Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

[Jagella]

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

I was inspired to broach this topic after reading a column in the January 2020 issue of Scientific American. The column written by the editors is entitled Time's Up for "Anti-Gay Therapy." According to those editors:

Although medical and psychological associations have asked explicitly that Congress and state governments ban anti-gay conversion (by Christians), there has been a backlash from (Christian) groups like the Liberty Council, which promotes "evangelical values."

The column condemns the "detestable practice" of the attempt by many Christians to alter a person's homosexuality because the practice does "irreparable harm" to people. Forty-two percent of a subgroup who have had this "therapy" inflicted on them have committed suicide.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

Seems the only people that do that are those that 1) aren't secure enough in their faith &/or 2) are struggling with homosexuality themselves.

Rather or not it's a sin is immaterial here because my sin isn't your sin and vice versa. If it IS a sin, those who practice it are responsible for it. If it's NOT a sin, then get over it.
At any rate, live your life, I'll live mine - to each their own.
Why people make it more complicated than this is very telling of their own shortcomings.

[Peds nurse]

If you've "thumped" the Bible, then you've read Leviticus 20:13:

I have

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

And Romans 1:26-27:

...God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

It is likely that "the due penalty for their error" Paul refers to here for gays and lesbians is the death by stoning prescribed in Leviticus.

So you are correct that the Bible does not command that you bash gays. It tells us to kill them.

It is also just as likely that you could be wrong. It does not say to kill them, that is your interpretation. He gave them up to their sinful ways. The...before your quote is this:
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

There you have it! They didn't acknowledge God for who He is and instead, worshiped other things.

We have a lesbian woman that works in our home who helps with our autistic child. I just love her! She is so great with our 11 year old. Have you ever thought that maybe....just maybe....the all or none approach might lead to wrong conclusions?

You and this woman should read the Bible passages I have posted. That way you can both know where the persecution of gays and lesbians got it start. If you treat her well, then you do so out of modern, secular morality and not the Bible.

You assume much. It is not for you to say why I treat her right, for you cannot be the judge of my motives.

Did you read that therapy is banned in most states?

No. The article I cited in the OP states that thirty two states have failed to ban the practice. Conservative Christian groups are opposing the bans on anti-gay therapy.

Could it be that the article you cited was misleading?

Also, come to find out, the guy that invented that therapy is gay!

His name is McKrae Game, and he is disavowing his work against gays. He is asking for forgiveness and admitting that he was wrong.

And further proving my point that all who say they are acting in Christ's name can do so falsely.

Some things are not as they seem.

That's right, PN, and I have demonstrated you wrong on at least two of your claims. I'd like you to post now that most states do not ban Christian ant-gay conversion and need to. You also need to post that yes, the Bible does command cruelty toward gays and lesbians, and its a practice that needs to stop.

Here is the truth Jagella, I am not a great debater, so beating me at debating isn't exactly a great score. I am however, a lover of people, of all people. I do stand corrected as I did read the map wrong in what states ban conversion therapy, my apologies. Now, telling me what to post about Biblical issues is certainly not a smooth move on your part. I disagree with you on your interpretation of what the Bible says in Romans. This is debate, we don't have to agree. I certainly am alright with that. I hope that you can live with that too! I appreciate your passion.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 19 by Peds nurse]

It is the same God, but a new law is in effect.

No …

It's not the same god … and it's definitely not God with a capital G.

Jesus and the Holy Ghost are not nominated as "God" in the Jehovah Elohim mythology/propaganda/fable/scripture.

The Jesus propagandists did NOT write any "new law" in their propaganda/scripture.

Certain Christians today, I suggest, simple recognise - as we Atheists generally do - that the mythological god/s of the older writings were imagined as barbaric, genocidal bigots ...

or the men who wrote the "scriptures" were - because not a soul EVER demonstrates that "God" had anything to do with so much as a verse of it …

And certain Christians are embarrassed by their gay-hating "God the Father" …

And find ways to distance themselves from him.

Is that a cock I hear crowing …?

[Jagella]

No, I do not support hatred for gays.

It's amazing how open-minded everybody is nowadays. It wasn't always so. I wonder what has happened in the last fifty years or so.

But, it depends on what "hatred" means.

I am remiss in my misuse of words. I should have asked if the members here support persecution of gays and lesbians. As far as I'm concerned people have a right to feel any way they feel.

Just because I do not approve of homosexual sex does not mean I hate gays.

What do you mean by not approving of homosexual sex? Do you think gay sex should be outlawed?

Just because I believe the Bible condemns homosexual sex does not mean I hate gays.

