Chastity

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Miles
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Chastity

Post #1

Post by Miles »


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The Bible says people shouldn't have sexual intercourse (sex) before marriage, and, in fact, deems sex so distasteful, even immoral, that god had to invent marriage to legitimize it.

1 Corinthians 7:1-2

1 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

So, for whatever reason, god finds sex pretty reprehensible, for which he provides only a single remedy, and one not fitting everybody. However, according to the most recent statistics I could find, of never-married 18-22 year-olds, on average 74% of Christian females and Christian males have had premarital sex.


Image
source


Now, considering god's stand on premarital sex, to me them's pretty daunting statistics. Chastity be damned, as it were. Stats I would think to be more fitting the non-religious.

In fact, as of five months ago "half of U.S. Christians say casual sex between consenting adults is sometimes or always acceptable."
source (My emphasis)



So, what do you think about chastity and sex before marriage? In time will chastity no longer be a concern of Christianity?

And what group do you fall into? O:)


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The Tanager
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Re: Chastity

Post #2

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Miles wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:51 pmSo, what do you think about chastity and sex before marriage? In time will chastity no longer be a concern of Christianity?

And what group do you fall into?
I think chastity before marriage is best. I do not think that chastity will stop being a concern for many Christians. I did not have pre-marital sex. Some of those years I was not a Christian. My abstinence during those pre-Christian years was due to my shyness, though.

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Re: Chastity

Post #3

Post by Miles »

The Tanager wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:17 pm
Miles wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:51 pmSo, what do you think about chastity and sex before marriage? In time will chastity no longer be a concern of Christianity?

And what group do you fall into?
I think chastity before marriage is best.
Care to explain?


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Re: Chastity

Post #4

Post by The Tanager »

[Replying to Miles in post #3]

The short answer is that I think sex outside of a committed relationship (marriage) can be harmful in various ways and does not add any benefits that I can see. Some of the ways it can be harmful include STDs, the tearing of emotional bonds (with each other and your children), objectifying/using the other, leading to more damaging behavior, among others I'm sure. I'm willing to delve further into my answer and to be challenged on it.

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Re: Chastity

Post #5

Post by nobspeople »

Miles wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:51 pm
.

The Bible says people shouldn't have sexual intercourse (sex) before marriage, and, in fact, deems sex so distasteful, even immoral, that god had to invent marriage to legitimize it.

1 Corinthians 7:1-2

1 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

So, for whatever reason, god finds sex pretty reprehensible, for which he provides only a single remedy, and one not fitting everybody. However, according to the most recent statistics I could find, of never-married 18-22 year-olds, on average 74% of Christian females and Christian males have had premarital sex.


Image
source


Now, considering god's stand on premarital sex, to me them's pretty daunting statistics. Chastity be damned, as it were. Stats I would think to be more fitting the non-religious.

In fact, as of five months ago "half of U.S. Christians say casual sex between consenting adults is sometimes or always acceptable."
source (My emphasis)



So, what do you think about chastity and sex before marriage? In time will chastity no longer be a concern of Christianity?

And what group do you fall into? O:)


.
I had someone tell me once that sex is the marriage, not the act itself. He said God views sex as an act of marriage (he provided biblical references but it was so long ago I don't remember what they were). He said (my words here) there is no pre-marital sex because the act of sex bonds the people together and thus, they're married in God's eyes. It was an interesting POV, especially from such a devout Christian.

I think people make WAY too much out of the act of sex. Sex isn't always related to love. Sometimes it's just to get release of pent up feelings - a way for people to express those feelings with each other.
Sex is what we make of it. While we shouldn't discount what it can bring or offer, we likewise shouldn't grant it so much control over our lives.
Sex is a part of humanity. Love is as well. If we CHOOSE to intertwine the two, that's fine. It's also fine if we choose to separate the two altogether, it at least for a period of time.
Lumping in sex and love together is erroneous and has the potential to lead to a lot of issues IMO. Looking around at the issues it can cause, particularly with in the church, I don't see how we can see it any other way.
But then again, I don't see how some can believe in an invisible creator of everything when we see no proof of it outside the proof that fits our lifestyle either so....
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Chastity

Post #6

Post by Miles »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:58 pm I had someone tell me once that sex is the marriage, not the act itself. He said God views sex as an act of marriage (he provided biblical references but it was so long ago I don't remember what they were). He said (my words here) there is no pre-marital sex because the act of sex bonds the people together and thus, they're married in God's eyes. It was an interesting POV, especially from such a devout Christian.
Certainly odd, but okay; to each his own.

