God's Distaste For Sex

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Miles
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God's Distaste For Sex

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.


God really comes down on just about everything that has to do with sexuality.



1) NAKEDNESS

Genesis 2:25
The man and his wife were naked, but they were not ashamed.

But after eating the apple;

Genesis 3:7
At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves.

___________________

2) HOMOSEXUAL SEX

Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

INCLUDING WOMEN although to a far lesser extent.

Romans 1:26
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
___________________

3) ORAL and ANAL SEX


Romans 1:26-27:
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Of course this doesn't say a thing about men and women having anal or oral sex with each other, but that's the way most Fundamentalists Christians like to read it and similar verses. Why? I'll let them answer that.

___________________

4) BESTIALITY

Exodus 22:19
19 You must not allow anyone to have sexual relations with an animal. If this happens, that person must be killed.

___________________

5) FORNICATION

1 Corinthians 7:2
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Fornication: "generally; consensual sexual intercourse between two people not married to each other. An example of fornication is sexual intercourse between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman."

____________________

6) ADULTERY

Exodus 20:14
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

____________________

7) SEXUAL INTERCOURSE

Even good ol' legal-in-all-fifty-states male/female sexual intercourse is frowned upon

1 Corinthians 7:1
Now for the matters you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.

______________________

8) ADULTERY BY PROXY

And one doesn't even have to participate in sex to be at fault

Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

________________________

9) MASTURBATION


Although masturbation isn't frowned upon (other than by Christian fundamentalists who read vague verses so as to include it,) semen is considered to be a fairly horrible substance, unless, of course, it finds its way into the vagina of one's wife.

Leviticus 15:16-17
“If a man has an emission of semen, [assumed to be regardless of the cause] he shall bathe his whole body in water and be unclean until the evening. And every garment and every skin on which the semen comes shall be washed with water and be unclean until the evening.

_____________________________

10) MENSTRUAL FLUIDS

And, of course, for women their situation is even worse.

Leviticus 15:19
19 If a woman has a discharge from her monthly time of bleeding, she will be unclean for seven days. Anyone who touches her will be unclean until evening.
which can be passed along to menfolk


A burden that can be passed along to men.

Leviticus 15:24
24 If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her monthly time of bleeding, he will be unclean for seven days. Every bed he lies on will be unclean.

______________________________

11) PROSTITUTION

Leviticus 19:29
“Do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute, lest the land fall into prostitution and the land become full of depravity.


So, what do you think is going on with god and his rejection of just about everything that has to do with sex, a natural disposition he saw fit to endow the whole human race with?


.

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Re: God's Distaste For Sex

Post #2

Post by Overcomer »

I already explained this in your other thread on the same topic. God created sex. That makes it good. He has NO distaste for what he created. But when sin entered the world, it tainted everything including sex. Sex can be and is abused and that's what is distasteful to God -- the misuse of it -- because the misuse of it is harmful to those involved and that harm can extend beyond the participants to others. But God has no distaste for sex as he created and purposed it.

The Bible says five key things about sex:

1. It's good. Read Song of Solomon if you don't believe me.

2. Husbands owe it to their wives: "The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does" (1 Corinthians 7:3–4 ESV).

3. Married couples should enjoy it often: "Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control" (1 Corinthians 7:5 ESV).

4. It isn't just about procreation, but about intimacy: "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh" (Genesis 2:24 ESV).

5. It isn't necessary to make you human since there were many fulfilled human beings in the Bible who remained celibate including John the Baptist, Jeremiah, Paul (for the better part of his life) and, yes, even Jesus.

See here for more:

https://ca.thegospelcoalition.org/colum ... about-sex/

Is it surprising, for example, that the Bible condemns adultery, something that is hurtful to so many people, not just the ones who engage in it, but their families and friends as well? Are you suggesting that God shouldn't "come down hard on it", to use your words, but should accept it as good and right? Are you suggesting that society should celebrate it?

And yes, lustful thoughts are condemned simply because if you are focusing your thoughts on something, it can lead to actually acting on those thoughts. That's why Jesus says we shouldn't even be thinking those thoughts. They could eventually lead us to commit the act. And that's true of other sins besides adultery.

I'm not a Fundamentalist so I can't address the issues you claim are a problem for them. You'll have to discuss them with somebody who is.

