What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

It seems to me it is seldom if ever specifically defined in scripture, although the term is used more than a few times.

Does it, for example, include polygamy?

How about sex before marriage?

Or homosexuality?

Adultery is a sin, but is it also fornication?

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #41

Post by YahDough »

Yahu wrote:
Of course I don't know what YOU think 'Yeshua is come in flesh' means. It doesn't matter what I say. You will find fault with it because you have already classified me as an 'enemy of the gospel'.
That was my initial judgement against you. Now I am not sure. Your spirit does not confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
I already told you the gospel I teach whereas you teach a gospel of works to earn salvation and include your sexual activity as how you earn salvation.
My sexual activity?! I have reported you for that lie. I teach sanctification as part of the salvation process. Do you know what sanctification is?.
Since you are already in bondage to the 'anti-christ' spirit (Baal spirit) following a false gospel, your judgement is irrelevant.
The demons within you won't allow you to test correctly until you tear down their strongholds within your life.
That is another personal attack and lie. I am not in bondage to you.

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Post #42

Post by OnceConvinced »

Yahu wrote: You must be one of those nonsense fundamentalists

Since you are already in bondage to the 'anti-christ' spirit (Baal spirit)

following a false gospel, your judgement is irrelevant.

The demons within you

:warning: Moderator Warning


This post has become not much more than a rant against Yahdough. The above comments are getting quite judgemental and nasty. Please refrain from them and just stick to the topic of debate.


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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #43

Post by Yahu »

YahDough wrote: That is another personal attack and lie. I am not in bondage to you.
'In bondage to me'??? LOL are you suggesting I am the anti-christ because I teach against Phariseeism and its modern day application in the churches of expanding on the actual law of Yah?

I don't want anyone in bondage to me! The first step in getting free from bondage is to realize you are in bondage and need to get free of it.

Telling people they aren't saved because of being guilty of fornication by your definition prevents them from entering the kingdom is also bondage to demonic doctrine IMO.

You are like the individuals Checkpoint referenced as a 'self-appointed gate keeper' that tries to keep people out of the kingdom if they don't measure up to your standards, expanded definitions and twists scriptures to present it as a false teacher.

Yeshua refers to that as being 'a two fold child of hell'. You have been taught false doctrine then go around attacking anyone that doesn't bow to the same false doctrine and tells them they can't go to heaven.

Equating salvation with sanctification is bondage to demonic doctrine. Sanctification is spiritual growth after salvation yet you are still putting high standards of sanctification upon actually salvation requirements thus turning salvation into works based theology.

I don't have any problem with people limiting their sexual activity and considering it righteousness. I recommend that girls save their virginity for their wedding night. I don't tolerate those that go around attacking others and telling them they are not saved or loose their salvation because they don't hold to those same standards.

I see a big difference between an adulterer and a christian that has committed adultery and is forgiven of it. There is a HUGE difference between a fornicator and a couple that has pre-marital sex before a sanctioned church wedding. There is a big difference between a homosexual and a homosexual that gets saved but never gets free of his bondage to that sin.

My suggestion to you is that you worry about the problems in your own life (the beams in your own eyes) and work on your own sanctification process to become more Christlike and stop attacking those you think are in sin. Don't believe the lie you are helping them by attacking them and using fear tactics of the pit of hell. It isn't your job to fix anybody but yourself and those under your authority like your own children unless of course you have a calling to an office of ministry to do so.

It is also mostly women that attack men's sexuality because they don't like Yah's actual sexual laws because they see it as unfair. That is why women were to be silent in the churches. You have to understand male sexual issues to be a qualified judge of men's sexual issues. That is why a priest that was required to have functioning testicles. Being castrated or taken injury in battle to their sex organs disqualified them from the priesthood.

De 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Lev 21:18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #44

Post by YahDough »

Yahu wrote:
YahDough wrote: That is another personal attack and lie. I am not in bondage to you.
'In bondage to me'??? LOL are you suggesting I am the anti-christ because I teach against Phariseeism and its modern day application in the churches of expanding on the actual law of Yah?
No. I was suggesting you are "a" anti-christ and false prophet. Do you confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?

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Post #45

Post by Peds nurse »

[Replying to post 43 by Yahu]


:warning: Moderator Warning


Hello Yahu! It is obvious, that you are a very intelligent person. I think that you could be a blessing to this forum. If you don't tame your tongue, we won't get a chance to find out. There is no need to attack people...or to preach. Debate the topic, and leave personal remarks out.

Thank you!

