the biggest problem: sex?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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cristian_gavrilescu
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the biggest problem: sex?

Post #1

Post by cristian_gavrilescu »

homosexuality, incest, pedophilia, zoophilia, necrophilia are forbidden, the sex must be done only between spouses, you can break up with your wife only if she committed adultery. God says: be fruitful and multiply. he doesn't say: make sex, he doesn't say: make love. the purpose of sex must be procreation. nevertheless, paul says to do your duty as a husband, to not fall into temptation, but he also says this: abstinence is the right way. bible quotes:
16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. (Exodus 22:16)
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Matthew 5:28)
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)
God says this:
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:28)
paul says this:
7 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. (1Corinthians 7:1-6)

this is my opinion, you have other?

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Miles
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Re: Re:

Post #11

Post by Miles »

SeekerofTruth wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:41 am [Replying to cristian_gavrilescu in post #5]

The verse you quoted, “If a man looks at a woman and lusts.....”, is improperly translated. The word woman is better translated wife. Christ didn’t speak against polygamy, or concubines because God didn’t forbid it. However He did forbid coveting your neighbour’s wife. This is the adultery in your heart Christ spoke of.
Prove it. Especially when both "woman" and "wife" are common interpretations of the source word "γυνή" [G1135] in Matthew and Mark; KJV.

Mat 1:24
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: G1135

Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman G1135 to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mar 10:12
And if a woman G1135 shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Mat 5:31
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, G1135 let him give her a writing of divorcement:

Mar 7:25
For a certain woman, G1135 whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

Mat 14:3For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife. G1135

. . . . And so on.

Strong's Concordance "woman" G1135: γυνή (gynē )

"The KJV translates Strong's G1135 in the following manner: women (129x), [58%] wife (92x). [42%]

Biblical Usage
1. a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow

2. a wife

A. of a betrothed woman"

My goodness, what a terrible burden would be placed on us if it was so sinful to merely be attracted to a beautiful female, so long she is single.
But lust is more than just attraction.

From biblestudytools.com

LUST: A strong craving or desire, often of a sexual nature.

And of course this is nothing like attraction:

attraction noun

at·​trac·​tion | \ ə-ˈtrak-shən
\
Definition of attraction

: the act, process, or power of attracting
: personal charm
: something that attracts or is intended to attract people by appealing to their desires and tastes

Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary

In fact, truthandfire.com makes the distinction between the two very clear when it says

"Of course sin has perverted all of this - twisting physical attraction into lust and physical intimacy is widely expressed through sexual immorality, but the Lord designed sex to be enjoyed in the context of marriage (Genesis 1:28, 2:24)."

.

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Re: Re:

Post #12

Post by SeekerofTruth »

Miles wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:23 pm
SeekerofTruth wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:41 am [Replying to cristian_gavrilescu in post #5]

The verse you quoted, “If a man looks at a woman and lusts.....”, is improperly translated. The word woman is better translated wife. Christ didn’t speak against polygamy, or concubines because God didn’t forbid it. However He did forbid coveting your neighbour’s wife. This is the adultery in your heart Christ spoke of.
Prove it. Especially when both "woman" and "wife" are common interpretations of the source word "γυνή" [G1135] in Matthew and Mark; KJV.

Mat 1:24
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: G1135

Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman G1135 to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mar 10:12
And if a woman G1135 shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Mat 5:31
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, G1135 let him give her a writing of divorcement:

Mar 7:25
For a certain woman, G1135 whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

Mat 14:3For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife. G1135

. . . . And so on.

Strong's Concordance "woman" G1135: γυνή (gynē )

"The KJV translates Strong's G1135 in the following manner: women (129x), [58%] wife (92x). [42%]

Biblical Usage
1. a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow

2. a wife

A. of a betrothed woman"

My goodness, what a terrible burden would be placed on us if it was so sinful to merely be attracted to a beautiful female, so long she is single.
But lust is more than just attraction.

