I've come for you

[coffeem8]

Hey y'all

Let's play a game.. you tell me why you don't believe in God, and I will attempt to change your mind!

If you already believe in God + Jesus, we can talk about that, too

Yay! It'll be fun, lol

[Divine Insight]

@ Divine Insight:

Hey =)

"I was taught that myself, and in the beginning (before I actually studied the Bible for myself) actually believed that nonsense." - by divine insight

* d, I say this for the sake of any who, perhaps, have NOT studied the Bible..

Jeremiah 29:13
And ye shall seek me and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

I did that coffee, and that turned out to be a lie. So this is one of the many reasons why I know the bible is filled with lies.

" On the contrary, the proof that it\'s false is actually given to us by the many disagreeing sects and denominations of this religion. And we can\'t even limit this to only Christianity, we must also recognize that both Judaism and Islam are based on this same folklore. Yet it\'s crystal clear that none of these people can agree on much of anything. Therefore to claim that "God Explains" anything in this religion is absurd, IMHO." - divine insight

IMHO this proves that people like some of the Word but not all of it.

IMHO this proves that one must trust the Word, as opposed to trusting in buildings and billboards.

I found the Bible to be filled with utter nonsense as well as immoral principles. What you don't seem to be understanding here coffee is that if the Bible is genuinely describing an actual "God" verbatim, than this IMHO this "God" is an evil immoral and immature idiot that I could never respect much less love.

And like I say, the proof is in the pudding. What you don't seem to realize is that you also are a "heathen" in the eyes of many versions of this religion. Just as you view those to be heathens who don't agree with your sect of this religion, the people who believe in other sects view you to be the heathen.

So overall this religion has done nothing but turn men against men in the name of an jealous egotistical and highly immoral fictitious Godhead. I see the light. These Abrahamic religions were the creation a culture of male-chauvinistic pigs who used an imaginary God as fodder to justify their religious wars. This is the TRUTH that I have discovered.

So I will confess to one thing, by having studied these Abrahamic religions I was able to find TRUTH. And the truth is that these religions are nothing more than the immoral superstitions of a truly disgusting culture. A culture that I might add would be called the "Taliban" today. Because the Taliban of today are behaving pretty much precisely the way the Bible claims God instructed the ancient Israelites to behave.

Do you support the Taliban as being a model of divine authority?

If not, then I hold that you can't truly support the Bible as being a model of divine authority either.

By the way, you are never going to convince me of anything by simply posting quotes from a book I've already read. The Bible is filled with lies. And I have already proven it time and time again.

"So why did the Biblical God demand blood sacrifices for the atonement of sin?" divine insight

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death...

Genesis 2:17
....for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood....


So di,
Sin= death;
whats the cure for death? Life.

Where is the life? In the blood.
That's why blood offering.. because God gave everyone chance after chance to get back in right standing with him- to this day.

Yes, I've heard this truly lame apology more times that I care to mention. All you're doing here is regurgitating that standard apologetic answers. Answers that don't answer anything.

First off there is a huge problem with the claim that the "wages of sin are death" in Christianity because Jesus clearly did not die a permanent spiritual death. Instead, he was resurrected and given the gift of eternal life. So Christianity cannot claim that Jesus died to pay the wages of sin for anyone since he actually got the reward of saints and even better.

Secondly if the wages of sin is death then sacrificing an innocent animal would hardly pay for sins. The wages of sin would be on the sinner, not on an innocent animals that isn't doesn't even understand the concept of sin.

What you have just done here is verify to me that I am indeed perfectly correct in my conclusions. You haven't offered anything here but precisely what has already brought me to my conclusions. The idea that by killing an innocent animal a man can atone himself of sin because something had died is insane. That, my friend, is precisely the kind of insane superstitions that reveal to us that the Bible is indeed nothing more than absolute nonsense.

Immoral nonsense at that. Killing an innocent animal to free yourself of wrong-doings is about as immoral as you can get. That very act itself would be a highly immoral act.

So this Bible teaches extreme immorality.

