Is "being born this way" an acceptable justificati

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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KingandPriest
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Is "being born this way" an acceptable justificati

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Post by KingandPriest »

An all to common argument I have heard to support homosexuality or transgender-ism is the concept of being born this way. As a Christian I could relate to the concept of being born with a proclivity towards a certain activity which may lead to sin.

Recently, I heard a discussion which reminded me of one of my undergraduate law courses. This was years ago, so I apologize if I do not present as good an argument as this professor. In the course, the professor argued for maintaining the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman because in the court of law, setting a legal precedence on one matter can lead to unintended applications of the decision later on.

As we know, the law is tricky in that a judge may be forced to rule one way based on precedence rather than fairness or equity. To this end, the professor argued that if the law was changed (as it has been today) because one judge or a few judges deemed it acceptable to broaden the definition of marriage, then a precedent could be set for future changes resulting in "undesired effects."

This now leads to the conversation on being "born this way." When a person is making an argument from the position of being "born this way" are they arguing that any person who is born with certain attractions should be allowed to love who ever they wish?

I ask, because many individuals who are currently considered sexual pedophiles can argue that they were born this way, and were attracted to younger people since they were a child. Is it wrong to condemn these individuals for their attractions but praise or support an individual who has homosexual feelings?

If the only answer is because they are breaking the law, then it is fair to argue that homosexuality was once illegal in many nations in the world. Is is possible that a precedent has been set to allow those who were once demonized and criminalized as pedophiles to join the LGBT community, as another misunderstood and rejected people group?

Why treat those who have been "born with a attraction" to the same sex differently from those who have been "born with an attraction" to a younger individual?


In some places, consent for marriage can occur as young as 13. Could those individuals who desire to have relationships and marriage to 13 year old, use the precedent of changing the definition of marriage to expand the parameters on consent as well?

What about being born with an attraction towards animals, or physical objects? The porn industry is evidence that people have these desires. Should they be allowed to marry what they love as well? In short, the professor argued that the court of law does not ask, "where does it end" if precedent has been set and no new laws are written.

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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #91

Post by DanieltheDragon »

MuffMaYne wrote: [Replying to post 88 by benchwarmer]

It doesn't matter if its woman, women, or any other verbage you wanna use for female. Here let me make this as simple as possible for you.

Marriage by biblical standards is between the genders of males and females. Males marry females.
By your biblical standards that may be the case, as I pointed out various sects including mainline protestants have gay marriage as a biblical rite. So let me make this as simple as possible for you.

That is just your biblical standard.

Why therefore should your opinion override the opinions and of others especially those who do not believe in Christianity?
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MuffMaYne
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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #92

Post by MuffMaYne »

[Replying to post 90 by DanieltheDragon]

Theres no such thing as MY biblical standards. Theres just whats written. Now I invite anyone to pull up a bible verse that condones same sex marriage, but untill then idk why you'd even bring it up.

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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #93

Post by DanieltheDragon »

MuffMaYne wrote: [Replying to post 90 by DanieltheDragon]

Theres no such thing as MY biblical standards. Theres just whats written. Now I invite anyone to pull up a bible verse that condones same sex marriage, but untill then idk why you'd even bring it up.
If there is no such thing as your biblical standard and there is only one biblical standard why do you and mainline Protestants disagree on what the biblical standard for marriage is?

Why is there over 40,000 denominations?

Not much of a standard if you ask me.
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MuffMaYne
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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #94

Post by MuffMaYne »

[Replying to post 92 by DanieltheDragon]

Why? Because theres people like you who think theres such a thing as "Your" or "My" biblical standard.

But ill say it again for any readers sake, theres no such thing as my or your biblical standards. Theres just whats written, whether I agree with is, want to accept it, or even believe it, what I think or feel does not change whats written.

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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #95

Post by DanieltheDragon »

MuffMaYne wrote: [Replying to post 92 by DanieltheDragon]

Why? Because theres people like you who think theres such a thing as "Your" or "My" biblical standard.

But ill say it again for any readers sake, theres no such thing as my or your biblical standards. Theres just whats written, whether I agree with is, want to accept it, or even believe it, what I think or feel does not change whats written.
So if there is variation in what the standard is based on the existence of people. Why even call it a standard? Since after all there is nothing standard about it if billions of people treat the bible with such a wide variety of views how can any of it be considered standard?

What if we don't even agree with what's written? You are aware there are no original manuscripts and those that are the earliest copies only exists in bits and fragments. Some bibles include some manuscripts that others disregard.

It is a fact that there is variation with what is accepted as scripture and what is not.
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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #96

Post by MuffMaYne »

[Replying to post 94 by DanieltheDragon]

This isn't a topic about whether you believe whats written is accurate or true or about peoples standards.

Whats written is written and whats written is whats referenced. What your standards, my standards, or anyone elses standards are dont matter. Whats written and what was asked is what matters.

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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #97

Post by DanieltheDragon »

MuffMaYne wrote: [Replying to post 94 by DanieltheDragon]

This isn't a topic about whether you believe whats written is accurate or true or about peoples standards.

Whats written is written and whats written is whats referenced. What your standards, my standards, or anyone elses standards are dont matter. Whats written and what was asked is what matters.

I don't have a "standard" when it comes to the bible it is simply a piece of literature. The problem with what is "written" is it is ambiguous and contradictory. Hence, why mainline Protestants consider gay marriage a rite and you do not. You are the one claiming there is one standard. You have yet to prove there is anything remotely close to a standard.

I never commented on whether what is written is accurate or true, merely I pointed out that it is factually dishonest to say there is one bible standard when that is simply not the case.
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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #98

Post by KingandPriest »

DanieltheDragon wrote:
MuffMaYne wrote: [Replying to post 94 by DanieltheDragon]

This isn't a topic about whether you believe whats written is accurate or true or about peoples standards.

Whats written is written and whats written is whats referenced. What your standards, my standards, or anyone elses standards are dont matter. Whats written and what was asked is what matters.

I don't have a "standard" when it comes to the bible it is simply a piece of literature. The problem with what is "written" is it is ambiguous and contradictory. Hence, why mainline Protestants consider gay marriage a rite and you do not. You are the one claiming there is one standard. You have yet to prove there is anything remotely close to a standard.

I never commented on whether what is written is accurate or true, merely I pointed out that it is factually dishonest to say there is one bible standard when that is simply not the case.
Hello Daniel,

I read your post where you seemed to imply that because a certain action is recorded in the bible, it means the bible condones or approves of such an action. Just because Lamech took two wives, this does not mean it was the standard set forth by God. Even when questioned about marriage, Jesus himself pointed back to the original intent, not the actions people did of thier own will.
Matthew 19:3-6

3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?�

4“Haven’t you read,� he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’a 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’b ? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.�
So the standard is clear.

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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #99

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 97 by KingandPriest]

If your going to imply I said something please support it with quotes, as there was another poster talking about Lamech.

As to your the bible is clear does your quoted verse prohibit gay marriage? Does it prohibit plural marriage? Is it stated as a rule? I think the answer is you might interpret it that way but the specific wording is ambiguous to these questions.
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Re: Is "being born this way" an acceptable justifi

Post #100

Post by MuffMaYne »

[Replying to post 96 by DanieltheDragon]

OF course theres only one standard and its the one thats written down. Thats all thats required to prove theres no my or your standard. Now how you would prove that you could read the Bible and come to the conclusion that same sex marriage is okay? idk. You've yet to provide anything because there is nothing. The Bible makes it clear what marriage is and its between a man and a woman, so even if a person was "born this way" at the very least they'd be guilty of out of marriage sex.

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