From biblestudytools.com

LUST: A strong craving or desire, often of a sexual nature.

And of course this is nothing like attraction:

attraction noun

at·​trac·​tion | \ ə-ˈtrak-shən
\
Definition of attraction

: the act, process, or power of attracting
: personal charm
: something that attracts or is intended to attract people by appealing to their desires and tastes

Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary

In fact, truthandfire.com makes the distinction between the two very clear when it says

"Of course sin has perverted all of this - twisting physical attraction into lust and physical intimacy is widely expressed through sexual immorality, but the Lord designed sex to be enjoyed in the context of marriage (Genesis 1:28, 2:24)."

.
In each scenario you gave the “woman” was married (presumably the one with a daughter). I’m not saying men should go about ogling every virgin. I’m just saying Christ didn’t condemn every man with as active libido of committing sin punishable by death. Men could have many wives and even sex slaves under the Law. What wasn’t permitted is adultery, sleeping with a married woman. Christ merely pointed out that even lusting after her was covetousness equal to adultery in God’s eyes. As much as we like to twist scripture, marriage wasn’t about legitimate sex. That’s what the church made it. Marriage was more about inheritance and lineage. Women were treated more like property according to the Law. The Christian is apart from the Law. We are not to be preoccupied with sexual pleasures. However we are also flesh. Because we are spirit born our souls entwine as with Christ. That is how there is not two, there is one. The husband and wife are singular. Christ and the Church are singular.

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Re: Re:

Post #13

Post by Miles »

SeekerofTruth wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:45 pm
Miles wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:23 pm
SeekerofTruth wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:41 am [Replying to cristian_gavrilescu in post #5]

The verse you quoted, “If a man looks at a woman and lusts.....”, is improperly translated. The word woman is better translated wife. Christ didn’t speak against polygamy, or concubines because God didn’t forbid it. However He did forbid coveting your neighbour’s wife. This is the adultery in your heart Christ spoke of.
Prove it. Especially when both "woman" and "wife" are common interpretations of the source word "γυνή" [G1135] in Matthew and Mark; KJV.

Mat 1:24
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: G1135

Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman G1135 to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mar 10:12
And if a woman G1135 shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Mat 5:31
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, G1135 let him give her a writing of divorcement:

Mar 7:25
For a certain woman, G1135 whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

Mat 14:3For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife. G1135

. . . . And so on.

Strong's Concordance "woman" G1135: γυνή (gynē )

"The KJV translates Strong's G1135 in the following manner: women (129x), [58%] wife (92x). [42%]

Biblical Usage
1. a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow

2. a wife

A. of a betrothed woman"

My goodness, what a terrible burden would be placed on us if it was so sinful to merely be attracted to a beautiful female, so long she is single.
But lust is more than just attraction.

From biblestudytools.com

LUST: A strong craving or desire, often of a sexual nature.

And of course this is nothing like attraction:

attraction noun

at·​trac·​tion | \ ə-ˈtrak-shən
\
Definition of attraction

: the act, process, or power of attracting
: personal charm
: something that attracts or is intended to attract people by appealing to their desires and tastes

Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary

In fact, truthandfire.com makes the distinction between the two very clear when it says

"Of course sin has perverted all of this - twisting physical attraction into lust and physical intimacy is widely expressed through sexual immorality, but the Lord designed sex to be enjoyed in the context of marriage (Genesis 1:28, 2:24)."

.
In each scenario you gave the “woman” was married (presumably the one with a daughter).
Not at all. As I posted:

Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman G1135 to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Additionally we have . . . .

Mat 9:22
But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman G1135 was made whole from that hour.

Mat 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women G1135 there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Mar 5:25
And a certain woman, G1135 which had an issue of blood twelve years,

I’m just saying Christ didn’t condemn every man with as active libido of committing sin punishable by death.
But your main point is

"If a man looks at a woman and lusts.....”, is improperly translated. that "The word woman is better translated wife". Yet you provide no evidence why this should be.
Men could have many wives and even sex slaves under the Law. What wasn’t permitted is adultery, sleeping with a married woman.
OR a married man sleeping with anyone else.

