Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

[Jagella]

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

I was inspired to broach this topic after reading a column in the January 2020 issue of Scientific American. The column written by the editors is entitled Time's Up for "Anti-Gay Therapy." According to those editors:

Although medical and psychological associations have asked explicitly that Congress and state governments ban anti-gay conversion (by Christians), there has been a backlash from (Christian) groups like the Liberty Council, which promotes "evangelical values."

The column condemns the "detestable practice" of the attempt by many Christians to alter a person's homosexuality because the practice does "irreparable harm" to people. Forty-two percent of a subgroup who have had this "therapy" inflicted on them have committed suicide.

[Divine Insight]

And that's why I haunt this forum. I want to expose Christianity for the harm it does to innocent people. I do not want innocent people harmed needlessly.

I agree. Unfortunately Christians don't even realize the harm they cause. They are totally blind to it.

I also would like people to realize that the religion is based on utter nonsense. It shouldn't even be given any respect at all. It's about a bigoted jealous God who does extremely stupid things like arranging to have himself brutally nailed to a pole to serve as a scapegoat for sin. How utterly absurd is that?

Sin is supposed to be a choice, but gays and lesbians do not choose to be homosexual. They are born that way. If any gods exist, then they created gays and lesbians.

Exactly. What sense would it make for people to pretend to be attracted to others of their own sex if it wasn't true?

Again, this requires extreme refusal to acknowledge reality by the theists. What would be the motivation for anyone to pretend to be gay if it wasn't real?

In my opinion hating something or somebody isn't really immoral. We feel the way we feel! Some things should be hated. I hate anti-gay cruelty. Many Christians not only are OK with gay bashing but would denounce me for my "hatred" of it.

Agreed. There are things worthy of being hated. Christianity being one of those things. Although there wouldn't be any point in hating Christians, because they didn't create the religion. They fell victim to it.

As a good analogy, we might hate cancer, but that doesn't cause us to hate people who become victims of cancer.

In fact, that's actually a perfect analogy, because Christianity is indeed a cancer and Christians are simply people who have been infected by it.

[Peds nurse]

Hi Peds. As you may know I've been away from this forum at least for awhile because I had some disagreements with the mods and wanted to do other things. When I saw the article I mentioned in the OP, though, I had to come back and say something about what it reported.

Actually, I have been away myself, so I had no idea there was a disagreement. I am glad you worked it out though. There are some great moderators here.

So, the debate question is, do we as Christians, hate gays? If that is the case, then the answer is no, for me personally anyway.

Do you oppose the gay-bashing practiced by many Christians? Their inspiration is the Bible. You really can't have it both ways: if you oppose gay bashing, then you cannot sensibly base your morals in the Bible.

I do not bash gays. I am a Bible thumpin' Christian. I have never read where it tells us to bash gays. I do read where it says to love God and love others. We have a lesbian woman that works in our home who helps with our autistic child. I just love her! She is so great with our 11 year old. Have you ever thought that maybe....just maybe....the all or none approach might lead to wrong conclusions?

The debate could also be, do we support therapy for gays in hopes it will change their gender preference(conversion therapy)? The answer for me is that if a person seeks therapeutic services for any reason, that reason is between the therapist and the person receiving services. One cannot go to therapy and it do any good at all if they are not invested for themselves.

If that "therapy" is driving people to commit suicide, then I think it's time it is stopped. If Christians blindly insist on maintaining that homosexuality is evil because their religion tells them it is, then the tragedy will continue.

Did you read that therapy is banned in most states? Also, come to find out, the guy that invented that therapy is gay! Some things are not as they seem. All people who claim to be Christian do not always act accordingly. I suppose that can be said for most people in any arena.

wishing you well!

[otseng]

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

No, I do not support hatred for gays.

But, it depends on what "hatred" means. Just because I do not approve of homosexual sex does not mean I hate gays. Just because I believe the Bible condemns homosexual sex does not mean I hate gays.

Unfortunately, society likes to polarize people and so people are either categorized as embracing homosexuality or hating it. I do not believe it's productive to categorize things in such extremes.

I believe gay people should be respected and not ostracized. I believe we should not be so quick to judge others' sins. I believe Christians should do a better job of listening to and loving gay people.

Gay people are not the only sinners and their sins are no worse than mine. We are all equally moral failures in God's eyes and we all need redemption.

