christ and righteousness.. You have judged me even worse. I belong to Jesus.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #24

Post by Yahu »

YahDough wrote: [Replying to post 21 by Yahu]

I'm glad you have made it more clear who you are and where you stand. . I judged you as an enemy of the gospel pf Christ and righteousness.. You have judged me even worse. I belong to Jesus.
Thank You. Then I count myself blessed. Prophets are generally rejected anyway if not even killed for their messages. By your judgement of me being an 'enemy of the gospel' just gets me greater rewards in the kingdom of Yah.

I have nothing against righteousness. I disagree with your definition of righteous. I despise the self-righteousness of modern day Phariseeism.

I teach a gospel of salvation by grace through faith, not one of earning salvation by works of religion or celibacy or following traditions of man. Salvation is a gift that can NOT be earned! I do NOT teach to sin that grace may abound. Grace is not a license to sin. All sin has consequences both in this life and in the eternal kingdom. It effects your spiritual maturity level which in turn effects your level of glorification within the kingdom NOT your entrance into the kingdom. There will be those in the kingdom in robes of righteousness and others in filthy rags.

I teach the difference between salvation, sanctification and glorification. Many confuse sanctification with salvation. I understand that there will be the least in the kingdom that are far below the greatest in the kingdom in terms of rewards and personal glory achieved. There will be those that crawl into the kingdom in their spiritual diapers by using grace as an excuse to live in abominations. I also know that not far above them in glory are what I like to call the 'baby slapping' Christians that beat down anyone that doesn't conform to their level of religious bondage and claim to be helping them. When a baby makes a mess, you don't slap them for it. You just clean them up and love them. One day they will grow up if they are not abused by Pharisees.

And we all know what Yeshua said about those that 'harm the little ones'. They are better off committing suicide by putting a mill stone about their neck and jumping into the sea then to face His judgement for the harm they do to others.

So go right ahead in slapping all those you see as less mature or less righteous but you have been warned of the consequences. You may actually get into the kingdom but unless you repent, IMO you will be just above the least in the kingdom. And that is actually kind of funny because those Christians will be just above the adulterers, fornicators and homosexuals that they so often attack. They will be judged by the harshness they judge others. Those that try to rule over others will be considered among the least of the kingdom.

You may belong to Yeshua but IMO you seem to confuse Him with Baal which means 'the lord'. You probably see yourself on the side of extreme righteousness but the extremes are the realm of the enemy accusing the more moderate position as having compromised with the enemy.

So be it. May you be granted by Yeshua the rewards you truly deserve but remember his commandment:

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

May you reap what you sow when accusing others of being in sin falsely. Let it be 7x by those that judge you to be in sin.

It isn't my job to fix other Christians or 'help' them against their will. I just give the warning then 'let them be' what they are and let them get the reward they truly deserve. I just give the warning as a watcher on the walls. I don't drag people kicking and screaming behind the walls if they ignore the alarm or attack them myself for ignoring the warning. Their blood is upon their own head. All I have to do is give the warning and I'm done. I'm no fat-sheep (ram or he-goat) that bullies other sheep and fouls the waters.

I teach, I warn and let others test the spirit behind it or by scripture if they don't have discernment of Spirits. Let them tear down their own demonic strongholds within their own life to earn the reward of the overcomer.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #25

Post by Yahu »

In my case when I was younger, I had 4 girls offer me their virginity. I turned them all down. I was sexual involved with them but did NOT take their virginity. They were still virgins.

Many see ANY sexual contact as fornication whereas the actual definition is 'illegal sexual intercourse'. It requires full vaginal intercourse to become one with them and is when new life can be conceived. That is what I avoid. Without that, it can NOT be fornication.

Years later after I lost my wife, one of those girls wanted to visit me and court me. She was still a virgin but she still wanted me to take her virginity on that visit. I told her I would court her but not take her virginity unless the courtship was successful and I agreed married her. She called back excited. She had given up her virginity to someone else so she could now have sex with me as soon as she visited. She wanted to take leave from the Air Force and live with me for 30 days during that visit. I had already separated from the military. I broke off the courtship, refused to let her visit and never saw her again. Her desire to manipulate me sexually was unacceptable.