Adultery: "is sexual relations in which at least one participant is married to someone else."
Source: Wikibooks [The Ten Commandments]


.

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Re: the biggest problem: sex?

Post #14

Post by nobspeople »

Miles wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:37 pm
Onarta wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:20 pm We all have to be faithful to our wives for sure. I totally agree with what our religion dictates and demands. After all we are all here for a short period of time, so the next path is what we should care of.
What I find interesting is that god doesn't condemn masturbation, oral sex, or anal sex among two females or among those of opposite sex, before or after marriage.



.
I was told, when I was younger, God was against masturbation. I don't remember the exact verse, but it was something to do with 'spilling your seed on the ground' or the like, and was used, at least towards me, as a means of wasting a potential life. So some do claim God is against masturbation
Be them right or wrong....?
I always found it odd (but not so odd) that God seems to be adverse to man-on-man sex, but doesn't seem to mind woman-on-woman sex. This is echoed in many societies today, where gay men are looked down upon while gay women seem to get more of a 'free pass'. I'd wager it has to do with men, who were in control 'back in the bible days', enjoying woman on woman sex but publicly saying man on man sex is 'ew'.
That said, from my experience, many 'straight' married men have enjoyed some version of man on man sex at some point in their lives - some still do.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: the biggest problem: sex?

Post #15

Post by Miles »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:38 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:37 pm
Onarta wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:20 pm We all have to be faithful to our wives for sure. I totally agree with what our religion dictates and demands. After all we are all here for a short period of time, so the next path is what we should care of.
What I find interesting is that god doesn't condemn masturbation, oral sex, or anal sex among two females or among those of opposite sex, before or after marriage.



.
I was told, when I was younger, God was against masturbation. I don't remember the exact verse, but it was something to do with 'spilling your seed on the ground' or the like, and was used, at least towards me, as a means of wasting a potential life. So some do claim God is against masturbation
Be them right or wrong....?
I've heard the same thing about spilling one's seed in reference to Genesis 38:8–10, where Onan pulls out of his brother's wife before ejaculating (he was directed to have sex with her), which, of course, isn't considered masturbation, but coitus interruptus.
I always found it odd (but not so odd) that God seems to be adverse to man-on-man sex, but doesn't seem to mind woman-on-woman sex.
At least not to the extent he does man-on-man sex where he wants men killed for engaging in it. In Romans 1:26-27 he finds female homosexual activity simply "contrary to nature" and lets it go at that.

"For this reason God gave them up to dishonourable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error"

This is echoed in many societies today, where gay men are looked down upon while gay women seem to get more of a 'free pass'. I'd wager it has to do with men, who were in control 'back in the bible days', enjoying woman on woman sex but publicly saying man on man sex is 'ew'.
That said, from my experience, many 'straight' married men have enjoyed some version of man on man sex at some point in their lives - some still do.
Obviously you've been exposed to a much more diverse population of men than I have.


,

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Re: the biggest problem: sex?

Post #16

Post by Purple Knight »

cristian_gavrilescu wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 5:04 am"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery"
Question: What does this mean?

The way I read this, he's... locking his wife in the closet... and only taking her out when he wants to do it...? And it's adultery because she's more of a sex toy than a wife, making him not really her husband, so she's more of a captive prostitute...?

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Re: the biggest problem: sex?

Post #17

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Miles in post #16]
Obviously you've been exposed to a much more diverse population of men than I have.
People would be surprised if they knew what went on inside the head of many a man. There's a whole subset of men like this. People search them out. Happens way more often than most people think.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: the biggest problem: sex?