As for Paul's statement about it being good for a man to not have sexual relations with a woman, look at it in context. You can take a statement out of the Bible (or any other written work for that matter) and make it say whatever you want. You have to read things in context to understand them. In 1 Corinthians, Paul is addressing a number of issues that the Corinthians have asked him to address, marriage and sex being two of them. That's why Paul starts out the statement you have quoted by saying, "Now about the matters you wrote about . . . ."

Bear in mind that, at that time, Gnosticism was an influence on the early church. Gnosticism thought everything to do with the flesh was bad, that only the spiritual was good. There was also a tremendous amount of sexual immorality in Rome at that time. Christians wanted to be different from them, be holy or "set apart" as God commanded them. So there would be many questions about how Christians should deal with the issue of sex in light of those two influences.

Now look at that entire chapter in 1 Corinthians. Paul talks about himself, a practicing celibate, who, because he is single and unattached, has the freedom to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ anywhere and everywhere. He suggests that, for this reason, it may be a good thing for some NOT to marry and, therefore, remain celibate. They, too, would have the freedom to spread news of Christ that a married man with a wife and family wouldn't have.

But then he follows that up by saying that he knows that isn't necessarily going to be the best thing for everybody so he advises those who want to marry and engage in sexual relations to do so with his (and God's) blessing.

So, in verse 7, Paul is not suggesting that it would be better for all men to abstain from sex. When you read further on, it's clear that Paul is referring to those who do not marry.

See here for more:

https://www.bibleref.com/1-Corinthians/ ... ter-7.html

As for the passages about menstruation and semen from Leviticus, they were meant for the Israelites at that time and in that place, not for us today, and the rules were established for health reasons. See here:

https://www.shalomadventure.com/torah/a ... le-unclean

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Re: God's Distaste For Sex

Post #3

Post by Miles »

Overcomer wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:14 pm I already explained this in your other thread on the same topic. God created sex. That makes it good. He has NO distaste for what he created. But when sin entered the world, it tainted everything including sex. Sex can be and is abused and that's what is distasteful to God -- the misuse of it -- because the misuse of it is harmful to those involved and that harm can extend beyond the participants to others. But God has no distaste for sex as he created and purposed it.
So, just as with the shame that befell nudity, which was originally shameless, I assume he had no original objection to homosexual sex, oral and anal sex, and even bestiality---desires he created---but infused them with sin after the apple eating incident. Therefore, all these acts are not inherently bad in any way, but are bad simply because that's what god wishes. "Hey people, I know these pleasurable sex acts are essentially harmless, but because I don't want you to enjoy them I'm going to prohibit 'em all--Yours In Love, God. :D "
Overcomer wrote:The Bible says five key things about sex:
1. It's good. Read Song of Solomon if you don't believe me.
Is that why 1 Corinthians 7:1 says: "Now for the matters you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman."?

Overcomer wrote: Is it surprising, for example, that the Bible condemns adultery, something that is hurtful to so many people, not just the ones who engage in it, but their families and friends as well? Are you suggesting that God shouldn't "come down hard on it", to use your words, but should accept it as good and right? Are you suggesting that society should celebrate it?
The one prohibition I agree with.
Overcomer wrote: And yes, lustful thoughts are condemned simply because if you are focusing your thoughts on something, it can lead to actually acting on those thoughts. That's why Jesus says we shouldn't even be thinking those thoughts. They could eventually lead us to commit the act. And that's true of other sins besides adultery.
Ah yes, lustful thoughts, one of those things that might result in one of those harmless, consensual, pleasurable acts god doesn't want anyone to enjoy. Can't have that now, can we. Just like the good Christian would never think of wearing clothing made of mixed fabrics, or the Christian farmer engage in crop rotation. Nope. Never :x

Overcomer wrote: As for Paul's statement about it being good for a man to not have sexual relations with a woman, look at it in context. You can take a statement out of the Bible (or any other written work for that matter) and make it say whatever you want. You have to read things in context to understand them. In 1 Corinthians, Paul is addressing a number of issues that the Corinthians have asked him to address, marriage and sex being two of them. That's why Paul starts out the statement you have quoted by saying, "Now about the matters you wrote about . . . ."
So what? When you get down to the nitty-gritty of it, god, through Paul, is still saying "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman,"

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Re: God's Distaste For Sex

Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:11 pm .


God really comes down on just about everything that has to do with sexuality.



1) NAKEDNESS

Genesis 2:25
The man and his wife were naked, but they were not ashamed.

But after eating the apple;

Genesis 3:7


At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves.