I think people make WAY too much out of the act of sex. Sex isn't always related to love. Sometimes it's just to get release of pent up feelings - a way for people to express those feelings with each other.
Sex is what we make of it. While we shouldn't discount what it can bring or offer, we likewise shouldn't grant it so much control over our lives.
Sex is a part of humanity. Love is as well. If we CHOOSE to intertwine the two, that's fine. It's also fine if we choose to separate the two altogether, it at least for a period of time.
Of course a lot of Christians would disagree and are just fine with a god who apparently has a real hang-up with sex, and sexual intercourse in particular. I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where god explains his inordinate distaste for sexual conduct: why "It is well for a man not to touch a woman." And why it's immoral (see 1 Corinthians 7:1-2).

Lumping in sex and love together is erroneous and has the potential to lead to a lot of issues IMO.
Whereas I see it, among other things, as a natural extension of love. I know when I fell in love, which was several times, each time I had a desire to be as physically intimate as I could. I'm sure there are a number of psychological and physiological reasons for this, over which I had no control, but there I was, intently trying to go as far as I could with her. ................. Or was it she with me? Hmmm. :confused2: . . . . . actually, I remember us being muy compatible. :hug:


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Re: Chastity

Post #7

Post by Miles »

The Tanager wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:37 pm [Replying to Miles in post #3]

The short answer is that I think sex outside of a committed relationship (marriage) can be harmful in various ways and does not add any benefits that I can see. Some of the ways it can be harmful include STDs, the tearing of emotional bonds (with each other and your children), objectifying/using the other, leading to more damaging behavior, among others I'm sure. I'm willing to delve further into my answer and to be challenged on it.
Because I don't have the time or inclination to get into it,
Here's
an article from the Guardian that presents "The Moral Case For Sex Before Marriage: Condemning premarital sex and promoting abstinence are not working. Lasting, loving relationships are made through intimacy."


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Re: Chastity

Post #8

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Miles wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:01 pmBecause I don't have the time or inclination to get into it,
Here's
an article from the Guardian that presents "The Moral Case For Sex Before Marriage: Condemning premarital sex and promoting abstinence are not working. Lasting, loving relationships are made through intimacy."
Here is the support Filipovic seems to me to give in the article.

1. It makes you happy.

First, that's an incomplete picture. It makes people happy and (at the least) the possibility of making people unhappy without any way to guarantee that one will only experience happiness. When the emotional bonds that sex creates are later broken, this causes unhappiness. Second, happiness that causes other harms to one's self and others is not a good path to happiness. Third, people can be happy without sex. Sex is not a fundamental human experience.

2. It releases stress.
3. It boosts immunities.
4. It helps you sleep.
5. It is heart-healthy.
6. It helps us figure out what love is, what we like, and how to negotiate our own needs with someone else's needs, as well as to become more well-rounded, compassionate, and self-assured.

All of those things are good, of course, but there are other ways to do all of those in ways that don't bring the other negative consequences that sex outside of marriage can bring.

7. Those with traditional views on marriage and gender have higher divorce rates.
8. Those with traditional views on marriage and gender have unhappier marriages.

I'm skeptical of that. I've heard of studies that show the divorce rate being around 50% for all couples, but only 10% if both partners are virgins (the traditional view of marriage). I've seen stats of 80% of people living together before getting married that actually get married eventually getting divorced. I'm not saying these are the end all statistics, but the ones I've looked at don't seem to support the author's claim.

8. It is good to see if people are compatible.

First, sex is not static. Compatibility is something that can be worked towards. It isn't effortless, at least not good sex. Second, this could lead to unhealthy comparisons that could damage the relationship.

9. Unintended pregnancies, abortions, and STDs would go down if our culture didn't cast sex as shameful and dirty.

I agree. I don't think the Biblical understanding of sex casts sex as shameful and dirty, though.