" Where in the Bible does it teach parents how to raise children properly? And where is there any detailed instruction on how to deal with difficult or unruly children (other than to stone them to death)." - divine insight

Deuteronomy 4:9
Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them to thy sons, and thy sons' sons;

This doesn't answer my question. My question is how to deal with unruly children who refuse to be taught? This verse assume that all children are teachable.

Psalms 127:3 - Lo, children [are] an heritage of the LORD: [and] the fruit of the womb [is his] reward.

This verse is completely useless and offers nothing on how to deal with unruly children.

Did you even bother to actually read my question?

Proverbs 22:6 - Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

And again, this verse assumes that there are no such thing as unruly children. Yet the Bible itself recognizes that unruly children do indeed exist because it instructs us to stone them to death. Which IMHO is not a divine solution. Even though this does seem to be the Biblical God's answer to just about eveything.

Proverbs 29:17 - Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul.

But it doesn't tell you how to correct unruly children. In only says to stone them to death. So you're not answering my question. Also this verse doesn't even give instructions on the proper way to "correct" a child. What does that mean? Does it mean to beat the child into submission? I think that's illegal in today's day and age. It's also an immoral and unwise solution IMHO. Beating children has been shown to result in people who become violent later in their lives and who also then believe that beating up other people is the way to make them do as they want. This creates wife-beaters.

Proverbs 13:1 - A wise son [heareth] his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.

And so what's the solution? Stone the child to death like the Bible says?

You're not answering my question and neither does the bible.

Proverbs 29:15 - The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame.


The rod? Is this verse once again teaching that beating a child into submission is divine wisdom? I think this just shows that this Bible was written by barbaric immoral idiots who clearly had no clue how to properly raise children. It's no wonder that their culture continued to behave in this barbaric manner for thousands of years.

Deuteronomy Chapter 6

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

So, di, disobeying Gods way brings judgement, and accepting the person of the wicked brings judgement on any who agree with that one. Period.

I agree that this is what this barbaric immoral book claims. That's not in dispute.

It's just that these commandments are not wise. They are the commandments of an insane culture that used an imaginary God to preach their immoral and unwise practices.

There is no wisdom in it. If you were to actually follow these commandments today you would be considered a criminal and potentially thrown in jail for child abuse. We've grown beyond these immoral archaic practices. Or at least some of us have.

You said in an earlier text that non religious people had to live with people who fight holy wars.. this is not correct. The world faces the wrath of God because of neglecting to honor His Word. That brings judgement and war and every human being, every creation is catering to God right now, fitting into his plan, whether for good or evil, whether they like it or not.

IMHO this is superstitious nonsense that is currently causing Holy Wars and civil and political unrest in the world. Following the directives of these ancient religions only pits men against men. The "wrath" that results from this has nothing to do with any God. It's just the wrath of men aimed at other men in the name of their fictitious jealous Gods.

Like I say, having read the Bible has indeed opened my eyes to the TRUTH. These religions are nothing more than egotistical fodder men who love wrath. And so they use this fictitious immoral God to bring wrath upon each other whilst they beat their children into submission. All in the name of God.

" How should a man go about finding a decent dependable mate? And what should he do to convince her to marry him?" - divine insight

Prov.2

[1] My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; [2] So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; [3] Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; [4] If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; [5] Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. [6] For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. [7] He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly. [8] He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints. [9] Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path. [10] When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; [11] Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee: [12] To deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things; [13] Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness; [14] Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked; [15] Whose ways are crooked, and they froward in their paths: [16] To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words; [17] Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God. [18] For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead. [19] None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life. [20] That thou mayest walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous. [21] For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. [22] But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.


About getting her to agree, well, a good woman will agree and answer to a man who has the Word of God as his guide.

So you're saying that all Christian men have found good women who will agree and answer to their misogynistic biblical demands?

I don't think we see this in real life. So once again we see the TRUTH that these superstitions don't pan out.

" Why should anyone trust any advice on how to find a mate that comes from a God who fixed Adam up with a Bimbo like Eve who ended up getting all of humanity in trouble?

I mean, even if the Bible offered advice on how to find a good mate who could trust it if it came from this God? He clearly doesn\'t know anything about how to fix a man up with a good woman."

