What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

It seems to me it is seldom if ever specifically defined in scripture, although the term is used more than a few times.

Does it, for example, include polygamy?

How about sex before marriage?

Or homosexuality?

Adultery is a sin, but is it also fornication?

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #31

Post by Yahu »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
SEXUAL UNCLEANESS

QUESTION: Is a man that sexually stimulates a virgin girl's vagina (with hands or mouth), carressing her breasts or penetrating her anually guilty of violating bible standards?

Absolutely. The Bible condemns more than just fornication Galatians 5 speaks of :
“The works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct.� He added: “Those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.�—Galatians 5:19-21
The references of 'loose conduct' is a reference to a female using 'an image of a man' to simulate sex with a dildo thereby making herself loose. That was the purpose of Asherah Poles in the worship at the groves. They were standing tree trunks that were carved as phallic symbols for use in public shows and to 'make the woman loose'. It was destruction of her tight vagina, what scripture calls 'opening the matrix'. The Asherah Poles had progressively larger shafts. The largest ones couldn't generally be used until a woman had a child. At that point the girls that were the ritual prostitutes were allowed to marry but of course their new husband was not sexual satisfied by their looseness and had to visit the grove to get a tight new prostitute thereby causing problems in their marriage. Blessed is the man that opens the matrix, not the dildo.

It is an act that destroys marriages which is suppose to be the earthly symbol of the relationship between Yah and mankind. That is why the enemy is so focused on destroying marriage.

I know some sororities use this practice of forcing their pledges to use progressively larger dildos as part of their requirements to join. It is a recreation of the worship in the Groves. The excuse is to make it easier for the girls to have their first child but it make it harder for them to find a husband. I ran across another coven operating in a sorority when I was in college.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #32

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 31 by Yahu]

Please provide references for this view and refer please to the biblical lexicon (origins of the greek language in a biblical text) that leads you to this conclusion.

Thanks
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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #33

Post by Yahu »

JehovahsWitness wrote: The Greek for "uncleaness" word covers impurity of any kind, in speech or action. It would be unclean to allow one’s hands to stray under another person’s clothing, to remove another’s clothing, or to caress another’s intimate areas, such as the breasts. In the Bible the caressing of the breasts is associated with the pleasures reserved for married couples.—Proverbs 5:18, 19.
The passage in Proverbs 5 is condemning sexual activity with a stranger verses being within a relationship.

18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?

It is saying that type of sexual behavior just to satisfy personal lust with a stranger without any relationship is wrong. The groves are also the place people went to have sex with strangers.

Jer 3:13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.

A reference to sex with strangers in the groves.

Jer 2:23 How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done: thou art a swift dromedary traversing her ways;
24 A wild ass used to the wilderness, that snuffeth up the wind at her pleasure; in her occasion who can turn her away? all they that seek her will not weary themselves; in her month they shall find her.
25 Withhold thy foot from being unshod, and thy throat from thirst: but thou saidst, There is no hope: no; for I have loved strangers, and after them will I go.
26 As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed; they, their kings, their princes, and their priests, and their prophets,
27 Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.

This passage is about Baalim sexual worship. They are going after sex with strangers. The 'stock' that is the father is a reference to Baal and the use of the Asherah Poles. The stone is a reference to Asherah as mother goddess.

Isa 57:3 But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore.
4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,
5 Enflaming yourselves with idols (Asherah Poles) under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys (to Molech) under the clifts of the rocks?
6 Among the smooth stones (Asherah) of the stream is thy portion; they, they are thy lot: even to them hast thou poured a drink offering, thou hast offered a meat offering. Should I receive comfort in these?
7 Upon a lofty and high mountain (high places of worship) hast thou set thy bed: even thither wentest thou up to offer sacrifice.
8 Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance (Phallic symbols): for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it.
9 And thou wentest to the king (Molech) with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers (demonic spirits) far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.

The sexual practices condemned is scripture are closely tied with the corruption of sexual activity conducted in the Baalim worship. That is what Yah is against. Yah is against women destroying their bodies to become loose before they bond with a husband. Yah is against sex just to satisfy lust with strangers. The homosexuality was conducted in the valley with the Molech worship. Not only were children destroyed in the fires to Molech but sexual worship where a child could not be conceived, ie homosexual acts. The heterosexual acts were on the high place above, in the grove.

NONE of it has anything to do with a couple within the confines of a relationship acting out of love for each other. You have to understand what the pagan sexual practices were and why Yah was against them to understand the scriptures condemning them.

For example, when the Israelites were wandering and Balaam had Balak send in the Moab women to lead Israel into error and bring down Yah's curse upon them, the sin wasn't the sex but sex conducted in the pagan rituals of sex with strangers as part of worship of the pagan gods. One of the priests killed a couple in the act because of Yah's jealousy of following after the pagan gods sexual worship.

