Was Jesus Gay?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

Moderator: Moderators

JJ50
Banned
Banned
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 6:22 am

Was Jesus Gay?

Post #1

Post by JJ50 »

Jesus apparently had a specific disciple, presumably a guy, whom he loved,he never condemned homosexuality, of course there is nothing wrong with being in a relationship with someone of the same sex, so I wonder if he was gay? If it could be proved he was, I wonder how those Christians who are anti-gay bigots would react?

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 2 times

Post #41

Post by marco »

bluethread wrote:

Well, I have provided reasonable justifications for my viewpoint, complete with cultural references. You seem to have nothing more that the lack of machismo as support for your view.
You have given nothing about Jesus to support your view. The few details we have support mine. I said noting about "lack of machismo."
bluethread wrote:
It is heartening to see that you would consider equating one man's love for another with homosexual attraction absurd.
Let me dishearten you: it may well be homosexual attraction. It may not be.

Of course when Christ's biographers were describing him, then "agape" would be the preferred form. I don't see how we can say whether Christ made a distinction between eros, phileo or agape in his speeches, but his actions speak louder than Greek words. Your Greek diversion is just that - irrelevant. We must disagree but I think the odds are in my favour. We would have expected at least one report on Christs's love for some lady. We have plenty for Muhammad.

User avatar
JJC_3
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Was Jesus Gay?

Post #42

Post by JJC_3 »

[Replying to post 1 by JJ50]

Fun topic/question to put out for getting interesting responces from people but not very realistic if you read the bible with an open mind and take the question literally. Without quoting at you I can point out that Jesus teaches to love neighbors, enemies, God, and lots of other people; however, love is not equivalent to sex. Someone could have simmilarly used the voice of God at Jesus's baptismal, "this is my son in whom I am well pleased," as an account of child molestation/incest and it would simmilarly prove nothing about the real account of Jesus that has to be interpreted in context.

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Was Jesus Gay?

Post #43

Post by marco »

JJC_3 wrote:
Without quoting at you I can point out that Jesus teaches to love neighbors, enemies, God, and lots of other people; however, love is not equivalent to sex.
I don't think it is intended to suggest that when Jesus speaks of loving one's neighbour, there is a sexual implication. Of course we know next to nothing about most of his life and so we have to make wild extrapolations on details we have: his choice of lifestyle, his choice of companions, his "beloved" disciple. There is not the slightest hint that he had sexual feelings, which might itself suggest repressed or concealed sexuality. It is not an outlandish proposition.

Notice that the "temptations" he had, witnessed by no one, are not the usual temptations of a young man. The question is a reasonable one to ask.

imhereforyou
Scholar
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: Was Jesus Gay?

Post #44

Post by imhereforyou »

bluethread wrote:
JJ50 wrote: [Replying to post 4 by 1213]

Love can be gay or straight, whatever that no so good book has to say on the topic.
It can also be neither. Love does not have to be related to sex.
True. But that you would equate 'gay or straight' towards sex seems to jeopardize your own statement (Love does not have to be related to sex) as neither does gay or straight.

imhereforyou
Scholar
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: Was Jesus Gay?

Post #45

Post by imhereforyou »

JJ50 wrote: Jesus apparently had a specific disciple, presumably a guy, whom he loved,he never condemned homosexuality, of course there is nothing wrong with being in a relationship with someone of the same sex, so I wonder if he was gay? If it could be proved he was, I wonder how those Christians who are anti-gay bigots would react?
A lot of depictions of Jesus on the cross has him looking pretty jacked and buff.
Maybe Jesus wasn't gay but those who wrote about him and created art of him were?
Surely Jesus had gay fans - it's never written that he talked down to gay people or said they would burn in hell - he even cavorted with a prostitute!

User avatar
Danmark
Site Supporter
Posts: 12697
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:58 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Was Jesus Gay?

Post #46

Post by Danmark »

Mithrae wrote:
There's just no information on Jesus' sexuality, it's as simple as that. There were just as many women following him around and in his support network as men - probably more, given how unusual it is that they were mentioned (Mark 15:40-41, Luke 8:1-3) - and he allegedly didn't begin to preach until he was thirty. He could have been a family man for the sixteen years before that, and perhaps a widower. He could have been married to one of the women who followed him; Mary Magdalene is popularly speculated. He could have had little interest one way or the other, as is commonly assumed. But as I said, either way all attempts that I've seen to hype up some trivial detail or other into 'evidence' about Jesus' sexuality have seemed feeble at best.
Obviously we do not KNOW, but to some the evidence is more indicative of homosexuality than hetero.
There is no record of marriage, children, or a special female friendship anything akin to the clear references to John, the beloved disciple.
He surrounded himself with men, the disciples, but there are few specific references to women by name.