Isaiah 55:8-9 King James Version (KJV)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

The problem is that according to the Biblical description of this God, this God is not "higher" than anyone. On the contrary, his immorality is beneath many mortal humans that we consider to be criminal.

Like I have already pointed out. That Taliban are about the only society on earth who is actually behaving the way this God had instructed men to behave, and most respectable moral people reject that ways of the Taliban as being basically ignorant, immoral, and downright criminal.

If I were playing the game the way I wanted to, I'd be saying hey, repent.. to know him is to love him!

And that would be absolute nonsense.

Therefore, if this blasphemy is done in ignorance there's still a chance for forgiveness

What? Think about what you just said here very carefully. Why should anyone need to be forgiven for something they are ignorant of?

Do you believe in Jesus?

Did Jesus pray to God when he was being crucified, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"?

Clearly Jesus forgives people for being ignorant. So there's no need for "forgiveness" if a person doesn't truly understand something.

Also, if my picture of the Biblical God is wrong, the clearly I'm not rejecting that Biblical God at all, but instead I'm rejecting a totally WRONG picture of God.

If that's true then God would be extremely pleased with me for rejecting a totally incorrect and false picture of God.

So you see Coffee, even if they exists a truly righteous, all-wise, and loving God, then I have absolutely nothing to fear at all. On the contrary, that's precisely what am arguing for. I reject the Bible because it is unrighteous, unwise, and unloving.

If those are not the traits of "God", then I am indeed praising God by rejecting the Bible that I see as being the opposite of those traits.

So I would have absolutely nothing to "repent". On the contrary I am giving God the highest possible praise by rejecting an ignorant immoral mythology that makes God out to be an extremely immoral idiot.

So if a truly righteous God exists my destiny to Seventh Heaven is guaranteed.

Only those who have supported an immoral and unwise God by preaching the Bible would be in trouble. For they would have been insulting God to the highest.

Rejecting Hebrew mythology is the best thing you can do if you want to show respect for any genuinely wise and righteous God.

[OnceConvinced]

@ Divine Insight:

Hey =)

"I was taught that myself, and in the beginning (before I actually studied the Bible for myself) actually believed that nonsense." - by divine insight

* d, I say this for the sake of any who, perhaps, have NOT studied the Bible..

Jeremiah 29:13
And ye shall seek me and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

I did that coffee, and that turned out to be a lie. So this is one of the many reasons why I know the bible is filled with lies.

This was the same for me. Actually I was taken in for around 30 years believing it to be true. Now Christians are continually telling me I was never a true Christian to begin with, but yet I earnestly served God with all my heart.

The scripture is quite clearly a lie. It's part of my 100 reasons I am no longer a believer. I'll put that as number 2 on my list of 100 reasons I no longer belief, ie, the bible contains many lies.

I'll even add some of my other reasons I no longer believe that kind of relate to this one:

Reasons 2-13 Why I no longer believe

2) the bible contains blatant lies.
3) the bible contains many broken promises
4) the bible contains many contradictions
5) the bible contains a lot of inaccurate science
6) the bible contains many unfulfilled prophecies.
7) the bible contains many absurd stories that cannot possibly be true
8) the bible illustrates a God with horrible morals which I just can't possibly believe would exist.
9) the bible is full of attrocities committed by this God
10) the bible can be used to defend any crazy belief you want.
11) the bible contains much out of touch and sometimes bad advice.
12) the bible seems way too much like the word of ignorant man that the word of God
13) the bible needs a branch of defence known as "apologetics" to justify it and cover up the above list of things.

[Divine Insight]

OnceConvinced, I agree with everything on your list, but specifically #'s 8, 12, and 13.

8) the bible illustrates a God with horrible morals which I just can't possibly believe would exist.

This is actually my number 1 reason for rejecting the Bible. Not only do I disagree with the morality of God depicted in the Bible, but IMHO the ways in which this God attempts to deal with problems are extremely unintelligent (downright stupid if I may be permitted to honestly express my feelings).

There's just no way that the God portrayed in the Bible represents anything even remotely close to "supreme intelligence". It's not even close enough to be in question. So this is without a doubt my greatest reason for rejecting the Bible.