Scripture is also clear not to plant a Asherah by the alter of Yah. No sexual worship was allowed. That is why the 'price of a dog (homosexual male prostitute) or a harlot' was not to be brought to the temple of Yah.

De 16:21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove (Asherah) of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God, which thou shalt make thee.

De 23:18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

It is the sexual practices of the Baalim worship that the prophets were constantly fighting against. It was the corruption and misuse of sex that destroys marriage that is the problem. It has NOTHING to do with say a couple that is engaged getting sexually involved before a ritual ceremony.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #34

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 33 by Yahu]

I see no reference to Greek or Hebrew here. Or are you suggesting the holy scriptrues were writeen in 21st century English?

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #35

Post by Yahu »

YahDough wrote: [Replying to post 24 by Yahu]

As a prophet of Yah, you realize you must perish in Jerusalem, right? Lk:13:33:
33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Yeshua is referring to himself as messiah and how many of the OT prophets were killed in Jerusalem when their message is rejected. John the Baptist is referenced as a prophet and killed by Herod. That was NOT in Jerusalem!

Do you think that all the NT prophets Paul encountered all went to Jerusalem to die? That is an example of your lack of understanding of scripture, an example of the blind trying to lead the blind. Yeshua says to 'buy eyesalve of Him'.

Prophets are just one of the callings into ministry like evangelist, teacher, pastor, apostle. Prophets are called to bring correction. Those that attempt to bring correction without that calling are 'false prophets'.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

BTW, Yah is just the short form of YHVH.

Ps 68:4 Sing to God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rides on the heavens by his name JAH (Yah in Hebrew), and rejoice before him.

Besides, Im not worried about your judgement. A prophet is called to test the words of other prophets with their gift of discernment of spirits.

I Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

I could care less about people that reject my teachings or those that attack me for my positions. I am called just like John the Baptist to mock Pharisees and as Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal and to stand against Jezebel and her ways.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #36

Post by Yahu »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 31 by Yahu]

Please provide references for this view and refer please to the biblical lexicon (origins of the greek language in a biblical text) that leads you to this conclusion.

Thanks
That explanation came directly from a high priestess of Ashtoreth on what the goals and practices of the Groves (and Ashtoreth worship) and how they were designed to destroy marriage relationships in their attempts to corrupt sexual practices and drive people away from Yah. She learned it directly from Ashtoreth whose spirit had been appearing to her since she was 14 years old and was put in training to be the next worldwide high priestess.

The old testament uses the term 'loose women' to reference those involved in the harlotry of the groves.

Eze 16 is a good example of women involved in worship of Ashtoreth in the groves.

15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
19 My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord GOD.
20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21 That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?
22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.
23 And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD;)
24 That thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street.
25 Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.

Eze 16 is a description of a Jezebel and many of her ways and attributes. It closely parallels the high priestess of Ashtoreth I knew who was my fiance's military roommate. As a matter of fact, the consequences of this prophecy happened to that girl nearly word for word. After she had repented and returned to Catholicism her priest had her read this passage and she knew it applied to her.

32 But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!
33 They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.
34 And the contrary is in thee from other women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary.
35 Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD:
36 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;
37 Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.
38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.
39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.
40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.
41 And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.

That high priestess suffered this consequence. Women victimized by the coven and their friends gave her a blanket party before her arrest. She was stripped, beaten, dry shaved right before the police arrested her and dragged her naked through the jearing crowds to the waiting police car. Then tormented by her own followers in the hold cells because they were going to prison for life for following her. Even after getting out of prison, her family was run out of town and their house burned down. The high place the coven used for their parties in California was destroyed in an earthquake and torn down.

This is the sexual activity that Yah abhors, not a young couple in love getting involved with each other sexually. Equating one with the other is ridiculous.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #37

Post by YahDough »

Yahu wrote:
YahDough wrote: [Replying to post 24 by Yahu]

As a prophet of Yah, you realize you must perish in Jerusalem, right? Lk:13:33:
33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
Yeshua is referring to himself as messiah and how many of the OT prophets were killed in Jerusalem when their message is rejected?

Most of the important ones. You can research that list.
Prophets are just one of the callings into ministry like evangelist, teacher, pastor, apostle. Prophets are called to bring correction.

The office of a prophet is to be a mouthpiece for the LORD. The office of a prophet is likely to have ended when the Holy Ghost was given. Can you figure out why? There is still prophecy that all believers can participate in if called.
BTW, Yah is just the short form of YHVH.
No weh. Literally! Yah is the Father. Weh is the Son, Jesus/Yeshua. Together they are one.
Besides, Im not worried about your judgement. A prophet is called to test the words of other prophets with their gift of discernment of spirits.
All believers are called to test the spirits. Every spirit that does not cofess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is NOT of God. Do you even know what "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh" means?
I could care less about people that reject my teachings or those that attack me for my positions. I am called just like John the Baptist to mock Pharisees and as Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal and to stand against Jezebel and her ways.
John the Bzptist was called to prepare the way of the LORD Jesus. The pharisees were not mocked. they were warned.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #38

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Yahu wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 31 by Yahu]

Please provide references for this view and refer please to the biblical lexicon (origins of the greek language in a biblical text) that leads you to this conclusion.