Post #18

Post by Miles »

Sondiana wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:13 am I also think that sex is the cause of some of the biggest problems that we are facing nowadays.
Not at all sure what big problems you see that are caused by sex, but according to the Borgen Project, a nonprofit organization that is addressing poverty and hunger and working towards ending them.”

The 10 Biggest Issues in the World are:


1. Poverty. More than 70 percent of the people in the world own less than $10,000 — or roughly 3 percent of total wealth in the world. Geographically, the story is similar. A lack of global emphasis on foreign aid, conflict and political factors have kept poverty as a driving factor. In the last two decades, however, things have started to improve. The “middle class” has doubled in size from seven to thirteen percent.

2. Religious Conflict & War. Political conflict has drastically increased over the years. Terrorism and the rise of religiously-motivated insurgent groups have forced the hand of several governments. As a result, defense spending around the world has risen steadily since 1995 to $1.7 trillion. While terrorism may be on the rise, the good news is that diplomacy and peace efforts have decreased the number of civil wars and intra-state conflicts around the world from 16 per 100,000 to about 1 per 100,000.

3.
Political Polarization. Political polarization has skyrocketed with the rise of social movements across the world. States have experienced internal strife from events such as BREXIT or the U.S. election of President Donald Trump. PEW claims that the U.S., specifically, has become more polarized than ever. Since 2004, the U.S. has reportedly seen a rise in political partisanship. Bi-partisan groups and organizations, such as the Bipartisan Policy Center, have been actively working to promote a more collaborative political arena.

4. Government Accountability. Throughout the world, political scandals have led to a distrust of government. Specifically, in the U.S., reports say only a third of Americans trust the government to “do what is right.” Advancements in tech and China’s new surveillance policy do not help. Skepticism on such issues has led to a rise in social movements which have been key in influencing policy.

5. Education. While education has significantly improved in the last century, there still remains a lot of work to be done. Inequality between genders in specific parts of the world has emerged as a large part of the question. The Malala Fund reports 130 million girls across the world lack proper access to schooling and actively addresses this issue through advocacy.

6. Food and Water. Currently, 1 in 9 people lack access to clean water across the world and the same ratio are malnourished. The emergence of new technology in agriculture and increased awareness, however, has improved conditions. Several organizations, such as the World Health Organization (WHO), are addressing the issue on the ground and through political influence.

7. Health in Developing Nations. Statistics has widely shown that aside from malnourishment, access to clean and affordable living conditions has lagged in the developed world. Life expectancy in developing nations is on average 14 years behind developed nations’. Overall health, however, has increased over the years, thanks to organizations such as WHO.

8. Credit Access. One of the driving factors in continued poverty is the lack of access to credit. Without stable financial services, it becomes difficult for developing nations to grow at a sustained rate economically. Studies show that access to credit can improve economic prospects.

9. Discrimination. Discrimination covers a wide breadth of issues and takes several forms. Recently, in light of new social movements, it has garnered more attention. Wage gap issues, income inequality, education wage premiums and other problems have appeared at the forefront of social movements. These movements have shown promise for change – the #MeToo movement has brought several employers to justice.

10. Physical fitness. Obesity has become a global issue. The lack of physical fitness programs and extra-curriculars have created significant issues that could affect future health. Recently, the number has exceeded 39 percent of individuals around the world being overweight and 13 percent being obese. Efforts by the government and even media have started to turn the tide. Professional organizations such as the NFL have implemented Play60 programs to emphasize nutrition and fitness from a young age.
source



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Re: the biggest problem: sex?

Post #19

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Miles wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:14 am
Sondiana wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:13 am I also think that sex is the cause of some of the biggest problems that we are facing nowadays.
Not at all sure what big problems you see that are caused by sex,...
Well, the conservatives among us would cite abortion as a significant problem caused by sex. I did some research into this a couple of years ago, and it seems that the deaths by abortion are approximately equal in number to the deaths by hunger, and hunger related complications. Make of that what you will.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Non omnes qui errant pereunt
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