12) the bible seems way too much like the word of ignorant man that the word of God

I did this as well.

Take a sheet of paper with two columns. At the top of one column write the heading "Things an Infinitely Wise Intelligent God might do or say".

At the top of the second column write the heading, "Things I would expect male-chauvinistic, bigoted, jealous and ignorant men to do or say".

Then pick up the Bible and start reading it from the very beginning. As you read periodically mark down on this paper which column you believe the scriptures best represent.

When I do this, I end up with a piece of paper that contains many items in the column marked "Things I would expect male-chauvinistic, bigoted, jealous and ignorant men to do or say", and very few items in the column marked, "Things an Infinitely Wise Intelligent God might do or say". And I'm probably being very generous to even include anything in that column because there's really very little if anything that actually looks "Infinitely Intelligent" to me in the Bible.

Some things simply don't appear to be utterly stupid, so they end up by default in the column marked "Things an Infinitely Wise Intelligent God might do or say". But they don't truly represent infinite wisdom, they just don't appear to be as stupid as the rest of the stuff.

Actually an even better way to do this would be to make three columns. Add a middle column with the heading "Mediocre stuff that isn't exactly stupid or wise, just mundanely sane".

If this center column is added I would probably never have any reason to ever write anything int the columned marked, "Things an Infinitely Wise Intelligent God might do or say"

13) the bible needs a branch of defence known as "apologetics" to justify it and cover up the above list of things.

I agree, this is truly an indication that these scriptures themselves are pretty darn pathetic on their own. A lot of people claim that the Bible is "The Greatest Piece of Literature Ever Written".

Well, duh? If it's all that great then why do people constantly need to be apologizing for it?

Clearly it's not all that great. And the proof is in "apologetics".

If it were great, there would be no need for apologetics.

[Anarchist]

Just wondering but is this discussion concerned only with the Christian G-d, or is it concerned with the existence of G-d in any form. If the later I would love to partake in discussion and hear others thoughts for I have a strong belief in G-d but not in the Christian G-d.

[coffeem8]

Been thinking of you lately, Divine Insight-so, I thought I'd drop in and say hello... Hello

Since we last spoke, I have thought very carefully about the best way to convince you of the goodness and rightness of God, through Jesus.

So, I think the best way would be to test him.

Would you be willing to challenge God, like, make some request, and later honestly testify of the outcome?

[OnceConvinced]

Deut 6: 16

“You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah.

Matt 4:5-7

Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you,’ and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’� Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’�

[coffeem8]

[Replying to OnceConvinced]

the correct word for those verses is "tempt," not "test"/ strong's concordance

..and wonderfully so, lest every prayer request be some attempt to tempt the Lord

[ttruscott]

In Genesis Chapter 1:21 it says, "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

So I guess your first challenge is to explain to me why God created animals that eat each other, and each others babies, and thought that this was "good"?

Reminds me of Emerson's quote about those who hang on to a single thought to describe a problem. The answer this question seeks is not able to be given because the premise is wrong but since the answer is not given, the premise is repeated over and over and over...

The good that is mentioned in these early chapter can in no way mean "morally good", since it includes by this time the morally depraved, eternally evil, demons. The creation was GOOD FOR HIS PURPOSES, the redemption of HIS sinful elect.

To begin with why did God allow an evil serpent into the Garden of Eden in the first place? Think

We have...the thinking has been done and recorded and written down here many times and what good has it done us?

My favourite explanation includes the question about their nakedness.

Thirdly, if being naked is evil, then why were Adam and Eve naked to begin with?

IMCO:
They were naked at their earthly start (not their creation) as a symbol for their fallen, that is, sinful nature. They were not created sinful or in the garden but chose by their free will to rebel against GOD's plan for them before the earth was created since it was created to be the prison for all sinners with a rehab centre in it for HIS sinful elect. The problem was that they were not ashamed of being naked, that is, they rejected the idea that their choice to befriend the serpent was evil but instead was actually loving. They knew GOD thought he was evil but they thought they could love him out of it against GOD's call for them to judge him.

