An Appology

[Trump]

Hello to all my Debating friends whom I dearly missed.

A few months ago I got an e-mail from Debating Christianity and Religion and was able to get on as a guest (which I couldn't do after being banned), then tried to log on hoping this was my chance to get back on after being banned, but arian was taken, so I created Trump, was able to get on, and here I am.

First, I did not 'sneak back in', my name Odon Sabo, my IP address, my home address everything is the same, as is my desire to know God, and our Lord Jesus Christ better is.

After Clownboat called me out on who I am, and I told him, I got a PM from our Leader and friend Otseng noting that since I was banned, it broke forum rules to be allowed back in. I replied that it was my sincere wish to be allowed back on the Forum, at which he told me I should post here and make a sincere, and honest apology to my Moderators, and fellow Debaters, and see what you all think?

I will bow to no one, bad back, but I will get on my knees and ask you all to forgive me for being nothing less than barbaric in my debates with you all, and there is absolutely no excuse for such animalistic behavior (could use evolution as an excuse, but I won't).

I have since then read some of my responses and it truly sickened me, I sounded anything but Christ-like or civil and when I thought of the question: "What Would Jesus Do?", I'd say he probably would of pushed the Pharisees aside, and cast the first stone himself, which I would have deserved, yet knowing better, here I am on my knees before you all.

Since being gone, I have visited a few other Debating Forums, and seen what little or no Moderation can do to a Forum. But what I missed is you all, yes you;
from Otseng, the list goes on; JoeyK whom I dearly missed as I did; Z, McCulloch, Divine Insight, JW, Wyvern, Tired of the Nonsense, H.sapiens, liamconnor, onewithhim, Clownboat (I know, I know), KenRU, Furrowed Brow, ThePainfulTruth, and already like some of the Newbies like Dr.NoGods, servant and the rest whom I just had the pleasure debating with on "Question about the Earth" interesting topic.

I realized what a goldmine this Forum is, but because I was brought up as a Christian, to defend my faith without evidence, and as unschooled as I was, I did just that, not realizing that atheists were being more Christ-like than I was.

So I ask you all to consider my plea to stay on this Awesome Forum, and I'm not saying this to bribe anyone, but you'll think that too once you've been out there, and intelligence (yes, I know what intelligence is, why do you think I want to stay here, I want some more of that to rub off on me) is rare, and hard to come by, and must be respected and cherished.

So, what do you say?

Oh, and I know I insulted some of you here pretty badly, so here is your chance to test me if I'm genuine or not? Quote some of those comments of mine that offended you, let me see it and give me a chance to respond to it, or explain why I said what I said, whether from stupidity, ignorance, or simply defending my blind faith, my religion because I could not stand loosing to an unbeliever, or all of the above?

Thanks

arian AKA Trump

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 40 by Elijah John]

Honestly, I think his behavior in this thread is indicative of both his behavior in the past, and how he will act in the future: with blatant strawman, arguments dripping with martyrdom and persecution complexes, and completely disassociated from the dialogue. Long rants that lead off to several red herrings, insinuations that make it seem like his opponents are an almost inhumanly evil group rather than perfectly normal people, and worst of all, complete lack of interest in learning why his arguments are wrong; for example, in all the time he has been here, he has been resistant to any and all explanations of what evolutionary theory actually is.

I don't think anyone except those wanting to pad their echo chambers with like-minded conspiratorial attitudes would be able to see his behavior on this thread alone as warranting a "second chance." We can see for ourselves what he brings to the forum, and I am very... disgusted? Disappointed? Dis-something, to be sure.

[Trump]

[Replying to post 40 by Elijah John]

Honestly, I think his behavior in this thread is indicative of both his behavior in the past, and how he will act in the future: with blatant strawman, arguments dripping with martyrdom and persecution complexes, and completely disassociated from the dialogue. Long rants that lead off to several red herrings, insinuations that make it seem like his opponents are an almost inhumanly evil group rather than perfectly normal people, and worst of all, complete lack of interest in learning why his arguments are wrong; for example, in all the time he has been here, he has been resistant to any and all explanations of what evolutionary theory actually is.

