Did Jesus Die a Virgin ...?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
StuartJ
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:46 am
Location: Australia
Been thanked: 1 time

Did Jesus Die a Virgin ...?

Post #1

Post by StuartJ »

Jesus' propagandists don't give us this detail.

So - as with a number of things - it becomes necessary to find what you want to find by using fancy words like "exegesis" and "hermeneutics".

Those who WANT him to have kept his loincloth on find:

However, as Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, he gave a new identity and purpose to celibacy (Mt 19:12). For Jesus, it was not a sign of barrenness but of mission (cf. 1 Cor 7). We know that Jesus consecrated his entire self in love to God the Father and dedicated himself wholly to the mission of spreading God’s kingdom. http://themiscellany.org/2017/07/11/why ... -celibate/

Those who WANT him to have had a sex life find:

Given ancient Jewish marital custom, it is simply unlikely that Jesus was unmarried, and he probably was assigned a wife long before he became an itinerant preacher and met up with male and female disciples on the road. I just find it hard to believe that this wandering rabbi and his gang of 12 surely horny men were unmarried and celibate. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-mo ... 69801.html

Did Jesus die a virgin ...?

Can one CHOOSE what one WANTS to be true ...?
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9136
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 185 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Post #2

Post by Wootah »

Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8487
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2137 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Post #3

Post by Tcg »

Wootah wrote: Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.
So you hold the first not because you can present any evidence for it, but simply because it supports the view you hold. This degree of honest is most helpful and appreciated.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.
You might very well be right. Jesus, the worst human that has ever lived. Another honest admission few of his followers ever make.

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9136
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 185 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Post #4

Post by Wootah »

Tcg wrote:
Wootah wrote: Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.
So you hold the first not because you can present any evidence for it, but simply because it supports the view you hold. This degree of honest is most helpful and appreciated.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.
You might very well be right. Jesus, the worst human that has ever lived. Another honest admission few of his followers ever make.
To be fair to me you are asking me to present evidence of a negative. If Jesus had sex then the onus is on the positive claim to show evidence. Correct?

I'm definitely in the Lord liar lunatic camp. If Jesus is not God then what an awful mind virus he created.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8487
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2137 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Post #5

Post by Tcg »

Wootah wrote:
Tcg wrote:
Wootah wrote: Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.
So you hold the first not because you can present any evidence for it, but simply because it supports the view you hold. This degree of honest is most helpful and appreciated.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.
You might very well be right. Jesus, the worst human that has ever lived. Another honest admission few of his followers ever make.
To be fair to me you are asking me to present evidence of a negative.
I didn't ask you to present anything. I agreed with your conclusion and praised you for your honesty.

User avatar
rikuoamero
Under Probation
Posts: 6707
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:06 pm
Been thanked: 4 times

Post #6

Post by rikuoamero »

Wootah wrote: Which view deifies Christ? Surely the first and not the second.

I personally can't think of a worse human being than Jesus if he was just a man.
Do you mean the second line literally? I can think of people who've done worse things than Jesus, and I don't consider them deities. What makes Jesus worse than say Hitler if he was never divine?
Image

Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9136
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 185 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Post #7

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 6 by rikuoamero]

If he is just a man then he is the biggest conman in history, telling the world to believe in him or go to hell. He may well be preventing most of the world from knowing God as well.

Hitler was a vegetarian, he loved the environment and also loved his dog. He was one of many German WW1 soldiers that felt betrayed by the homeland and was clearly damaged from that experience.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
rikuoamero
Under Probation
Posts: 6707
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:06 pm
Been thanked: 4 times

Post #8

Post by rikuoamero »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 6 by rikuoamero]

If he is just a man then he is the biggest conman in history, telling the world to believe in him or go to hell. He may well be preventing most of the world from knowing God as well.

Hitler was a vegetarian, he loved the environment and also loved his dog. He was one of many German WW1 soldiers that felt betrayed by the homeland and was clearly damaged from that experience.
Assuming for the sake of argument Jesus was a liar, how is it that this makes him worse than Hitler? H planned and enacted the Holocaust. I think mass murder counts for worse than lying, how about you?
Image

Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9136
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 185 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Post #9

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 8 by rikuoamero]

Fair enough. Happy to concede I was too hyperbolic before (for now :)).
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

RightReason
Under Probation
Posts: 1569
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 6:26 pm
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Did Jesus Die a Virgin ...?

Post #10

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to StuartJ]
Those who WANT him to have kept his loincloth on find:

However, as Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, he gave a new identity and purpose to celibacy (Mt 19:12). For Jesus, it was not a sign of barrenness but of mission (cf. 1 Cor 7). We know that Jesus consecrated his entire self in love to God the Father and dedicated himself wholly to the mission of spreading God’s kingdom. http://themiscellany.org/2017/07/11/why ... -celibate/

Those who WANT him to have had a sex life find:

Given ancient Jewish marital custom, it is simply unlikely that Jesus was unmarried, and he probably was assigned a wife long before he became an itinerant preacher and met up with male and female disciples on the road. I just find it hard to believe that this wandering rabbi and his gang of 12 surely horny men were unmarried and celibate. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-mo ... -low_b_516...

Uuummm . . . first it might be important to notice that the first example of the probability of Jesus being unmarried is evidence from Scripture itself. The second example of Jesus perhaps being married is from the Huffington Post.

Did Jesus die a virgin ...?
Yes.

Can one CHOOSE what one WANTS to be true ...?
No.


First, Scripture NEVER mentions Jesus being married. There are also no historical record/evidence of Jesus being married. There is no mention of Jesus having children, etc. So, why in the world would one think that He is? Because most men do marry? Uuummm . . . Jesus as was made evident was not most men.


As for the Huffpo article, “I just find it hard to believe that this wandering rabbi and his gang of 12 surely horny men were unmarried and celibate.� Simply proves how clues the Huffington Post is. Not to mention uneducated and ignorant. It is no secret that most of the Apostles were likely married. So, that is quite the ignorant comment.


*********




It appears that all of the Apostles, except for the young St. John, were married when the Lord Jesus called them to Himself. For ex¬ample, we know that Peter was married because Jesus healed his mother-in-law (Mt 8:14).

https://themiscellany.org/2017/10/17/we ... s-married/

It is likely either their wives traveled and followed Jesus with them or they went off with Jesus on this new mission while making sure their wives were cared and provided for.

What is so difficult to believe about that?

And to comment a little further on the question: “Can one CHOOSE what one WANTS to be true ...?� No, it would be illogical to think so. Truth is Truth. We don’t choose it. It just IS.

Hmmmm . . . I suppose if someone wasn’t sure . . . I mean if someone had questions like was Jesus a virgin/was He married that they wanted answered, it might make sense if they turned to His Church, who He gave authority.

And when we do . . . we see that His Church says Jesus never married. Gee, you mean the Church Jesus established? You mean the Church who gave us the Bible? That Church says Jesus never married? Well, I would think she might know a little more than the Huffington Post. O:)

Post Reply