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Let's play a game.. you tell me why you don't believe in God, and I will attempt to change your mind!
If you already believe in God + Jesus, we can talk about that, too
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Yay! It'll be fun, lol
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Moderator: Moderators
Agreed. Humans are quite capable of delusion, deception, errors, misunderstandings, etc – in ANY direction on any topic.coffeem8 wrote: So, that works both ways, and is an agreement that delusion is a very real possibility.
My policy is to take someone's word about things that make little or no difference – but to verify what is said about important matters. I'll take anyone's word for what they had for breakfast but not for tales about supernatural entities.coffeem8 wrote: Here I am, taking your words seriously.. Should I take them with a grain of salt instead?
In reasoned and honorable debate personal testimonials are not regarded as proof of anything other than that is what the person claims.coffeem8 wrote: And are you saying that what you have said is irrelevant, because it happened to you, therefore becoming ubelieveable?
People generally seem to trust what "happened to them" – whether they accurately understand what happened or not.coffeem8 wrote: No, you're probably OK with trusting in what happened to you, because you were there, and you know that it happened.
"Deliverance" may be very real (or seem that way) to you (generic term). However, when you attempt to tell or convince others it is nothing but hearsay (that heard from others) or testimonials. Thus, it is a personal matter.coffeem8 wrote: Well I was present when I got deliverance, and not delusional.
That is what is known as a CLAIM. In debate if one's claims are challenged they are expected (and required by Forum Rules) to provide evidence to support the claim. The claim is hereby challenged.coffeem8 wrote: What's more is this: what I'm saying is that JESUS STILL DOES MIRACLES TODAY..
SOME people "need the miracles" (or think they do). Others do not need miracles or supernatural help.coffeem8 wrote: People need the miracles, they need help.
People in general live lives that they consider or describe as being anywhere from wonderful to terrible – reflecting their reaction to circumstances they encounter and decisions they make.coffeem8 wrote: Admittedly some people here on this site seem to have the most wonderful life imaginable,
Referring to the actions of others as being false and disguising hateful attitudes is hateful itself, isn't it? Does "log in one's own eye" apply?coffeem8 wrote: portrayed with a false, fellow human-loving disguise and protected by the most hateful attitudes I have ever had the pleasure of encountering.
Some people in need find "help" through church and prayers. They may recover from illness or injury or may not. Others seek medical attention without church and prayer.coffeem8 wrote: but what about the people who are in need? In church the prayers were like, "Oh Lord, heal such and such, if it be your will. "
I've hear that platitude for many decades and have asked for evidence that it is anything more than imagination or fantasy or wishful thinking. The response is "Take my word for it (or his or this book)."coffeem8 wrote: Of course it's his will!! Have you ever thought about that?
Can the "gift of healing" be SHOWN to be anything more than a baseless claim or story? Anyone who can demonstrate that it works can collect a million dollars (which they can donate to their favorite charity if they choose).coffeem8 wrote: That we were supposed to use the gift of healing on them instead of just saying those types of prayers.
Believers are supposed to "obey the word" – but generally acknowledge that they don't do so consistently. "The word" is meaningless to Non-Believers (who seem to do just as well without that external support and structure).coffeem8 wrote: We were s'posed to obey the word, oc. That's where the breakdown occurred.
Hey Coffee, can we not leave 'scare tactics' to the terrorists? You would think an all wise and all loving god could do better than ISIS.coffeem8 wrote: [Replying to Danmark]
Hey.
Right up front, I warn, turn from your wicked ways- repent! Else hellfire be your eternal dwelling place. Believe in your heart on the son of God, on him that can save your soul, confess him with your mouth and you will be saved.
For the deeds done in darkness are not hidden from him that is hidden from you, and even the earth itself is weary of willing sin.
The sun, earth, and stars will themselves testify against those who continue in sin. Neglecting salvation.
(see, apocolypse of Paul)
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Idolatry, regional powers and principalities, sexual impurity- I've prayed against them, for you, since reading your message. Notice patterns in your area- revisit the notion of free will.
Spiritually, wickedness is being fueled by the allowances of that la-ti-da attitude. When it's done, it will destroy even those who were its vessels. Someone else will warn you soon, also.
Physically, somebody's making big $ from the economy where you are. All's not well, man.
I pray according to God's will. He will answer.
coffeem8 wrote: [Replying to post 51 by Ancient of Years]
Perhaps you are not aware that the parts of a persons brain that light up when discussing their favorite football team for example are the same parts of the brain that light up when discussing their favorite god.The theories you have built are very impressive.
Belief in God, and Jesus/Word of God is simple for me, because I have personally experienced deliverance by the name of Jesus. I get excited about the presence of the Holy Spirit- such cannot be measured with scientific instruments, it is manifested in the form of total peace.
That you get excited about your religion is expected. I'm sure you know some people that get really excited about their favorite sports team too. At least sports teams can be shown to be real though. As far as I'm concerned, your mind is just there doing what minds do. You for some reason are impressed by it though.
Most people agree with you. The stories about a Jesus most likely were written about a person or persons that actually existed.coffeem8 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:48 am [Replying to coffeem8 in post #1]
Good morningmy email said somebody wants to fuss with me about whether Jesus is real, so here I am!! Tag, you're it
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Why should we not discount your story just like you did for Cat Stevens? Is yours to be believed and his rejected?