Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Dimmesdale
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Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #1

Post by Dimmesdale »

Some of us cannot help indulging our sexuality even after coming to the standard of spiritual life. I am one of them to be frank. I have not come to this compromise lightly - by no means. But I could no longer stay at war with myself. And so I have outlined these 12 principles for sexual masturbation in the context of being a spiritual aspirant.

What do you think? Are these principles in your eyes bona fide? I think they make sense and are illuminating, but I will allow others to come to their own conclusion.

I call them, somewhat humorously, "The Twelve Principles of Moonfleet."

1. Keep ego out of it. Let it simply wash over your shore like Water. When it recedes, let it go without attachment, back into the Ocean whence it came....

2. Do it at the end of the day.

3. Experience and enjoy it fully for what it is. Be honest with it. Else, you will hanker again for the opportunity you lost, and will always try to "make it right this time."

4. Pray for greater inner flow, - that peace may supersede the Need more and more.

5. Be mindful - and skip by all means. Regulate according to your body's state. Know thyself.

6. Be loving and honor all energies, - no matter how gross.

7. Keep refining your prayer life all the while. You are still soldiering in the war against Maya, - but in a different way. This is only a temporary concession, - not for sin, but for your weakness. Keep this fact in focus.

8. Prefer imagination to pornography. This is more natural and less violent and vulgar, - you control the fantasy, no one else. It is more interior, less exterior. Thus it is more intimate and true to your actual self.

9. Make a point not to bring it up or brag about it in any way, - even to yourself. Leave it aside and in its proper and respectful place.

10. Keep moving forward and evolving spiritually - do not dwell on these things more than necessary. Remember that the ultimate goal is peace.

11. Do it only when you are strongly agitated or if you are very restless at night and it might interfere with your duties in the day. Otherwise, do not arouse yourself.

12. Remember to thank the Lord who is so Merciful that he allows such a system for the time being for those of us whose natures are so bruised that we cannot find any other way feasible to us.

***

You CAN fight the War against Maya... But first you need the Heart of a Warrior.....

Focus on finding that Heart, that Love, that Grace of Brother Wind.

Then you can handle the Fire of Life and not be wearied down by it.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #11

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Miles in post #8]
Gotta say, praying and masturbating at the same time is a pretty hard act to pull off.
Not if you're doing it right ;) :P
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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #12

Post by Dimmesdale »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 pm [Replying to Miles in post #8]
Gotta say, praying and masturbating at the same time is a pretty hard act to pull off.
Not if you're doing it right ;) :P
Did I say at the same time? I meant afterwards or before, not during.

But, I believe God is so Merciful, that you can at least thing of God if you do it in good faith, and he will accept you....
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #13

Post by nobspeople »

Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:03 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 pm [Replying to Miles in post #8]
Gotta say, praying and masturbating at the same time is a pretty hard act to pull off.
Not if you're doing it right ;) :P
Did I say at the same time? I meant afterwards or before, not during.

But, I believe God is so Merciful, that you can at least thing of God if you do it in good faith, and he will accept you....
I've heard it before, during and after :dance:
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #14

Post by Miles »

Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:03 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 pm [Replying to Miles in post #8]
Gotta say, praying and masturbating at the same time is a pretty hard act to pull off.
Not if you're doing it right ;) :P
Did I say at the same time? I meant afterwards or before, not during.

But, I believe God is so Merciful, that you can at least thing of God if you do it in good faith, and he will accept you....
"Merciful" implies treating people with kindness and forgiveness. That's very nice and all I guess, but why should masturbation merit kindness and forgiveness, or acceptance for that matter? If I masturbate longer or more frequently will god's mercifulness increase? 'Cause I can really score with him if it does.


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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #15

Post by Difflugia »

Miles wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:37 pm"Merciful" implies treating people with kindness and forgiveness. That's very nice and all I guess, but why should masturbation merit kindness and forgiveness, or acceptance for that matter? If I masturbate longer or more frequently will god's mercifulness increase? 'Cause I can really score with him if it does.
You do realize that Romans 6:1-2 literally addresses this point, right?
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.
My preferred pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #16

Post by Miles »

Difflugia wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:41 pm
Miles wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:37 pm"Merciful" implies treating people with kindness and forgiveness. That's very nice and all I guess, but why should masturbation merit kindness and forgiveness, or acceptance for that matter? If I masturbate longer or more frequently will god's mercifulness increase? 'Cause I can really score with him if it does.
You do realize that Romans 6:1-2 literally addresses this point, right?
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.

Romans 6:1-2

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Are you implying that masturbation is a sin? Because "there is no explicit claim in the Bible that masturbation is sinful."