Actually, the Bible condemns homosexuals who are caught in homosexual acts. They are to be put to death. Many Christians never repudiated that law.

Do yo repudiate the law in Leviticus 20:13 that prescribes death for men caught in homosexual acts?

Unfortunately, society likes to polarize people and so people are either categorized as embracing homosexuality or hating it. I do not believe it's productive to categorize things in such extremes.

I think it's productive to allow gays, lesbians, and transsexuals to live their lives free of stigma. Let them live and work in the mainstream of society granting them opportunity to make good lives for themselves. Allow same-sex marriage.

I believe we should not be so quick to judge others' sins.

I have no doubt that the whole idea of sin causes a lot of social and psychological problems.

We are all equally moral failures in God's eyes and we all need redemption.

I must disagree here. Most people are good most of the time. It's entirely possible to be a "moral success." I am. Christianity smears us as "moral failures" no matter what we do.

If a gay person wants to seek therapy in whatever form, then he should be free to seek it. However, if he does not want therapy, it is counterproductive to force it on him. So, the issue is not therapy, but in forced therapy. Forced therapy is wrong. Therapy that one chooses to do is acceptable.

Actually, therapists should be licensed by the government and their treatments approved by the FDA. The anti-gay therapy that is often "offered" to gays is not based on good science, so it's not a legitimate offer. People may want harmful drugs, so should we let them use them? Therapy is the same way. Just because some people want it doesn't mean we should allow it.

[Tcg]

If someone wants to pursue therapy to deal with their homosexuality that should be their right, as long as the methods are ethically sound and he does so of his own free will.

The methods are NOT ethically sound:

• Is conversion therapy harmful?
  
  Yes. The risks of conversion therapy extend far beyond its ineffectiveness, and the time and money wasted on “therapies� that don’t work. The American Psychiatric Association has clarified that “the potential risks of reparative therapy are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient.� The Pan American Health Organization, a regional office of the World Health Organization, concluded that conversion therapy, “lack[s] medical justification and represent[s] a serious threat to the health and well-being of affected people.�
  
  https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-in ... n-therapy/

These therapies are based on outdated prejudices against normal human behavior. This fact reveals that the Bible itself promotes outdated prejudices against normal human behavior.


Tcg

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 16 by Peds nurse]

I understand there were laws in Old Testament....but why would we want to adhere to rules meant for a different people?

I don't understand how God would have laws that demand gays in one group of people to be killed but not gays in other groups. Does that sound just? Why would God even condone such an action at all? If we move to the New Testament, Jesus speaks about adultery and divorce but not about homosexuality, so why is homosexuality the sin that seems to occupy Christian consciences so much?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 23 by SallyF]

Certain Christians today, I suggest, simple recognise - as we Atheists generally do - that the mythological god/s of the older writings were imagined as barbaric, genocidal bigots

The way I see it, the New Testament is an attempt to give God something of a makeover and shift the emphasis onto a kinder and more loving character in the form of the Jesus clone.

[Jagella]

Otseng put it very well, not approving of an action isnt the same as hating the person that does that action.

Strictly speaking, yes, it is possible to hate the sin yet love the sinner. In practice, however, it rarely turns out that way. We do tend to dislike those who act in ways that we dislike. If the Bible tells us that homosexuality is evil, then those who believe the Bible will likely see homosexuals as evil. I think it's safe to say that if there had never been a Bible, then there would be no anti-gay sentiments.

If someone wants to pursue therapy to deal with their homosexuality that should be their right, as long as the methods are ethically sound and he does so of his own free will.

In the case of Christian anti-gay "therapy," the science isn't sound. Such therapy is quackery, and should be banned as a threat to public health.

From 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New World Translation):

Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Categorizing homosexuals along with thieves and extortioners is not likely to inspire people to love them.

I've often wondered why Jehovah seems so obsessed with sex and confused about it. He mandates that young girls be married off against their will to men who have raped them, yet when two men have sex harming nobody, he wants to kill them!

[Tcg]

Can you please tell me where you find this in the New Testament?

The New Testament is even worse than the Old Testament, at least for those who accept the Christian mythology of life after death:

• 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Homosexuals in the Old Testament lost their temporary life. Homosexuals in the New Testament lose their everlasting life.

The New Testament is clearly more disgusting than the Old.


Tcg

[Goose]

• 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Homosexuals in the Old Testament lost their temporary life. Homosexuals [along with every other unrighteous person] in the New Testament [strike]lose their everlasting life[/strike][do not inherit the kingdom of God].

Fixed that for you.