Jesus suggested turning the other cheek rather than fighting. One can trot out an array of stereotypes, but in few of them [or none?] does the prejudice suggest the typical male is LESS aggressive or more peace loving than a gay man.

The women in his life, except for his mother, come across as pals; yet as mentioned before, John is viewed in a special light. There is no evidence Jesus acted out what is reasonably suggested was a gay orientation, it seems to me more likely than not that he was gay whether or not he acted out his desires with intimacy.

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Was Jesus Gay?

Post #47

Post by marco »

Danmark wrote:
The women in his life, except for his mother, come across as pals; yet as mentioned before, John is viewed in a special light. There is no evidence Jesus acted out what is reasonably suggested was a gay orientation, it seems to me more likely than not that he was gay whether or not he acted out his desires with intimacy.
Across the world at that time poets were penning poems that would be termed hard pornography today; an essential detail about a man then would be the status of his wife or the number of his girl friends. Jesus was placed above sexuality and mirth. Did he ever read suggestive poetry?

The temptations, written as they are, are meaningless gibberish. The Devil didn't visit the Middle East and make idiotic suggestions. But if we accept that the hymnologists singing about Jesus wanted to show what a tough job he had with temptation, then the unreal picture of him with Satan suffices to account for Christ's control of adolescent lust. Accounts of him are so sanitised that it is almost sinful to suggest he used toilet facilities. So perhaps our ideas that he was gay are influenced by the reluctance of his biographers not to include warts. No wonder some question the existence of such a perfection in flesh.

User avatar
Danmark
Site Supporter
Posts: 12697
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:58 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Was Jesus Gay?

Post #48

Post by Danmark »

marco wrote:
Danmark wrote:
The women in his life, except for his mother, come across as pals; yet as mentioned before, John is viewed in a special light. There is no evidence Jesus acted out what is reasonably suggested was a gay orientation, it seems to me more likely than not that he was gay whether or not he acted out his desires with intimacy.
Across the world at that time poets were penning poems that would be termed hard pornography today; an essential detail about a man then would be the status of his wife or the number of his girl friends. Jesus was placed above sexuality and mirth. Did he ever read suggestive poetry?

The temptations, written as they are, are meaningless gibberish. The Devil didn't visit the Middle East and make idiotic suggestions. But if we accept that the hymnologists singing about Jesus wanted to show what a tough job he had with temptation, then the unreal picture of him with Satan suffices to account for Christ's control of adolescent lust. Accounts of him are so sanitised that it is almost sinful to suggest he used toilet facilities. So perhaps our ideas that he was gay are influenced by the reluctance of his biographers not to include warts. No wonder some question the existence of such a perfection in flesh.
You make an excellent point about sanitizing. But I suggest that argues more about him being gay than otherwise. Jesus singles out John as the beloved disciple, the special one, the one who should be son to Jesus own mother.
"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home."

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Was Jesus Gay?

Post #49

Post by marco »

Danmark wrote:

You make an excellent point about sanitizing. But I suggest that argues more about him being gay than otherwise. Jesus singles out John as the beloved disciple, the special one, the one who should be son to Jesus own mother.
"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home."

I'm inclined to believe he was gay. His elevation to godhood gets in the way of standard conclusions. The simple clause - whom he loved - might as well have been written in blood to draw our attention to a dying Christ and a mention of a man he loved. Surely he loved all his apostles, but there is a love that dare not speak its name. And this fits the picture perfectly.

User avatar
Difflugia
Guru
Posts: 2287
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 1832 times
Been thanked: 1356 times

Re: Was Jesus Gay?

Post #50

Post by Difflugia »

Danmark wrote:There is no record of marriage, children, or a special female friendship anything akin to the clear references to John, the beloved disciple.
That's true of all the disciples except Peter and his wife was only mentioned indirectly.

Jesus didn't just "love" John (if the references even mean John), but also loved Martha, her sister and Lazarus (John 11:5). If John's Gospel used "loved" as a coded reference to lovers in a romantic or erotic sense, then it sounds like Jesus was beyond mundane things like plumbing when choosing his special friends.

You know, John's Gospel is also the one that implied that Jesus could make changes to himself that made him unrecognizable to both friends and crowds. Maybe water into wine was just the trick that got the party going and he had better tricks for after everyone had loosened up a bit.

Post Reply