Sources; Wikipedia:
1.Patton, Michael S. (June 1985). "Masturbation from Judaism to Victorianism". Journal of Religion and Health. 24 (2): 133–146.

2.Kwee, Alex W.; David C. Hoover (2008). "Theologically-Informed Education about Masturbation: A Male Sexual Health Perspective" (PDF). Journal of Psychology and Theology. 36 (4): 258–269.

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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #17

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Miles in post #17]
Are you implying that masturbation is a sin? Because "there is no explicit claim in the Bible that masturbation is sinful."
Not to speak for Difflugia, but my church taught that YES it is a sin because it involves lust over another - lust being a sin.
You do have what some consider a biblical masturbation verse: Genesis 38:9-10 (though, like most all things 'the bible', there are those that disagree with its interpretation (go figure)!

"The Bible no where specifically forbids or denounces masturbation. It does, of course, denounce all forms of sexual impurity and fantasies that would involve adulterous relationships whether actual or mental. The problem with masturbation is that it not only can become habit forming and addictive, but men and women often engage in pornography and adulterous fantasies in order to reach a climax...As mentioned, the Bible does not directly address the issue of masturbation or deliberate self-stimulation of the sexual organ to the point of orgasm. It does warn against all forms of self-indulgence, adultery of the mind, and fornication."
https://bible.org/question/does-bible-s ... bation-sin

"Ephesians 5:3 says, "Among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity." Thinking about how we have to conjure up or seek out sexual stimulation in order to masturbate, it's pretty easy to see that we might fail that purity test."
https://412teens.org/qna/is-masturbation-a-sin.php

Then there's this write up, saying it is a sin.
https://applygodsword.com/does-the-bibl ... turbation/

So, like almost everything in the bible, the YES or NO question is up to the person being asked. I suspect those Christians that masturbate a lot tend to think it's not a sin, while those of a more 'pure nature' (at least to their minds) say it is a sin.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #18

Post by Miles »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:51 pm [Replying to Miles in post #17]
Are you implying that masturbation is a sin? Because "there is no explicit claim in the Bible that masturbation is sinful."
Not to speak for Difflugia, but my church taught that YES it is a sin because it involves lust over another - lust being a sin.
Maybe I'm different from your average masturbator, but there were many times when lust never entered the equation.
You do have what some consider a biblical masturbation verse: Genesis 38:9-10 (though, like most all things 'the bible', there are those that disagree with its interpretation (go figure)!

"The Bible no where specifically forbids or denounces masturbation. It does, of course, denounce all forms of sexual impurity and fantasies that would involve adulterous relationships whether actual or mental. The problem with masturbation is that it not only can become habit forming and addictive, but men and women often engage in pornography and adulterous fantasies in order to reach a climax...As mentioned, the Bible does not directly address the issue of masturbation or deliberate self-stimulation of the sexual organ to the point of orgasm. It does warn against all forms of self-indulgence, adultery of the mind, and fornication."
https://bible.org/question/does-bible-s ... bation-sin

"Ephesians 5:3 says, "Among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity." Thinking about how we have to conjure up or seek out sexual stimulation in order to masturbate, it's pretty easy to see that we might fail that purity test."
https://412teens.org/qna/is-masturbation-a-sin.php

Then there's this write up, saying it is a sin.
https://applygodsword.com/does-the-bibl ... turbation/

So, like almost everything in the bible, the YES or NO question is up to the person being asked. I suspect those Christians that masturbate a lot tend to think it's not a sin, while those of a more 'pure nature' (at least to their minds) say it is a sin.
Thanks for all the leg work you've done here. As I've read elsewhere, masturbation is a problematic issue for Christians who have no "Yes" or "No" direction from their denomination. As Wikipedia notes:

"Today, Roman Catholic (including Eastern Catholic), Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and some Protestant Christians consider masturbation to be a sin. Many Protestant churches in Northern and Western Europe and some Protestant churches in Northern America and in Australia/New Zealand see masturbation as not a sin."

Because at times I have masturbated without lust, as I imagine many others have, including many ranking pooh-bahs in the Catholic Church and elsewhere, I believe their denunciation of the act is motivated by some kind of self interest---retaining their position in their church perhaps---rather than an honest assessment of it.


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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #19

Post by nobspeople »

Miles wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:38 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:51 pm [Replying to Miles in post #17]
Are you implying that masturbation is a sin? Because "there is no explicit claim in the Bible that masturbation is sinful."
Not to speak for Difflugia, but my church taught that YES it is a sin because it involves lust over another - lust being a sin.
Maybe I'm different from your average masturbator, but there were many times when lust never entered the equation.
You do have what some consider a biblical masturbation verse: Genesis 38:9-10 (though, like most all things 'the bible', there are those that disagree with its interpretation (go figure)!