Please review our Rules.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #46

Post by Yahu »

YahDough wrote:
Yahu wrote:
YahDough wrote: That is another personal attack and lie. I am not in bondage to you.
'In bondage to me'??? LOL are you suggesting I am the anti-christ because I teach against Phariseeism and its modern day application in the churches of expanding on the actual law of Yah?
No. I was suggesting you are "a" anti-christ and false prophet. Do you confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?
There is a simple reason for that.

One of the errors of a false teacher according to Jude is they fall into the error of Baalam to place a stumbling block before others.

Jude 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
....
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

One of the errors of a spirit of Balaam is also to cast stumbling blocks before others.

Re 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock ...

It is your motive to do just that if I don't answer in the way YOU define 'christ came in the flesh'. You are trying to lay a trap for me. I don't play those games. I have stated my position even within this thread and in many others.

The way of Cain is attacking your brother when he exposes your error. Core, who the OT calls Korah, wanted to usurp false authority away from Moses.

On top of that, IMO you follow a path that turns grace into something evil, ie Laciviousness by your claims that sexual sins according to you not only limit inheritance in the kingdom but entrance into the kingdom. You deny grace and make it evil for those that are guilty of sexual sin.

Yes, sexual sin will hinder spiritual growth, ie sanctification, but not keep people out of the kingdom. It will limit their rewards, position and status in the kingdom but not exclude them from the kingdom.

Sanctification has nothing to do with 'salvation of the spirit'. It has to do with 'salvation of the soul'. Salvation of the spirit is what gets you into the kingdom. It is a one time event when you accept Yeshua as messiah, that He came as God in the flesh with the limitation of a man to be the final sacrifice for all of our sins, past, present and future. That salvation of the spirit when you become a new creation, with the Holy Spirit entering into your life you are SAVED. Sanctification is salvation of the soul and is a PROCESS for the rest of your life that effects your status within the kingdom. It is your spiritual growth process that determines your glorification level within the kingdom.

Daniel put it this way.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

What you apparently don't understand is those resurrected to 'shame and everlasting contempt' are in the kingdom but excluded from the capitol city, they are outside the walls in what scripture calls the 'outer darkness'. It isn't being cast into the lake of fire but being unworthy to even enter the gates much less walk with Yeshua in white robes of righteousness.

I don't tolerate false teachers that equate pre-marital sex as equivalent to what the OT clearly considers fornication as the activities associated with the pagan sexual worship of ritual prostitution, sex with strangers and those types of activities. It has NOTHING to do with sexual activities within a loving heterosexual relationship unless it violates a specific law forbidding it like in the case of the woman being in covenant with another man.

Even if someone is guilty of violating one of those laws. Grace covers it and they still enter into the kingdom. It is those living in blatant abominations that are in so much sexual bondage that are even excluded from the Heavenly city, ie outside the walls in the outer darkness.

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

This is a reference to being in 'The Father's house'.

I don't fall for the 'fear tactics' of telling people they are excluded from the kingdom if they don't abide by an expanded Pharisiacal definition of what constitutes fornication.

I don't fall for the error of people that turn grace into laciviousness.

I don't try to place stumbling blocks before others.

I don't fall for the error of a works based salvation. It is a free gift that none of us can boast about. Paul put it as 'you foolish Galations. Who has bewitched you?' when they tried to follow a false gospel of works based salvation. In their case, those in error were putting the requirement of people converting to Judaism and being circumcised as a requirement for salvation whereas you are putting the highest sexual standard of the High Priesthood under the law as a requirement of salvation. That high priesthood was required to marry a single virgin woman and only have 1 wife. Concubines were forbidden to them.

I don't tolerate Pharisees that expand the law and that go around slapping the 'little ones' telling them they aren't qualified for heaven. You are better off to commit suicide they face Yeshua's wrath for that according to Him.

I wouldn't want to trade positions with someone like you to stand before the Judgement seat of Yeshua.

My own biggest error is that I don't teach in humility as Paul recommends. Some people just need a good slap in the face before they wake up and see how badly they are in error. You have to: "to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down ..." the bondage to false doctrine before people can see truth.

Yes, it is the highest standard for two virgins to marry and remain faithful only to each other their entire lives. But not meeting that level of purity doesn't exclude people from the kingdom. People can be in the good, exceptionable or perfect will of Yah. Pre-marital sex between consenting adults that are not in violation of specific things forbidden may not be in the perfect will of Yah but fall under the exceptionable will. If it isn't forbidden, it is allowed but may not be the best course of action.