Thus the serpent was allowed into the garden with them as their friend and mentor until he convinced Eve to eat. When she shared the 'fruit' with Adam they had their eyes opened, that is, they suddenly realized that they had just broken a command of their GOD so they must be evil and GOD was right all along. It was a setup for them to learn and accept their evil natures, their nakedness before their GOD, and when they saw how wrong they had been they were finally ashamed.

That no one is justified by the law means that the law was only given so when a sinner could not keep it, it would prove to that sinner, open his eyes to his sin, that he was indeed a guilty sinner in need of a saviour. [Verses available of course for nakedness symbolizing sin and for the use of the law to convict us of sin.]

The other great gift of this event in their long lives was that they also had their eyes opened to the evil of the serpent that he would sell out his friends this way. When the time comes for them to stand with GOD to judge the serpent, they will not have any trouble with this as they first did...he already talked them into eating themselves out of one paradise.

Secondly how in the world could Adam or Eve have recognize that the serpent was lying to them if they had no knowledge of good and evil, and lying is evil?

It is indeed a sad truth of being sinful that one is blind to spiritual truths and values. This inability to perceive his danger to them and GOD's unwillingness to warn them is a social proof that HE wanted the serpent to expose his evil to them by seducing them, (as HE also sucked both Pharaoh and Satan to expose their evil to Moses and Job and, vicariously, to us). Since it is impossible for a GOD who is loving and holy to treat any innocent person this way it is proof that they were indeed naked as a symbol for sin. The fact that being naked (unclothed) with your spouse in your own garden is NOT a sin proves the nakedness referred to when their eyes were opened to their sin could not have been a state of unclothedness because unclothedness has no sin value, only nakedness used as a metaphor for evil does.

Because they were naked since their arrival in the garden it is another implication that they sinned pre-earth and their arrival here was not their creation but they were sown/moved here already naked/sinful as the parable of the good seed tells us which also ends, "Whoever has ears, let them hear."

[coffeem8]

Hey, every/anybody

In order to test the power of God, and prove the existing and life giving need of Jesus, I have commanded in the name of Jesus, I bind every evil sprit, including the strongman, working in anyone who comes on this site, whose purpose is to cause one to believe in the existence of unknown time, I command you to manifest, and make yourself known to any individual you are deceiving, until or unless they repent.

I come against the spirit of Antichrist, and all its helpers great and small-i bind you in the name of Jesus- I loose confusion on all your camp, and I command you to manifest your inadequacy of explanation and action, until or unless they repent.

In the name of Jesus, I cancel all powers in operation within the words on this site that are against truth, as truth known to any but God.

I break all word curses spoken or thought against any person, and return them to the sender now. I bind every evil spirit that enforces the curses and command them to leave them now.

Blood of Jesus on every evil spirit, continually until you either loose the people or stop your assignments.

Grief, heaviness, disappointment, go in the name of Jesus!

Infirmity go!

Mind binding spirits cease now!

In the name of Jesus, and for three days, let every one who visits this site be mentally unaffected by any mind altering spirits, including pharmakia.

Lord God, I ask you to send us dreams and visions that explain to us where we have erred, and your glory.

And just for fun, I command every spirit that causes people to believe in evolution to manifest in the form of the beast that believer has chosen as ancestor.

I forbid any evil spirit to pervert my intentions in the eyes, minds, or ears of any human who reads or hears. Amen.

[Danmark]

And just for fun, I command every spirit that causes people to believe in evolution to manifest in the form of the beast that believer has chosen as ancestor.

Facts, not spirits, cause people to believe in evolution, gravity, the speed of light and other facts of science and reality. The wonder I feel as I walk thru a redwood forest or enjoy camping by a stream or contemplate the seemingly limitless beauty and majesty of the universe and being grateful for the experience is undiminished by the acceptance it all came about without a guiding personality. In fact, my appreciation of it is, if anything, enhanced that acceptance.

I'm grateful and joyful for reality and beauty of this life, this world, this universe and the wonderful people within it. This gratitude and wonder I feel, WE feel, is not dependant on someone claiming "God did it." Nor is this appreciation and joy of life in anyway affected by anyone's prayer or command.