"The Bible no where specifically forbids or denounces masturbation. It does, of course, denounce all forms of sexual impurity and fantasies that would involve adulterous relationships whether actual or mental. The problem with masturbation is that it not only can become habit forming and addictive, but men and women often engage in pornography and adulterous fantasies in order to reach a climax...As mentioned, the Bible does not directly address the issue of masturbation or deliberate self-stimulation of the sexual organ to the point of orgasm. It does warn against all forms of self-indulgence, adultery of the mind, and fornication."
https://bible.org/question/does-bible-s ... bation-sin

"Ephesians 5:3 says, "Among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity." Thinking about how we have to conjure up or seek out sexual stimulation in order to masturbate, it's pretty easy to see that we might fail that purity test."
https://412teens.org/qna/is-masturbation-a-sin.php

Then there's this write up, saying it is a sin.
https://applygodsword.com/does-the-bibl ... turbation/

So, like almost everything in the bible, the YES or NO question is up to the person being asked. I suspect those Christians that masturbate a lot tend to think it's not a sin, while those of a more 'pure nature' (at least to their minds) say it is a sin.
Thanks for all the leg work you've done here. As I've read elsewhere, masturbation is a problematic issue for Christians who have no "Yes" or "No" direction from their denomination. As Wikipedia notes:

"Today, Roman Catholic (including Eastern Catholic), Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and some Protestant Christians consider masturbation to be a sin. Many Protestant churches in Northern and Western Europe and some Protestant churches in Northern America and in Australia/New Zealand see masturbation as not a sin."

Because at times I have masturbated without lust, as I imagine many others have, including many ranking pooh-bahs in the Catholic Church and elsewhere, I believe their denunciation of the act is motivated by some kind of self interest---retaining their position in their church perhaps---rather than an honest assessment of it.


.
Bolded for emphasis as it would seem, there were times when lust (sin) was involved.
I've heard some say lust (even for one's spouse) is sinful. But that opens a whole other can o' annelida, I suspect :D
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Reasonable Masturbation Principles

Post #20

Post by Miles »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:32 am
Miles wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:38 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:51 pm [Replying to Miles in post #17]
Are you implying that masturbation is a sin? Because "there is no explicit claim in the Bible that masturbation is sinful."
Not to speak for Difflugia, but my church taught that YES it is a sin because it involves lust over another - lust being a sin.
Maybe I'm different from your average masturbator, but there were many times when lust never entered the equation.
You do have what some consider a biblical masturbation verse: Genesis 38:9-10 (though, like most all things 'the bible', there are those that disagree with its interpretation (go figure)!

"The Bible no where specifically forbids or denounces masturbation. It does, of course, denounce all forms of sexual impurity and fantasies that would involve adulterous relationships whether actual or mental. The problem with masturbation is that it not only can become habit forming and addictive, but men and women often engage in pornography and adulterous fantasies in order to reach a climax...As mentioned, the Bible does not directly address the issue of masturbation or deliberate self-stimulation of the sexual organ to the point of orgasm. It does warn against all forms of self-indulgence, adultery of the mind, and fornication."
https://bible.org/question/does-bible-s ... bation-sin

"Ephesians 5:3 says, "Among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity." Thinking about how we have to conjure up or seek out sexual stimulation in order to masturbate, it's pretty easy to see that we might fail that purity test."
https://412teens.org/qna/is-masturbation-a-sin.php

Then there's this write up, saying it is a sin.
https://applygodsword.com/does-the-bibl ... turbation/

So, like almost everything in the bible, the YES or NO question is up to the person being asked. I suspect those Christians that masturbate a lot tend to think it's not a sin, while those of a more 'pure nature' (at least to their minds) say it is a sin.
Thanks for all the leg work you've done here. As I've read elsewhere, masturbation is a problematic issue for Christians who have no "Yes" or "No" direction from their denomination. As Wikipedia notes:

"Today, Roman Catholic (including Eastern Catholic), Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and some Protestant Christians consider masturbation to be a sin. Many Protestant churches in Northern and Western Europe and some Protestant churches in Northern America and in Australia/New Zealand see masturbation as not a sin."

Because at times I have masturbated without lust, as I imagine many others have, including many ranking pooh-bahs in the Catholic Church and elsewhere, I believe their denunciation of the act is motivated by some kind of self interest---retaining their position in their church perhaps---rather than an honest assessment of it.


.
Bolded for emphasis as it would seem, there were times when lust (sin) was involved.
I've heard some say lust (even for one's spouse) is sinful. But that opens a whole other can o' annelida, I suspect :D
Yup, and I'll probably roast in Hell for them, or at least they'll help put me there.


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