Are there any gay relationships in the Bible?

[Checkpoint]

I do not find any, but others do.

Some say David and Jonathan were in love, had sex, and were even married.

They also cite Ruth and Naomi as being similar.

How do you read David and Jonathan, and Ruth and Naomi?

[OnceConvinced]

Hi Tam!

We are getting side tracked here, so I thought I'd respond to you on my thread here:

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 232#786232

[Goat]

Since historically it was extremely rare for men in their 30's to be single, I would say there is ample evidence that Jesus and his disciples were likely gay.

There are other alternatives. 1) Widowers. 2) Married, but wive not mentioned. 3) divorced.

[Strider324]

Since historically it was extremely rare for men in their 30's to be single, I would say there is ample evidence that Jesus and his disciples were likely gay.

There are other alternatives. 1) Widowers. 2) Married, but wive not mentioned. 3) divorced.

Sure, but a bunch of widowers at 30 seems a stretch (unless they all killed their wives for complaining about them being out all the time and ignoring the kids). And divorce? How common was divorce in 1st century Judaism?

Not mentioning the irrelevant wives seems the most parsimonious explanation of the 3. But being gay is certainly a possibility. If one looks at the large sub-culture of gays historically in the RCC, it becomes even more of one.

[Goat]

Since historically it was extremely rare for men in their 30's to be single, I would say there is ample evidence that Jesus and his disciples were likely gay.

There are other alternatives. 1) Widowers. 2) Married, but wive not mentioned. 3) divorced.

Sure, but a bunch of widowers at 30 seems a stretch (unless they all killed their wives for complaining about them being out all the time and ignoring the kids). And divorce? How common was divorce in 1st century Judaism?

Not mentioning the irrelevant wives seems the most parsimonious explanation of the 3. But being gay is certainly a possibility. If one looks at the large sub-culture of gays historically in the RCC, it becomes even more of one.

Who said they were ALL widowers??? It could be a combination of several. Since not being married was rare, and for that matter, many marriages were arranged, with a high rate of mortality among women giving birth, there would be likely to be widowers at age 30.

[Strider324]

Since historically it was extremely rare for men in their 30's to be single, I would say there is ample evidence that Jesus and his disciples were likely gay.

There are other alternatives. 1) Widowers. 2) Married, but wive not mentioned. 3) divorced.

Sure, but a bunch of widowers at 30 seems a stretch (unless they all killed their wives for complaining about them being out all the time and ignoring the kids). And divorce? How common was divorce in 1st century Judaism?

Not mentioning the irrelevant wives seems the most parsimonious explanation of the 3. But being gay is certainly a possibility. If one looks at the large sub-culture of gays historically in the RCC, it becomes even more of one.

Who said they were ALL widowers??? It could be a combination of several. Since not being married was rare, and for that matter, many marriages were arranged, with a high rate of mortality among women giving birth, there would be likely to be widowers at age 30.

I didn't say ALL widowers. Yes, it could be a combination - or they could have been gay. We'll never know.

[JLB32168]

I agree that the OT never shies away from saying “M. X was sleeping with Mlle. Y� so the absence of mention homosexual relationships suggests that none of the relationships mentioned in the OT were that type. It just seems highly unlikely (if not a desperate modern attempt to justify these relationships.)

[JehovahsWitness]

I agree that the OT never shies away from saying “M. X was sleeping with Mlle. Y� so the absence of mention homosexual relationships suggests that none of the relationships mentioned in the OT were that type. It just seems highly unlikely (if not a desperate modern attempt to justify these relationships.)

I would agree, in fact that's a point I made earlier a book that is so brutally honest on matters of sexual sins and deviations is hardly going to neglect to mention David and Jonathan having a sexual relationship if that were the case. After all it mentions David seducing another man's wife and then having the man killed to cover over his crime; his son raping his daughter, his other son having sex with David's own wives (secondary wives/conclubines)... all actions that were totally illegal but recorded with a surprising frankness.

[bluethread]

I didn't say ALL widowers. Yes, it could be a combination - or they could have been gay. We'll never know.

Just a second, weren't you one of those people who insisted up and down that the judgement of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality? How can one be so certain about that not being the case and expect this speculative argument be given credence?

[Strider324]

I didn't say ALL widowers. Yes, it could be a combination - or they could have been gay. We'll never know.

Just a second, weren't you one of those people who insisted up and down that the judgement of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality? How can one be so certain about that not being the case and expect this speculative argument be given credence?

I can be certain because I read and understood the text and context regarding Sodom. So, I'm not sure what you're babbling about here. Understanding that the sin of Sodom described was one of being inhospitable has nothing to do with my right to speculate about the sexual preferences of anyone in the bible. Just by what we know of the prevalence of homosexuality in our species, it's likely at least 1 of the 12 disciples was Gay. That said, I couldn't care less whether anyone gives credence to this logical speculation.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 29 by Strider324]

That said, I couldn't care less whether anyone gives credence to this logical speculation.

Me too.

Nobody knows for sure whether any specific person mentioned in the Bible was in fact gay.

All we have is opinion based on no more than speculation that is neither always logical nor ever provable.