Does Paul think asexuality is the most righteous path?

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jgh7

Does Paul think asexuality is the most righteous path?

Post #1

Post by jgh7 »

I'm putting in a rather large quote from 1 Corinthians 7 so as to not take anything out of context. This is from Paul. I have bolded parts that lead me to my interpretation.

7 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.� 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

---------

First a definition: Asexual: without sexual feelings or associations

It is my interpretation that Paul is asexual, feels that this is the best way to be, and wishes that others were like this but understands that they are not.

My first bolded part leads to me believe that one of the main reasons Paul thought to engage in sex (properly under marriage) is to avoid engaging in sexual immorality. The second bolded part reemphasizes this notion since he points out people's lack of self control. It also shows that this is Paul's personal belief (not necessarily from God) and that he wishes people were like him (unmarried and abstinent). The final bolded part is yet another emphasis of the same thing. Paul says it's good for unmarried to stay that way, but if they can't control themselves they should marry.

What do you make of all this?

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Post #11

Post by brianbbs67 »

marco wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: I have thought this of Paul. The OKJ , I believe says chaste like him. I think that is against our natural state of being. If it worked for Paul, fine. I don't think God ever intended for us to live like that in general, as He made us male and female.

That is very true and you politely refrain from saying Paul was wrong to dispense such advice. He may have been expert in dealing with resurrected bodies but on matters of sexuality it would have been more prudent for him to do what he advised women to do in churches: shut up.
That made me chuckle. I need to learn the old greek before I can say something completely valid against Paul. But, reading the English he is to have said, Duplicitous comes to mind. By that, i mean, he seems to contradict himself....as if both sides of his mouth have different messages.

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Re: Does Paul think asexuality is the most righteous path?

Post #12

Post by Wootah »

marco wrote:
jgh7 wrote:
7 I wish that all of you were as I am[/b]. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
Let us call things what they are. Paul is not a medical encyclopedia; he comes across as a self-righteous prude. God forbid that we have a nation of Pauls, which would be three degrees worse than a nation of ayatollahs.

Paul views sexuality as sinful, per se. It isn't. Trying to make excuses for the silly man is blowing bubbles into the air. We might misread the passage in Acts, about the unfortnate young man Eutychus who had an encounter with Paul:

" Paul went down, threw himself on the young man and put his arms around him."

Of course when we read this we might be surprised that the same Paul had urged restraint, and then we discover there was nothing amorous in Paul's act - he was merely raising the young man from the dead.

We can take that with the same pinch of salt with which we take his advice.
This applies to many similar posts in this thread. How do you know you are not transferring your own views onto Paul?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #13

Post by Wootah »

brianbbs67 wrote:
marco wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: I have thought this of Paul. The OKJ , I believe says chaste like him. I think that is against our natural state of being. If it worked for Paul, fine. I don't think God ever intended for us to live like that in general, as He made us male and female.

That is very true and you politely refrain from saying Paul was wrong to dispense such advice. He may have been expert in dealing with resurrected bodies but on matters of sexuality it would have been more prudent for him to do what he advised women to do in churches: shut up.
That made me chuckle. I need to learn the old greek before I can say something completely valid against Paul. But, reading the English he is to have said, Duplicitous comes to mind. By that, i mean, he seems to contradict himself....as if both sides of his mouth have different messages.
Is this thread being used for debate or ad hominems? Does Marco even know what you mean?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: Does Paul think asexuality is the most righteous path?

Post #14

Post by nolidad »

[Replying to dio9]

The highest call for serving God is to serve HIm in teh capacity He calls you in!

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Post #15

Post by nolidad »

2timothy316 wrote: The key is noted in verse 8. "But if they cannot control themselves". Control of one's self don't mean asexuality. I means if a person's need for physical touch in a sexual manner can't be controlled such without it would lead them to an unhealthy lifestyle then by all means get married.

I know people from both side and in the middle of these kinds of feelings. I know of people that being without someone physically sends them into depression and even despair. I know of people that live with or without physical interaction. I also know of people that don't need it at all. I have never met anyone that can by shear willpower can go from one extreme to the other.

Paul is focused on the person that is vulnerable to despair. A person that is in despair is more likely to do whatever they need to do to escape that despair. Control is what Paul is talking about here and not trying to make somebody feel or not feel. He is noting that to preach full time like he does, being single is the best course not being asexual.

Also if the need for a sexaul mate is strong so that trying to be celibate makes one distracted by said desire- that is not a good place.

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Post #16

Post by marco »

Wootah wrote:
Is this thread being used for debate or ad hominems? Does Marco even know what you mean?
I haven't been aware of any ad hominem argument. I don't feel accused or personally attacked. And I am reasonably sure that Paul is being called hypocritical, an opinion that finds favour with me. He is also insufferably full of his own self-righteousness and occasionally does a fine impression of Uriah Heep.

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Post #17

Post by brianbbs67 »

Wootah wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
marco wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: I have thought this of Paul. The OKJ , I believe says chaste like him. I think that is against our natural state of being. If it worked for Paul, fine. I don't think God ever intended for us to live like that in general, as He made us male and female.

That is very true and you politely refrain from saying Paul was wrong to dispense such advice. He may have been expert in dealing with resurrected bodies but on matters of sexuality it would have been more prudent for him to do what he advised women to do in churches: shut up.
That made me chuckle. I need to learn the old greek before I can say something completely valid against Paul. But, reading the English he is to have said, Duplicitous comes to mind. By that, i mean, he seems to contradict himself....as if both sides of his mouth have different messages.
Is this thread being used for debate or ad hominems? Does Marco even know what you mean?
I was replying to Marco, not attacking anyone. Giving my opinion, which he seems to have understood. No slight meant.

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Re: Does Paul think asexuality is the most righteous path?

Post #18

Post by dio9 »

nolidad wrote: [Replying to dio9]

The highest call for serving God is to serve HIm in teh capacity He calls you in!
Since its all about loving , there are more avenues of loving, for developing loving relationships in a family than a celibacy. In a family one can love God and spouse and children reciprocally while a celibate can only love God reciprocally. Love in a family is both spiritual and substantial , while a celibates is only spiritual. In this sense The family embodies physical salvation as well as spiritual . When we unpack the two great commandments we are commanded to love both spiritually and substantially, God and our neighbor.

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Re: Does Paul think asexuality is the most righteous path?

Post #19

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to dio9]

I think family love to be one of the lowest points of love. If you can't love your family then you have no love but if you can only love your family how loving are you really?

Matthew 5:46-48 New International Version (NIV)
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Does Paul think asexuality is the most righteous path?

Post #20

Post by marco »

Wootah wrote:
I think family love to be one of the lowest points of love. If you can't love your family then you have no love but if you can only love your family how loving are you really?
One of the few places where Paul is sublime is his sermon on love. Family love is one of the greatest bonds there can be. Love of one's own will let us sacrifice willingly. And even in the animal kingdom you see this great bond.

One of the most destructive and dangerous loves is a person's alleged love for God. I don't believe this is love at all, but some sort of self-persuasion. Because of that awful love people are killed today on city streets to the cry that God is great.

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