Requiring perfection to gain salvation is a doctrine spread by Baalim doctrines. It also teaches that since no one can gain that perfection, there is no point in even trying because you can not ever meet that level of perfection and are doomed anyway so might as well have fun in this life. That religious bondage to perfection is a tactic of the anti-christ spirit to turn people away from even attempting the sanctification process.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #47

Post by Yahu »

Under the law, there were 3 different standards of sexual behavior.

1) for the general population and for foreigners living in the land.
2) for the priesthood.
3) for those descent of Arron as members of the High Preisthood.

The general populous could have multiple wives and concubines. They could take war captives as wives/concubines.

Even the priesthood could take concubines.

The high priesthood was limited to ONLY marrying one virgin wife of the people. They couldn't even marry a foreigner.

This is an example of those being in the exceptionable, good or perfect will of Yah pertaining to sexual behavior. People that equate the perfect will of Yah as an absolute requirement of entrance into heaven don't understand those concepts.

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #48

Post by YahDough »

Yahu wrote:
YahDough wrote:
Yahu wrote:
YahDough wrote: That is another personal attack and lie. I am not in bondage to you.
'In bondage to me'??? LOL are you suggesting I am the anti-christ because I teach against Phariseeism and its modern day application in the churches of expanding on the actual law of Yah?
No. I was suggesting you are "a" anti-christ and false prophet. Do you confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?
There is a simple reason for that.
A reason for what?
One of the errors of a false teacher according to Jude is they fall into the error of Baalam to place a stumbling block before others.
You mean like what you do when you downplay fornication.
]Jude 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
....
You mean men like you who think and teach it's OK to practice "sex sins" like fornication?

And you didn't answer the question..."Do you confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?"

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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #49

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Yahu wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: I still see no reference to greek or Hebrew. Using big letters doesn't fill a workiing knowledge of the bible languages as evidence of the meaning of words.
Eze 16:17 Thou hast also taken <03947> (8799) thy fair <08597> jewels <03627> of my gold <02091> and of my silver <03701>, which I had given <05414> (8804) thee, and madest <06213> (8799) to thyself images <06754> of men <02145>, and didst commit whoredom <02181> (8799) with them,
strongs wrote: 06754 �לצ tselem tseh’- lem

from an unused root meaning to shade; n m; {See TWOT on 1923 @@ "1923a"}

AV-image 16, vain shew 1; 17

1) image
1a) images (of tumours, mice, heathen gods)
1b) image, likeness (of resemblance)
1c) mere, empty, image, semblance (fig.)

02145 רכז zakar zaw-kawr’

from 02142; ;{ See TWOT on 551 @@ "551e"}

AV-male 67, man 7, child 4, mankind 2, him 1; 81

n m
1) male (of humans and animals)

adj
2) male (of humans)


All very interesting of course but the word under discussion is Greek for "brazen/loose conduct" as it appears in Galatians 5:19 (not the Hebrew for "image" or the various other words in your post).

Galatians 5:19 refers to aselgeia (see post 31 ) : STRONGS #766 “licentiousness; wantonness; shameless conduct; lewdness of conduct.� The New Thayers Greek-English Lexicon it as “unbridled lust, . . . outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence.�

It is rendered by various translations as "debauchery" "lasciviousness" "lustful pleasures""sensuality" and even "luxury"
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebibl ... 7.htm#S766

So I'm asking for a reference for your statement that ....
Yahu wrote:The references of 'loose conduct' is a reference to a female using 'an image of a man' to simulate sex with a dildo
Your post is the equivalent of someone asking for a definition of a "window" and you posting the definition of a "Volkswagen".



Thanks,


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Re: What does the Bible mean by "fornication"?

Post #50

Post by Yahu »

YahDough wrote: You mean men like you who think and teach it's OK to practice "sex sins" like fornication?
I do NOT teach it is ok to practice fornication.

I disagree with the modern day church that defines fornication as any pre-marital sexual contact. That is NOT the Hebrew definition of the word or how the Old Testament portrays fornication.

I have shown how Phariseeism is about expanding on the actual law and Yeshua's resistance to those practices of the Pharisees.

By your definitions, Jacob, Abraham, Ruth, Tamar, Judah were all in sin when they were in fact not in sin. Tamar would have been put to death if in sin but she showed how her actions were lawful.

I took Hebrew at Lee University under a professor that had his doctorate in Semitic languages. The book of Ruth was covered and Ruth was told by Naomi to wait until Boaz had feast and drank then go have intercourse with him after he went to sleep. The OT is very graphic sexually but it isn't portrayed in the English translations to prevent offending puritanical values. As I understand it, so are the Latin translations of the OT.

I will accept the correctness of my Hebrew professor at a major bible college over a random poster on a religious forum.

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