Debating Christianity and Religion

Jesus' propagandists don't give us this detail.

So - as with a number of things - it becomes necessary to find what you want to find by using fancy words like "exegesis" and "hermeneutics".

Those who WANT him to have kept his loincloth on find:

However, as Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, he gave a new identity and purpose to celibacy (Mt 19:12). For Jesus, it was not a sign of barrenness but of mission (cf. 1 Cor 7). We know that Jesus consecrated his entire self in love to God the Father and dedicated himself wholly to the mission of spreading God’s kingdom. http://themiscellany.org/2017/07/11/why ... -celibate/

Those who WANT him to have had a sex life find:

Given ancient Jewish marital custom, it is simply unlikely that Jesus was unmarried, and he probably was assigned a wife long before he became an itinerant preacher and met up with male and female disciples on the road. I just find it hard to believe that this wandering rabbi and his gang of 12 surely horny men were unmarried and celibate. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-mo ... 69801.html

Did Jesus die a virgin ...?

Can one CHOOSE what one WANTS to be true ...?

Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.

Wootah wrote: Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.

So you hold the first not because you can present any evidence for it, but simply because it supports the view you hold. This degree of honest is most helpful and appreciated.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.

You might very well be right. Jesus, the worst human that has ever lived. Another honest admission few of his followers ever make.

Tcg wrote:

Wootah wrote: Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.

So you hold the first not because you can present any evidence for it, but simply because it supports the view you hold. This degree of honest is most helpful and appreciated.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.

You might very well be right. Jesus, the worst human that has ever lived. Another honest admission few of his followers ever make.

To be fair to me you are asking me to present evidence of a negative. If Jesus had sex then the onus is on the positive claim to show evidence. Correct?

I'm definitely in the Lord liar lunatic camp. If Jesus is not God then what an awful mind virus he created.

Wootah wrote:

Tcg wrote:

Wootah wrote: Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.

So you hold the first not because you can present any evidence for it, but simply because it supports the view you hold. This degree of honest is most helpful and appreciated.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.

You might very well be right. Jesus, the worst human that has ever lived. Another honest admission few of his followers ever make.

To be fair to me you are asking me to present evidence of a negative.

I didn't ask you to present anything. I agreed with your conclusion and praised you for your honesty.

Wootah wrote: Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.

Do you mean the second line literally? I can think of people who've done worse things than Jesus, and I don't consider them deities. What makes Jesus worse than say Hitler if he was never divine?

[Replying to post 6 by rikuoamero]

If he is just a man then he is the biggest conman in history, telling the world to believe in him or go to hell. He may well be preventing most of the world from knowing God as well.

Hitler was a vegetarian, he loved the environment and also loved his dog. He was one of many German WW1 soldiers that felt betrayed by the homeland and was clearly damaged from that experience.

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 6 by rikuoamero]

If he is just a man then he is the biggest conman in history, telling the world to believe in him or go to hell. He may well be preventing most of the world from knowing God as well.

Hitler was a vegetarian, he loved the environment and also loved his dog. He was one of many German WW1 soldiers that felt betrayed by the homeland and was clearly damaged from that experience.

Assuming for the sake of argument Jesus was a liar, how is it that this makes him worse than Hitler? H planned and enacted the Holocaust. I think mass murder counts for worse than lying, how about you?

[Replying to post 8 by rikuoamero]

Fair enough. Happy to concede I was too hyperbolic before (for now ).

[Replying to StuartJ]

Those who WANT him to have kept his loincloth on find:

However, as Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, he gave a new identity and purpose to celibacy (Mt 19:12). For Jesus, it was not a sign of barrenness but of mission (cf. 1 Cor 7). We know that Jesus consecrated his entire self in love to God the Father and dedicated himself wholly to the mission of spreading God’s kingdom. http://themiscellany.org/2017/07/11/why ... -celibate/

Those who WANT him to have had a sex life find:

Given ancient Jewish marital custom, it is simply unlikely that Jesus was unmarried, and he probably was assigned a wife long before he became an itinerant preacher and met up with male and female disciples on the road. I just find it hard to believe that this wandering rabbi and his gang of 12 surely horny men were unmarried and celibate. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-mo ... -low_b_516...

Uuummm . . . first it might be important to notice that the first example of the probability of Jesus being unmarried is evidence from Scripture itself. The second example of Jesus perhaps being married is from the Huffington Post.

Did Jesus die a virgin ...?

Yes.

Can one CHOOSE what one WANTS to be true ...?

No.


First, Scripture NEVER mentions Jesus being married. There are also no historical record/evidence of Jesus being married. There is no mention of Jesus having children, etc. So, why in the world would one think that He is? Because most men do marry? Uuummm . . . Jesus as was made evident was not most men.


As for the Huffpo article, “I just find it hard to believe that this wandering rabbi and his gang of 12 surely horny men were unmarried and celibate.� Simply proves how clues the Huffington Post is. Not to mention uneducated and ignorant. It is no secret that most of the Apostles were likely married. So, that is quite the ignorant comment.


*********




It appears that all of the Apostles, except for the young St. John, were married when the Lord Jesus called them to Himself. For ex¬ample, we know that Peter was married because Jesus healed his mother-in-law (Mt 8:14).

https://themiscellany.org/2017/10/17/we ... s-married/

It is likely either their wives traveled and followed Jesus with them or they went off with Jesus on this new mission while making sure their wives were cared and provided for.

What is so difficult to believe about that?

And to comment a little further on the question: “Can one CHOOSE what one WANTS to be true ...?� No, it would be illogical to think so. Truth is Truth. We don’t choose it. It just IS.

Hmmmm . . . I suppose if someone wasn’t sure . . . I mean if someone had questions like was Jesus a virgin/was He married that they wanted answered, it might make sense if they turned to His Church, who He gave authority.

And when we do . . . we see that His Church says Jesus never married. Gee, you mean the Church Jesus established? You mean the Church who gave us the Bible? That Church says Jesus never married? Well, I would think she might know a little more than the Huffington Post.