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Re: Chastity

Post #9

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The Tanager wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:36 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:01 pmBecause I don't have the time or inclination to get into it,
Here's
an article from the Guardian that presents "The Moral Case For Sex Before Marriage: Condemning premarital sex and promoting abstinence are not working. Lasting, loving relationships are made through intimacy."
Here is the support Filipovic seems to me to give in the article.

1. It makes you happy.

First, that's an incomplete picture. It makes people happy and (at the least) the possibility of making people unhappy without any way to guarantee that one will only experience happiness.
Other than death, no aspect of life comes with a guarantee of anything.

When the emotional bonds that sex creates are later broken, this causes unhappiness.
Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Not all of us are prone to crumpling with the dissolution of a sexual relationship, and few of us are going stay in bed all day just to avoid the possibility of undesirable consequences.

Second, happiness that causes other harms to one's self and others is not a good path to happiness.
You talk as if sex before marriage is the only path to happiness. It isn't; although, it can certainly help.

Third, people can be happy without sex.
As they can be without religion, music, dance, a good joke, new clothes, etc, etc. etc., etc...... so what?

Sex is not a fundamental human experience.
Not sure what you mean by "human experience," but as guess, the way god rails against it one would think it's pretty fundamental. In fact, some sociologists recognize it as one of the three major drives in animals; the other two being sleeping and eating. So let's not be underrating it.
With few exceptions, it IS fundamental to the human experience.

2. It releases stress.
3. It boosts immunities.
4. It helps you sleep.
5. It is heart-healthy.
6. It helps us figure out what love is, what we like, and how to negotiate our own needs with someone else's needs, as well as to become more well-rounded, compassionate, and self-assured.

All of those things are good, of course, but there are other ways to do all of those in ways that don't bring the other negative consequences that sex outside of marriage can bring.
Not talking about sex outside marriage, but sex before it. And honest to god, it's beginning to appear like you're actually afraid of it. Hope I'm wrong.


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Re: Chastity

Post #10

Post by The Tanager »

Miles wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:31 amOther than death, no aspect of life comes with a guarantee of anything.
I'm failing to see how that counters my point of sex bringing a mix of happiness and unhappiness.
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:31 amSometimes yes. Sometimes no. Not all of us are prone to crumpling with the dissolution of a sexual relationship, and few of us are going stay in bed all day just to avoid the possibility of undesirable consequences.
There are different levels of unhappiness.
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:31 am
Second, happiness that causes other harms to one's self and others is not a good path to happiness.[/qquote]

You talk as if sex before marriage is the only path to happiness. It isn't; although, it can certainly help.
I'm definitely not claiming that sex before marriage is the only path to happiness; I think it causes net-unhappiness. Do you mean that I'm saying sex within marriage is the only path to happiness? If so, I'm not. I think a celibate life can be just as fulfilling as married life. I am saying that a life with sex outside (which includes before) of marriage will not be as fulfilling as the other two.
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:31 amAs they can be without religion, music, dance, a good joke, new clothes, etc, etc. etc., etc...... so what?
I agree. Filipovic argues that sex before marriage is good because it makes people happy. In this argument Filipovic is saying happiness is the good thing to get. I'm saying you can get it without sex. Therefore, "it makes me happy," is not a good enough reason to have sex before marriage.
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:31 amNot sure what you mean by "human experience," but as guess, the way god rails against it one would think it's pretty fundamental. In fact, some sociologists recognize it as one of the three major drives in animals; the other two being sleeping and eating. So let's not be underrating it.
With few exceptions, it IS fundamental to the human experience.
Do you think that someone who never has sex is less than other humans? If so, then why? If not, then you are saying that sex is not fundamental to being a human. People may think it is fundamental to who they are but they are wrong.
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:31 amNot talking about sex outside marriage, but sex before it.
What I said applies to all sex outside of marriage, which includes premarital sex. We don't need premarital sex to relieve stress, boost immunity, help us sleep, make our heart healthy, help us to figure out what love is, what things we like, hot to negotiate our needs with someone else's, to become more well-rounded, compassionate, or self-assured. Premarital sex often works against many of these things, as well as bring other harms to us and those around us. Other activities can give us those positives without the negatives much better.
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:31 amAnd honest to god, it's beginning to appear like you're actually afraid of it. Hope I'm wrong.
What do you mean "afraid of it"? I've only shared how I don't think it's good for people, but that's not being afraid of it.

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