How is the above God showing a distaste for sex (which by the way biblically He invented)? God created Adam and Eve naked (and happy) they made themselves clothed and shameful. Projecting their shame onto Gods feelings about his invention of the human body and sexuality is like running over your neighbours dog and then accusing him of hating his dog.

Image
GENESIS 1:28

Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth "


JW


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Re: God's Distaste For Sex

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:11 pm is frowned upon

1 Corinthians 7:1
Now for the matters you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.
IS SEXUAL INTERCOURSE BETWEEN A MAN AND HIS WIFE VIEWED SCRIPTURALLY AS BAD ?

Absolutely not. Sex between married people is not viewed solely as a way to procreate it is presented in the bible as a way for a couple to express love for each other and draw closer together. It is not viewed scripturally as ungodly or unclean, quite the contrary it is one of the blessings from God.

WHAT OF PAUL'S ASSERTION THAT IT IS BETTER NOT TO HAVE SEX?

The context of Paul's words was clearly comparing a life pursuing spiritual goals as a single person (who would of course abstain from sex) with life as a godly man or woman in marriage. He was not suggesting it was good for married person's not to have sex with each other. Quite the contrary, an examination of verses 3 through 7 of the same chapter has Paul stipulateing that within marriage, sex with ones partner is a rightful "due" and they should not abstain from sexual intercourse but by mutual agreement and that for short periods of time only.


GOOD, BAD OR BETTER?

Since clearly Paul was not suggesting sex within marriage was bad (morally or spiritually reprehensible) we can reasonably conclude he wasn't comparing good with bad but good with better.
To illustrate: A chief samples a pastry from a selection of delicious cakes might say "that's good!" Does that mean we should conclude all the rest were bad or simply not as good?
Paul, like Jesus before him advocated the superiority of a a single life dedicated to God over that of being married but there is contextually no reason to conclude he was saying sex within marriage isn't also good.







JW

PROVERBS 5:18-19 ESV

Let your fountain be blessed, and rejoice in the wife of your youth, a lovely deer, a graceful doe. Let her breasts fill you at all times with delight; be intoxicated always in her love.
FURTHER READING Does the Bible Prohibit Sexual Pleasure?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... about-sex/

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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:13 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: God's Distaste For Sex

Post #6

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:49 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:11 pm .
God really comes down on just about everything that has to do with sexuality.

1) NAKEDNESS

Genesis 2:25
The man and his wife were naked, but they were not ashamed.

But after eating the apple;

Genesis 3:7


At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves.
How is the above God showing a distaste for sex (which by the way biblically He invented)?
First of all,

" In many societies, a strong link between nudity and sexuality is taken for granted."

"In many societies, the breast continues to be associated with nurturing babies as well as sexuality. "

The link between the nude body and a sexual response is reflected in the legal prohibition of indecent exposure in many countries. The parts of the body that cannot be exposed include not only the genitals but the female breasts."
source: Wikipedia

So there is a recognized correlation between nudity and sexuality.

Secondly:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
God created Adam and Eve naked (and happy) they made themselves clothed and shameful.
Nope. Making themselves feel ashamed would involve knowing what shame was (they had no idea it even existed or could exist) and making a conscious effort to do so. But what happened is that they suddenly, and surprisingly, found themselves in a position of being ashamed of their nudity. . And why did they feel shame? It was because god had invested their sin with the sense of shame. It was his decision that shame for their nudity would befall them.

And why would god invest nudity with shame? Because it's linked it with sex (see statements above), activity he really didn't like at all. ("It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman. 1 Corinthians 7:1).

So I find the shame of nudity quite in keeping with God's Distaste For Sex.

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Re: God's Distaste For Sex

Post #7

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:47 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:11 pm is frowned upon

1 Corinthians 7:1
Now for the matters you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.
IS SEXUAL INTERCOURSE BETWEEN A MAN AND HIS WIFE VIEWED SCRIPTURALLY AS BAD ?
Nope, and it's not "man and his wife" but man and woman. Only 1 out of the 59 Bibles I checked uses "wife." Even the JW Bible uses "man" and "woman."
JehovahsWitness wrote:
WHAT OF PAUL'S ASSERTION THAT IT IS BETTER NOT TO HAVE SEX?
Of course you mean god's assertion when speaking through Paul.
JehovahsWitness wrote:
The context of Paul's words was clearly comparing a life pursuing spiritual goals as a single person (who would of course abstain from sex) with life as a godly man or woman in marriage.
Please show your evidence because I found zilch.