I see taking a girl's virginity without taking her as a wife as a very evil act. It is theft from the man that does marry her and have children with her.

My own wife was not a virgin when we met. She had been gang raped two years before our marriage and as a result had been sexually active to find a loving relationship. I forgave her. We didn't have intercourse during our courtship until we had exchanged vows and I had her father's blessing and permission.

During our marriage, a close friend was dating my roommate. She had double dated with me and my fiance. She broke off her relationship with my roommate and propositioned me. I turned her down. My wife then tried to get me involved with her in a 3 some. I refused. Then they both confronted me and the other woman declared her love for me and how she had fallen in love with me while dating my roommate. She only stayed with him to be around me. She and my wife asked me to be a polygamist and take her on as a 2nd wife. They even had the scriptural backing for it ready. I would only agree if she had her father's blessing and permission. I later found out she hadn't been totally honest with her father and hadn't explained the situation. I was forced to release her from her vows when her father and his pastor demanded it. She was not a virgin.

She had given her virginity to a fiance that then refused to marry her and claimed she was frigid. She had a 2nd failed engagement for the same reason when they become sexually active. It turned out she was fine. The problem had been with the men being unable to stimulate her.

Another close female friend of my wife and I in the military attended a party off-base. It turned out to be held by the local coven and she was drugged and gang raped by about 40 men at the party and bound by curses with witchcraft if she spoke about what happened at the party. She came to me for rape counseling (and to break the curses of witchcraft) because of the help I gave my fiance during our courtship. After a week of counseling she begged me to prove to her she was all right and make love to her. My wife with her past gang rape experience begged me to do it. That girl is the mother of my eldest son who is named after me. She was already emotionally back on her feet and dating another man when she found out she was pregnant and married him. She had been a concubine for a short time with specific understanding that she could not interfere in my primary marriage.

Another girl in the unit also had a conflict with the girls in the coven. They put a sterility curse on her new husband and a love spell on her to me for setting such a bad example of saving her virginity for her wedding night. When they found out they could not have children, I was asked to be their surrogate with my wife's blessing and permission. She was a Levirate concubine until she got pregnant. She was also best friends with the other girl that had my eldest son. That is why they knew I was fertile and their children are biologically half-brothers.

I ended up giving rape counseling to four girls in the dorm that had all been victimized at the coven's off-base parties. I helped get the coven convicted of their activities so they went after my wife before they ended up in prison.

By my understanding of the law, none of that was fornication, adultery or sin in any way. None of it was 'cheating' on my wife. Of course Pharisees don't see it that way but they are just serving their Father, the devil.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #26

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Yahu wrote: Many see ANY sexual contact as fornication whereas the actual definition is 'illegal sexual intercourse'. It requires full vaginal intercourse to become one with them and is when new life can be conceived [...] Without that, it can NOT be fornication.
QUESTION: Can a couple who refrain from sexual intercourse can still be guilty of fornication?

Yes. The original Greek word translated “fornication� (por·neiʹa) has a broad meaning. It describes all forms of sexual relations outside of marriage and focuses on the misuse of the sexual organs. Thus, fornication includes not only intercourse but also acts such as masturbating another person, as well as engaging in oral sex or anal sex.


QUESTION: Is there anything in the word "fornication" that implies it can only be applied to an act can result in conception?

The word apples to ANY kind of illicit, illegal sexual behaviour whether or not a child could be conceived. Thus homosexual anal intercourse cannot possibly result in the conception of a child but is clearly "illegal" in scripture and classifies as a type of "fornication" so suggesting that one cannot commit fornication unless it is full hetrosexual vaginal intercourse is an arbitrary and unscriptural limitation.


Yahu wrote: I was sexual involved with them but did NOT take their virginity. They were still virgins.
SEXUAL UNCLEANESS

QUESTION: Is a man that sexually stimulates a virgin girl's vagina (with hands or mouth), carressing her breasts or penetrating her anually guilty of violating bible standards?

Absolutely. The Bible condemns more than just fornication Galatians 5 speaks of :
“The works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct.� He added: “Those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.�—Galatians 5:19-21
The Greek for "uncleaness" word covers impurity of any kind, in speech or action. It would be unclean to allow one’s hands to stray under another person’s clothing, to remove another’s clothing, or to caress another’s intimate areas, such as the breasts. In the Bible the caressing of the breasts is associated with the pleasures reserved for married couples.—Proverbs 5:18, 19.