If a gay person wants to seek therapy in whatever form, then he should be free to seek it. However, if he does not want therapy, it is counterproductive to force it on him. So, the issue is not therapy, but in forced therapy. Forced therapy is wrong. Therapy that one chooses to do is acceptable.

[Tcg]

If a gay person wants to seek therapy in whatever form, then he should be free to seek it. However, if he does not want therapy, it is counterproductive to force it on him. So, the issue is not therapy, but in forced therapy. Forced therapy is wrong. Therapy that one chooses to do is acceptable.

So called "conversion therapy" has been shown to not only be ineffective, but to cause harm:

• The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity
  
  Some right-wing religious groups promote the concept that an individual can change their sexual orientation or gender identity, either through prayer or other religious efforts, or through so-called "reparative" or "conversion" therapy. The research on such efforts has disproven their efficacy, and also has indicated that they are affirmatively harmful. Beyond studies focused solely on reparative therapy, broader research clearly demonstrates the significant harm that societal prejudice and family rejection has on lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) people, particularly youth. Furthermore, there is significant anecdotal evidence of harm to LGBTQ people resulting from attempts to change their sexual orientation and gender identity. Based on this body of evidence, every major medical and mental health organization in the United States has issued a statement condemning the use of conversion therapy.
  
  https://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies- ... ve-therapy

This type of therapy is harmful even if an individual chooses it voluntarily and therefore should not be practiced. Thankfully, many states have laws to insure that it isn't.


Tcg

[SallyF]

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

No, I do not support hatred for gays.

But, it depends on what "hatred" means. Just because I do not approve of homosexual sex does not mean I hate gays. Just because I believe the Bible condemns homosexual sex does not mean I hate gays.

Unfortunately, society likes to polarize people and so people are either categorized as embracing homosexuality or hating it. I do not believe it's productive to categorize things in such extremes.

I believe gay people should be respected and not ostracized. I believe we should not be so quick to judge others' sins. I believe Christians should do a better job of listening to and loving gay people.

Gay people are not the only sinners and their sins are no worse than mine. We are all equally moral failures in God's eyes and we all need redemption.

If a gay person wants to seek therapy in whatever form, then he should be free to seek it. However, if he does not want therapy, it is counterproductive to force it on him. So, the issue is not therapy, but in forced therapy. Forced therapy is wrong. Therapy that one chooses to do is acceptable.

Your version of "God" - or the men who wrote the propaganda of this god - do not agree with you.

For your "God", homosexual men are not to be respected - or even simply ostracised - they are to be put to death.

For you to take a different view than your version of "God", you are claiming that you know better than your "God".

Or, like Atheists, perhaps you recognise that what you are reading in the "scriptures" is not the "Word of God" at all …

And you feel perfectly justified in cherry-picking and distorting it.



The bigoted propagandists who wrote this are VERY clear.

[Peds nurse]

Your version of "God" - or the men who wrote the propaganda of this god - do not agree with you.

For your "God", homosexual men are not to be respected - or even simply ostracised - they are to be put to death.

For you to take a different view than your version of "God", you are claiming that you know better than your "God".

Or, like Atheists, perhaps you recognise that what you are reading in the "scriptures" is not the "Word of God" at all …

And you feel perfectly justified in cherry-picking and distorting it.



The bigoted propagandists who wrote this are VERY clear.

[/quote]


Hi Sally!!

Can you please tell me where you find this in the New Testament? I understand there were laws in Old Testament....but why would we want to adhere to rules meant for a different people? Do we in America follow the laws in the Middle East? Asia?

[SallyF]

Your version of "God" - or the men who wrote the propaganda of this god - do not agree with you.

For your "God", homosexual men are not to be respected - or even simply ostracised - they are to be put to death.

For you to take a different view than your version of "God", you are claiming that you know better than your "God".

Or, like Atheists, perhaps you recognise that what you are reading in the "scriptures" is not the "Word of God" at all …

And you feel perfectly justified in cherry-picking and distorting it.



The bigoted propagandists who wrote this are VERY clear.

Hi Sally!!

Can you please tell me where you find this in the New Testament? I understand there were laws in Old Testament....but why would we want to adhere to rules meant for a different people? Do we in America follow the laws in the Middle East? Asia?[/quote]

Hi Ped …!

I'm not in the (United States of) America, but …



Looks like that OT stuff is taken pretty seriously in secular courts right there.

Christians add the Jesus character and the Holy Ghost to the Old Testament Jehovah Elohim version/s of "God".

