Debating Christianity and Religion

Hi all

As of 29 July 2022. What does the science say? What do you think?

Homosexuality: nature or nurture?

Wootah wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:03 am As for children, my child appears to be growing fabulously with the knowledge of Jesus. Growing up an atheist I am quite relieved so far.

Would that be an indication that they were successfully indoctrinated to share your belief?

I am wondering, what would your response be if your child revealed to you that they had lost their faith and/or that they were in fact gay?

Wootah wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:03 am

Clownboat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:35 pm

Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:47 pm We are talking about our beliefs about the world not about keeping fish.

I know. Did you know I was responding to something you said that was false that I addressed with my keeping of fish?
Wootah: Copy/paste: "We are all indoctrinated by what we believe."

Even if you had said that we are all indoctrinated in the world about what we believe, it would still be incorrect. Again, the keeping of fish example was brought on to counter your claim. You trying not to acknowledging this and pretending I was talking about keeping fish was just a dodge.

If I say to a child 'if you don't study you will not pass the test' - is that a threat? That is all I mean when I say hell awaits.

Yes, but not nearly as threatening as telling a child they will spend eternity in hell for whatever reasons.

It's just how indoctrinated you are to think that way.

As for children, my child appears to be growing fabulously with the knowledge of Jesus. Growing up an atheist I am quite relieved so far.

I also grew up with the knowledge of Jesus. It was a very difficult thing, but I was eventually set free from my beliefs.

If there is hope for me, I trust there is hope for many as I am now a more loving and Christ-like person no longer saddled with a belief that some humans deserve eternal torture for not placing faith in a being we cannot show to be real.

Only when humans stop telling their children that there is a god that loves them so much as to send them to heaven, yet hates others so much as to send them to an eternal hell will we ever stop the violence and bloodshed that such beliefs bring to bear.

You seem proud of the indoctrination you are doing to your child. I wonder if one day you will look back and not be so proud? I say this because as I look back at my childhood, I am not proud of how I felt about others that were not indoctrinated as I was. I literally felt these others deserved hell. Looking back, it seems so evil to think such a thing and I'm not surprised some versions of Christianity now try to steer away from an eternal hell idea.

IMO, we are to be good for goodness sake, not because we are scared to burn in fire for eternity.

Wootah wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:03 am ...
As for children, my child appears to be growing fabulously with the knowledge of Jesus. Growing up an atheist I am quite relieved so far.

"Fabulously".

I cannot square the Jesus, the man I came to know reading Matthew and Mark, with the supernatural Jesus of John or with a doctrine of blaming 'gays' for what appears to be their very natural (to them) physical attractions. Nor can I feel fair or sympathetic denying them the right to the same intimate relationships a man and woman enjoy by telling them to abstain from all sexuality outside of traditional marriage.

To me, Jesus put love, compassion, and understanding ahead of doctrine. This seemed to be his central mission when preaching against the rule bound Pharisees he called hypocrites. Those preaching against 'gay marriage' are clearly on the side of the Pharisees and against Christ. I base this on the impression Jesus makes on me when reading Matthew and Mark. He does not need to be a 'god' to teach love.

I am resolutely heterosexual and confess I had, and perhaps still have some prejudice about homosexuality, but I put that down to my culture and to my misunderstanding and shortcomings. After meeting many gay men, including Christian pastors, I can only see how wrong those prejudices are.

JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:51 pm

Wootah wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:03 am ...
As for children, my child appears to be growing fabulously with the knowledge of Jesus. Growing up an atheist I am quite relieved so far.

"Fabulously".

They seem to live a happy, gay life. I meant.

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

Nature, first and foremost.

Not to say in some cases it is nurture - but one is best to focus on the whole rather than one part of the whole.