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Quite the contrary, an examination of verses 3 through 7 of the same chapter has Paul stipulateing that within marriage, sex with ones partner is a rightful "due" and they should not abstain from sexual intercourse but by mutual agreement and that for short periods of time only.
So what? Although god felt "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman." he recognized the practicalities of the situation and gave a begrudging go-ahead.
JehovahsWitness wrote:
GOOD, BAD OR BETTER?

Since clearly Paul was not suggesting sex within marriage was bad (morally or spiritually reprehensible) we can reasonably conclude he wasn't comparing good with bad but good with better.
To illustrate: A chief samples a pastry from a selection of delicious cakes might say "that's good!" Does that mean we should conclude all the rest were bad or simply not as good?
Paul, like Jesus before him advocated the superiority of a a single life dedicated to God over that of being married but there is contextually no reason to conclude he was saying sex within marriage isn't also good.

Sorry, but "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman." isn't qualified by any circumstance, including marriage. Pure and simple, god, through Paul, is saying having sexual relations ain't good! However, . . . . . . . . . . .

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Re: God's Distaste For Sex

Post #8

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:12 pm
So there is a recognized correlation between nudity and sexuality.
And is there anything in the Genesis account to indicate either nudity or sexuality was considered shameful in God's eyes?






Miles wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:12 pm It was because god had invested their sin with the sense of shame.
Yes, sin evokes shame in anyone that has a well trained conscience but what has SIN got to do with nudity or sexuality? (see above).








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Re: God's Distaste For Sex

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:11 pm is frowned upon

1 Corinthians 7:1
Now for the matters you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.
Since Corinthians 7 verse 1 refers to "a man" and "a woman" (rather than a husband and his wife), can we not conclude that Paul was saying it was good for a man (or, by implication a woman) not to have sex with anyone at all including their own marriage parner?

No, because as has already been stated in my earlier post he (Paul) immediately qualified the situation for married people stating they must not deprive each other of sex and that it is NOT good to abstain from sex for long periods within the marriage union . In the context of the discussion, a man and a woman can have sex (a) with their marriage partner or (b) with someone (or something) which is not their marriage partner; there is no third option. If the bible stipulates long term abstinence within marriage is undesirable, it by implication indicates regular sex within marriage is desirable .


So would it be fair to say, Paul is advocating abstinence for all "men and women" that are unmarried? Yes, Paul is not just writing to husbands and wives, his letter is addresssesd to the entire corintian community and beyond. Abstinence for singletons is the biblical position: ie. unmarried people people (male or female) are to live without engaging in sexual intercourse of any kind. Sex outside the bonds of biblical marriage is known as fornication (Greek porneia) and is condemned by God as unclean. Paul recommends a single life as "good" but acknowledges this demands a degree of self control that few can meet (compare 1 Cor 7: 26, 38). He never condemns those that choose to marry and enjoy sex therein as being "bad", "unclean" or reprehensible.

1 CORINTHIANS 7:38

...whoever marries does well, but whoever does not marry will do better.
CONCLUSION Paul in 1 CORINTHIANS 7:1 is indeed outlining divine law and principle for "men and women" but it is inaccurate to suggest Paul does not qualify his words. He immediately and explicitly qualifies his exortation explaiining that abstinence is not recommended for married people; by default then he is advocating the benefits of abstinence for non-married men (and women).






JW






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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: God's Distaste For Sex

Post #10

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:33 am
Miles wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:12 pm
So there is a recognized correlation between nudity and sexuality.
And is there anything in the Genesis account to indicate either nudity or sexuality was considered shameful in God's eyes?
Yes there is. Agreeing with the shame A&E felt in their nakedness:

and the Lord God clothed Adam and his wife with garments made from skins of animals.
(Genesis 3:21)

And, while not in Genesis, god does express his distaste for nudity when, as Jesus, he says:

“Behold I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and men see his filthiness”)
(Revelation 16:15)

And why would god bother investing nudity with shame if he didn't believe nudity deserved it? He wouldn't, but he did, which means he felt it appropriate that nudity be considered shameful.

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Miles wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:12 pm It was because god had invested their sin with the sense of shame.
Yes, sin evokes shame in anyone that has a well trained conscience but what has SIN got to do with nudity or sexuality? (see above).
The shame of nudity was the first consequence of committing the sin of eating the apple..

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