Thanks
That explanation came directly from a high priestess of Ashtoreth on what the goals and practices of the Groves (and Ashtoreth worship) and how they were designed to destroy marriage relationships in their attempts to corrupt sexual practices and drive people away from Yah. She learned it directly from Ashtoreth whose spirit had been appearing to her since she was 14 years old and was put in training to be the next worldwide high priestess.

The old testament uses the term 'loose women' to reference those involved in the harlotry of the groves.

Eze 16 is a good example of women involved in worship of Ashtoreth in the groves.

15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
19 My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord GOD.
20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21 That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?
22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.
23 And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD;)
24 That thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street.
25 Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.

Eze 16 is a description of a Jezebel and many of her ways and attributes. It closely parallels the high priestess of Ashtoreth I knew who was my fiance's military roommate. As a matter of fact, the consequences of this prophecy happened to that girl nearly word for word. After she had repented and returned to Catholicism her priest had her read this passage and she knew it applied to her.

32 But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!
33 They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.
34 And the contrary is in thee from other women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary.
35 Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD:
36 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;
37 Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.
38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.
39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.
40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.
41 And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.

That high priestess suffered this consequence. Women victimized by the coven and their friends gave her a blanket party before her arrest. She was stripped, beaten, dry shaved right before the police arrested her and dragged her naked through the jearing crowds to the waiting police car. Then tormented by her own followers in the hold cells because they were going to prison for life for following her. Even after getting out of prison, her family was run out of town and their house burned down. The high place the coven used for their parties in California was destroyed in an earthquake and torn down.

This is the sexual activity that Yah abhors, not a young couple in love getting involved with each other sexually. Equating one with the other is ridiculous.

I still see no reference to greek of Hebrew. Using big letters doesn't fill a workiing knowledge of the bible languages as evidence of the meaning of words.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Romans 14:8

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #39

Post by Yahu »

YahDough wrote: The office of a prophet is to be a mouthpiece for the LORD. The office of a prophet is likely to have ended when the Holy Ghost was given. Can you figure out why? There is still prophecy that all believers can participate in if called.
BTW, Yah is just the short form of YHVH.
No weh. Literally! Yah is the Father. Weh is the Son, Jesus/Yeshua. Together they are one.
LOL, I would like to see how you prove that Yah is Father and Weh is son. Do you even know the paleo-hebrew meaning of YHVH?

BTW, Paul dealt with many prophets in the book of Acts. No the prophets didn't stop when the Holy Spirit was given. They became more common. It is one of the 5 callings in the NT church. You must be one of those nonsense fundamentalists that thinks the gifts of the spirit stopped for some ridiculous reason. Prophets are as common as say Evangelists.
All believers are called to test the spirits. Every spirit that does not cofess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is NOT of God. Do you even know what "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh" means?
It takes the spiritual gift of discernment of spirits to test specific doctrines as to what spirit is behind it. For example, I sat under a guest speaker at bible college that was teaching on prosperity and twisting scripture. It was knotting up my guts as wrong. The Holy Spirit told me he was teaching Baal-gad (lord of fortune) doctrine to give to get motivated by greed.

Of course I don't know what YOU think 'Yeshua is come in flesh' means. It doesn't matter what I say. You will find fault with it because you have already classified me as an 'enemy of the gospel'. I already told you the gospel I teach whereas you teach a gospel of works to earn salvation and include your sexual activity as how you earn salvation. Since you are already in bondage to the 'anti-christ' spirit (Baal spirit) following a false gospel, your judgement is irrelevant. The demons within you won't allow you to test correctly until you tear down their strongholds within your life.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #40

Post by Yahu »

JehovahsWitness wrote: I still see no reference to greek of Hebrew. Using big letters doesn't fill a workiing knowledge of the bible languages as evidence of the meaning of words.
Eze 16:17 Thou hast also taken <03947> (8799) thy fair <08597> jewels <03627> of my gold <02091> and of my silver <03701>, which I had given <05414> (8804) thee, and madest <06213> (8799) to thyself images <06754> of men <02145>, and didst commit whoredom <02181> (8799) with them,
strongs wrote: 06754 �לצ tselem tseh’- lem

from an unused root meaning to shade; n m; {See TWOT on 1923 @@ "1923a"}

AV-image 16, vain shew 1; 17

1) image
1a) images (of tumours, mice, heathen gods)
1b) image, likeness (of resemblance)
1c) mere, empty, image, semblance (fig.)

02145 רכז zakar zaw-kawr’

from 02142; ;{ See TWOT on 551 @@ "551e"}

AV-male 67, man 7, child 4, mankind 2, him 1; 81

n m
1) male (of humans and animals)

adj
2) male (of humans)

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