I don't think anyone except those wanting to pad their echo chambers with like-minded conspiratorial attitudes would be able to see his behavior on this thread alone as warranting a "second chance." We can see for ourselves what he brings to the forum, and I am very... disgusted? Disappointed? Dis-something, to be sure.

You said: "blatant strawman, arguments dripping with martyrdom and persecution complexes, and completely disassociated from the dialogue. Long rants that lead off to several red herrings, .. and I am very... disgusted? Disappointed? Dis-something, to be sure" yeah, Dis-something, really, sounds very much like an emotional childish outrage, even a personal attack rather than something I, nor anyone could debate. Read most of the responses to me so far, personal attack after personal attack, except for a few "normal" still holding on to some form of logic left in the world.

Like your "evolution" belief for instance, look how you "demand" that I accept it rather than you defend it with real science? You can't, so "off with his head".

It's OK, you will be safe again, .. looks like Otseng made his decision to Ban me, so just like that "Happy Atheist Forum" I was a good member on some years back, favored by the Members but hated by the Moderators because the happy atheists woke up and realized why they were happy, because of their religion, patting each other on the back, they got so angry where I even had e-mail threats from them, and was banned despite many posts praising my "interesting views", so here too I leave you to your little Happy theist/atheist, .. not Debating, but "Defending Religion Forum"

I made my apology, do you honestly think I would give up all the truth that I have come upon, all the evidence that I came across especially the scientific evidence of God our Creator, and our Flat Earth?

Anyways, except for a few here, I can truly say: "I have outgrown you", .. and I'm sure that is the biggest reason for getting rid of me ASAP, because you BB-Evolutionists know now that with the F.E. truths, you really have absolutely no real evidence left to back up your grave robbing, "skull&bones" worshipping anti-God religion. I pray the Lord leave this comment seared into your brain, so every time you defend your pitiful religion, using skulls and bones as your evidence for evolution, and CGI and artist rendered Sci-Fi pictures for your imaginary planets and aliens, people will just laugh inside, that even those patting you on your back will snicker.

But still, I pray to our Lord Jesus Christ that he would help open your eyes, and be man enough to debate your religious beliefs as I have, and face the stark reality.
Take care of yourself Neatras! And remember, I love you, and best of all, God loves you.

[Trump]

[Replying to post 35 by Trump]

What about Katy Perry, .. I can show you interviews with a lot of other "Stars", singers, actors etc. who openly confess both with their lips, and what they wear, act etc. (tattoos, necklaces, hand signals, ..) their allegiance to Lucifer/Satan/Devil.

Are you making the same leap as you did with Bob Dylan? Do they wear things that could have all kinds of meanings (or perhaps no meaning at all) and then insisting that they must be Satanists?
If I see someone wearing a Stormtrooper costume from Star Wars, is the ONLY meaning that they MUST be Stormtroopers, loyal to Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine?

No, they are obviously Star Wars nerds, just as people with baphomet tattoos, necklaces, dark-clothing showing baphomet signs and not singing, but screaming into microphones are Satanists, or are rooting for Satan.

Also, if you can show me where in the rule book we are not allowed to debate any topic that "you" or anyone else finds offensive, or labels "conspiracy theory"?

There is no rule. However, users are at liberty to ignore those whom they want to ignore. I got tired of seeing your posts, so I blocked you and left you alone.

There you go, see how easy that was?

By all means, show me evidence that the name 'Lucifer' could refer to Jesus or Mary, any evidence from dictionary definitions, videos, lectures, sermons, whatever? .. it's called debating.

Shifting the burden of proof. You just hear this word "lucifer" and immediately assume it MUST mean the fallen angel. I'm going to assume that you never once considered that the word can be used in other contexts, such as a bishop having that name
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Add to dictionary

Are you starting to understand the problem you're having?