If Jesus and the Holy Ghost are associated with the genocidal and bigoted Jehovah, then they are associated with this genocidal and bigoted Middle East scripture/propaganda.

Cherry-picking bits of nice morality out of the misanthropy of the biblical writings is one things, but cherry-picking away the entire Hebrew Bible upon which Christianity is founded is quite another.

[JehovahsWitness]

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

Otseng put it very well, not approving of an action isnt the same as hating the person that does that action. If someone wants to pursue therapy to deal with their homosexuality that should be their right, as long as the methods are ethically sound and he does so of his own free will.



JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[Peds nurse]

Your version of "God" - or the men who wrote the propaganda of this god - do not agree with you.

For your "God", homosexual men are not to be respected - or even simply ostracised - they are to be put to death.

For you to take a different view than your version of "God", you are claiming that you know better than your "God".

Or, like Atheists, perhaps you recognise that what you are reading in the "scriptures" is not the "Word of God" at all …

And you feel perfectly justified in cherry-picking and distorting it.



The bigoted propagandists who wrote this are VERY clear.

Hi Sally!!

Can you please tell me where you find this in the New Testament? I understand there were laws in Old Testament....but why would we want to adhere to rules meant for a different people? Do we in America follow the laws in the Middle East? Asia?

Hi Ped …!

I'm not in the (United States of) America, but …

Looks like that OT stuff is taken pretty seriously in secular courts right there.

Christians add the Jesus character and the Holy Ghost to the Old Testament Jehovah Elohim version/s of "God".

If Jesus and the Holy Ghost are associated with the genocidal and bigoted Jehovah, then they are associated with this genocidal and bigoted Middle East scripture/propaganda.

Cherry-picking bits of nice morality out of the misanthropy of the biblical writings is one things, but cherry-picking away the entire Hebrew Bible upon which Christianity is founded is quite another.

Thank you so much Sally for your reply!

The 10 Commandments are a part of the OT. Not much is said if we follow them because they mostly are personal. However, applying all of the OT laws to current situations, doesn't seem realistic. Mind you, I am not saying they didn't exist or that even some of them are hard to swallow. I am saying that cherry picking can go both ways. I have not seen debates on here on why we are not slaughtering animals or living in tents. Either we are held accountable to the entire law, or we are not. It is unfair to take out a couple of things from the OT and hold Christians accountable to them but not to others. It is the same God, but a new law is in effect. I realize you are not from the USA, but we don't go to back to the laws of segregation during slavery because those laws have changed. They are a part of history, which is important to know because it helps us to understand the journey of how we got to where we are now and we learn from the process and trials of others.

Not all Christians believe the same things, which I understand is confusing (rightly so). Some Christians hate....but really, we are called to love. Have you ever known someone who says they are something they are not? The Bible even says that some will come in Christ's name, but really they are wolves in sheep's clothing.

wishing you well!

[Jagella]

I do not bash gays. I am a Bible thumpin' Christian. I have never read where it tells us to bash gays.

If you've "thumped" the Bible, then you've read Leviticus 20:13:

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

And Romans 1:26-27:

...God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

It is likely that "the due penalty for their error" Paul refers to here for gays and lesbians is the death by stoning prescribed in Leviticus.

So you are correct that the Bible does not command that you bash gays. It tells us to kill them.

I do read where it says to love God and love others.

Whatever that "love" might be, it is a love that does not forbid putting gays and lesbians to death.

We have a lesbian woman that works in our home who helps with our autistic child. I just love her! She is so great with our 11 year old. Have you ever thought that maybe....just maybe....the all or none approach might lead to wrong conclusions?

You and this woman should read the Bible passages I have posted. That way you can both know where the persecution of gays and lesbians got it start. If you treat her well, then you do so out of modern, secular morality and not the Bible.

Did you read that therapy is banned in most states?

No. The article I cited in the OP states that thirty two states have failed to ban the practice. Conservative Christian groups are opposing the bans on anti-gay therapy.

Also, come to find out, the guy that invented that therapy is gay!

His name is McKrae Game, and he is disavowing his work against gays. He is asking for forgiveness and admitting that he was wrong.

All people who claim to be Christian do not always act accordingly.

And we are very fortunate for that!

Some things are not as they seem.

That's right, PN, and I have demonstrated you wrong on at least two of your claims. I'd like you to post now that most states do not ban Christian ant-gay conversion and need to. You also need to post that yes, the Bible does command cruelty toward gays and lesbians, and its a practice that needs to stop.