"Without excuse"?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Athetotheist
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"Without excuse"?

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Post by Athetotheist »

Christian fundamentalism holds that same-sex relationships are unnatural, which raises a question: if same-sex attractions are unnatural, why do they occur throughout nature? (They've been observed in over 1,000 animal species, involving activity from sex to the raising of offspring.) When confronted with this, fundamentalists may respond by claiming that same-sex attraction is a feature of the "fallen nature" of the world.

But then we have Romans 1:20 (emphasis mine)----

"For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse".

If animals exhibit same-sex pairing and animals are part of Creation and we know God through Creation, how are same-sex pairings unnatural? How can fundamentalism have it both ways, condemning the same-sex nature of the "fallen" animal world while agreeing with Rom. 1:20 that the created world clearly displays the attributes of God?

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Miles
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Re: "Without excuse"?

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Post by Miles »

.

I agree that same-sex attractions and relationships are natural, and the bible doesn't have a thing against them; however, if they progress to sexual conduct between two men god says to kill them both.

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Although practicing homosexual women get off much, much easier. They're simply scolded for engaging in vile acts against nature.

Romans 1:26
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:


While there aren't many LGBTs, they are part of nature (a natural component) that make up 3.5-4.5% of the population---for whatever reason nature has left some people principally homosexual and others principally heterosexual. Just as nature has left 10% of the population left handed. But for some unexplained reason the Christian god, while apparently not caring that some folk turn out LGBT, hates that they dare physically express their love, or simple attraction for each other. A physical expression of love or simple attraction he finds as a boon and benefit in all the others. Kill one kind while sending the other kind to heaven.

Go figure, because I can't. Bias? Bigotry? Prejudice?, Intolerance? Favoritism? Animosity? Disgust? Dislike? Revulsion? Meanness? ____fill in your guess____ .



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Athetotheist
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Re: "Without excuse"?

Post #3

Post by Athetotheist »

Miles wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:14 am .

I agree that same-sex attractions and relationships are natural, and the bible doesn't have a thing against them; however, if they progress to sexual conduct between two men god says to kill them both.

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Although practicing homosexual women get off much, much easier. They're simply scolded for engaging in vile acts against nature.

Romans 1:26
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:


While there aren't many LGBTs, they are part of nature (a natural component) that make up 3.5-4.5% of the population---for whatever reason nature has left some people principally homosexual and others principally heterosexual. Just as nature has left 10% of the population left handed. But for some unexplained reason the Christian god, while apparently not caring that some folk turn out LGBT, hates that they dare physically express their love, or simple attraction for each other. A physical expression of love or simple attraction he finds as a boon and benefit in all the others. Kill one kind while sending the other kind to heaven.

Go figure, because I can't. Bias? Bigotry? Prejudice?, Intolerance? Favoritism? Animosity? Disgust? Dislike? Revulsion? Meanness? ____fill in your guess____ .



.
My guess would be All Of The Above----in those who wrote the text assuming that they were speaking for God.

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Re: "Without excuse"?

Post #4

Post by Overcomer »

Athetoatheist wrote:
Christian fundamentalism holds that same-sex relationships are unnatural, which raises a question: if same-sex attractions are unnatural, why do they occur throughout nature? (They've been observed in over 1,000 animal species, involving activity from sex to the raising of offspring.) When confronted with this, fundamentalists may respond by claiming that same-sex attraction is a feature of the "fallen nature" of the world.
Yes, that's right. All of creation came under the curse. All of creation is tainted by sin. That means everything, including animals, have been negatively affected by the fall.

athetoathiest wrote:
But then we have Romans 1:20 (emphasis mine)----

"For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse".

If animals exhibit same-sex pairing and animals are part of Creation and we know God through Creation, how are same-sex pairings unnatural? How can fundamentalism have it both ways, condemning the same-sex nature of the "fallen" animal world while agreeing with Rom. 1:20 that the created world clearly displays the attributes of God?
First of all, that verse in Romans doesn't suggest that everything in creation is good and right and godly. All it means is that God is evident in the complexity and beauty of creation, in the glorious aspects of it. For while sin entered the world and has blighted it, it has not entirely eliminated the good that reflects the Creator himself. The fine-tuning of the universe, for example, speaks of him.

See here:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don ... rt_377.cfm

And here:




Secondly, why would you think that, because some animals engage in same-sex couplings, that legitimizes it for humans? A great many animals, including a large number of primates, kill their young. Would you say that makes it acceptable for humans to do the same? Where do you draw the line re: using animals as an example of "natural" behaviour which, therefore, makes such behaviour acceptable in humans? Because if you want to use animals to justify one aspect of human behaviour, then why not in all?

Athetotheist
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Re: "Without excuse"?

Post #5

Post by Athetotheist »

Overcomer wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:58 pmA great many animals, including a large number of primates, kill their young. Would you say that makes it acceptable for humans to do the same? Where do you draw the line re: using animals as an example of "natural" behaviour which, therefore, makes such behaviour acceptable in humans?
Are you comparing same-sex relationships to killing?

One might as easily ask where YOU draw the line. Are the patriarchs of certain organized religions who called for the slaughter of whole populations INCLUDING the young to be held up as examples of "righteous" behavior acceptable in the human community?

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Re: "Without excuse"?

Post #6

Post by nobspeople »

Athetotheist wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:25 pm Christian fundamentalism holds that same-sex relationships are unnatural, which raises a question: if same-sex attractions are unnatural, why do they occur throughout nature? (They've been observed in over 1,000 animal species, involving activity from sex to the raising of offspring.) When confronted with this, fundamentalists may respond by claiming that same-sex attraction is a feature of the "fallen nature" of the world.

But then we have Romans 1:20 (emphasis mine)----

"For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse".

If animals exhibit same-sex pairing and animals are part of Creation and we know God through Creation, how are same-sex pairings unnatural? How can fundamentalism have it both ways, condemning the same-sex nature of the "fallen" animal world while agreeing with Rom. 1:20 that the created world clearly displays the attributes of God?

Those that say it's unnatural likely never had a biology class. Or they believe any lie told to them.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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