Some couples brazenly defy godly standards, they greedily practice what God's word calls sexual uncleanness or what the bible calls “loose conduct.� The Greek word for “loose conduct� means ‘outrageous acts, excess, insolence, unbridled lust.’
“past all moral sense� by giving themselves over to “loose conduct to work uncleanness of every sort with greediness.�—Ephesians 4:17-19

“Love . . . does not behave indecently.�—1 Corinthians 13:4, 5
CONCLUSION: Sincere people that want to please God do well not to have their "ears tickled" by those would-be teachers that excuse their own and other's immorality and telling people what they want to hear. The bible makes clear statements of the sexual behavior that Jehovah God sees as illegal or "unclean". Those that engage in such things, although they may claim to be worshippers of God are actually guilty of sexual immorality and/or loose conduct and do well to heed the biblical warning that “Those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.�—Galatians 5:21 (also compare 1 Cor 6:9-10).

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #27

Post by YahDough »

[Replying to post 24 by Yahu]

As a prophet of Yah, you realize you must perish in Jerusalem, right? Lk:13:33:

The prophets of the Bible spoke for the LORD, not Yah although it was Yah who established Christ Jesus as Lord.(and Messiah) of heaven and earth.

So by being a prophet for Yah you are including all the gods who Yah has created through and for Christ Jesus,

Col:1:16: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through him, and for him:

I think you shoud reasses who you are in Christ.

Born into Christianity or born again into Christ?

Jn:3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #28

Post by Yahu »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Yahu wrote: Many see ANY sexual contact as fornication whereas the actual definition is 'illegal sexual intercourse'. It requires full vaginal intercourse to become one with them and is when new life can be conceived [...] Without that, it can NOT be fornication.
QUESTION: Can a couple who refrain from sexual intercourse can still be guilty of fornication?

Yes. The original Greek word translated “fornication� (por·neiʹa) has a broad meaning. It describes all forms of sexual relations outside of marriage and focuses on the misuse of the sexual organs. Thus, fornication includes not only intercourse but also acts such as masturbating another person, as well as engaging in oral sex or anal sex.
The Greek definition is irrelevant. The word was translated from the Hebrew to Greek. You can't pick a definition of the Greek word that does not apply to the original Hebrew word it was translated from. That is a fallacy. Yes, the Greek word has a broader definition which is why it gets misunderstood when you use a definition that is not valid in the original language.

They were not speaking Greek but had it translated into Greek. You have to go by the Hebrew definition of the word which is 'unlawful sexual intercourse'. By using invalid definitions from the Greek is how the Phariseeism is justified.

That is a common problem when scripture is translated through several languages then interpreted in the final language. It looses its original meaning. For example, the KJV was translated from Hebrew->Greek->Latin->German->English. That is a lot of room for invalid interpretations to creep into the text.

So try to prove your points with the original Hebrew definitions.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #29

Post by Yahu »

YahDough wrote: Born into Christianity or born again into Christ?
The reason I have 'born into Christianity' is because I was born into a Christian household and got saved at 3 years old in Sunday school. I don't remember my life before being saved.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #30

Post by Yahu »

JehovahsWitness wrote: QUESTION: Is there anything in the word "fornication" that implies it can only be applied to an act can result in conception?

The word apples to ANY kind of illicit, illegal sexual behaviour whether or not a child could be conceived. Thus homosexual anal intercourse cannot possibly result in the conception of a child but is clearly "illegal" in scripture and classifies as a type of "fornication" so suggesting that one cannot commit fornication unless it is full hetrosexual vaginal intercourse is an arbitrary and unscriptural limitation.
In the case of homosexuality, it is specifically forbidden by the law so it also falls under 'Illegal sexual intercourse'. If it is specifically forbidden, it falls under the category of fornication.

I was referring to heterosexual intercourse to be fornication it had to be vaginal intercourse. It doesn't require a child to be conceived but be an act that is a spiritual joining that only occurs IMO when there is vaginal intercourse. It does not apply to say oral sex.

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