Lucifer Calaritanus (Italian: Lucifero da Cagliari) (d. May 20, 370 or 371) was a bishop of Cagliari in Sardinia known for his passionate opposition to Arianism. He is venerated as a Saint in Sardinia, though his status remains controversial.

He defended the Catholic Trinity Doctrine that makes God, His son Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit deities who rule from the supernatural realm, .. turned them into demons.
In other words, he was a Luciferian Jesuit, the same ones that painted the streets of Europe RED with the Blood of the Saints, those early Believers who opposed to accepting Jesus as the Catholic "sun-god."
The name was not an accident, just as the Vatican built telescope named LUCIFER run by the Jesuits here on Mt. Graham AZ is not by accident.

So what, .. if I mention the Kennedy assassination, that automatically marks me as a "Tin-foil hat wearing Conspiracy Theorist"?

If you start talking about things that you insist are true based upon little to no information. If let's say, you insist that the Roman Catholic Church are Satan worshippers because in a prayer they use the word "lucifer"...ya know, something like that.

I've done my research, the sermon is far from the actual reason I know the Pope is a Luciferian, even he admits it.
if you guys would have allowed me to stay, I would have gladly shared all that information with you in civil and friendly debate.

But yes, if a subject comes up in a debate that you find offensive, you don't have to comment on it, but you cannot demand that I shouldn't.

Which I have not done. I have not said anything like "Trump/Arian, you should not talk about X".

I'm being banned, so my friend, unless you defend my staying, my being banned proves that this Forum has no tolerance for Truthers, especially those that confess the One True God instead of like you shown above, the Trinitarian, Catholic/Jesuit created three-gods-in-one.
Remember what my name was before? "arian", just as that Lucifer Priest was against, "Arianism", and just as those Jesuits did to the early Believers, I too am before the Religious Fanatics to be beheaded: "Off with his head"!

But, .. I'm still ahead, the Yes to me staying is more than the naysayers!?!?
Where are the Believers, or the honest Debaters who don't take debates personally?
My neck is in the guillotine people, .. my executioner is about to pull the rope!!!

But what it seems to me is that you (like others here) want to keep me from commenting on specific topics because you know my views will be very different than the generally accepted view, .. which automatically labels me a conspiracy theorist.

No, it's because your past behaviour was incredibly rude, insulting, racist (I think I remember more than one screed from you that was racist against Jews, although I admit here I could be wrong on that, so if I am, I apologize) and your conclusions did not match the 'evidence' you brought in support.

I mean come on buddy, what is the evidence for the Evolutions claim of "speciation"? What, that we have African Pigmies, or Aborigines that look very much like apes? Or that apes look a little like us humans??
I have shown the real reason for Evolution theory, and I know that triggered the white-hate against me for doing it.

How about this?

All my old posts are still here, why don't my accusers take the ones that they feel that deserved a warning, pull it out and we dabate it?
I "dare them?"
But nooo, .. they would never dare to bring up those past Warnings, why?
Because we are never to argue the Moderators. So in my final plea, I plead to Caesar (Otseng) to allow my accusers to bring up the Posts that they feel justified a Warning, and lets debate it??

I know many good Debaters on this Forum who got sick of the unjust Moderation and left, and keep checking back waiting for some flicker of hope of an improvement. When I realized I was able to come back on, I honestly thought this may be that flicker of hope!?

So what should I do, like on a topic: "Is there any being more evil than God"?

That sounds like a good topic to explore, yes. You could tally up all the violent destructive acts God does as mentioned in the Bible and talk about it.

YES, ... YES, .. and YES, .. as you said my friend, "talk about it, debate it"!
The Title didn't offend me a bit, I welcome such topics, it is healthy for a Forum full of intelligent people like we have here.

But what did offend me is that the accusations were not from a Biblical perspective, but from a religious perspective! From what the "Christian Religion" teaches, NOT what the Bible says.
And this would of been great, that is what the title of this Forum is: "Debating Christianity" and all it's claims, "and Religion" and all their claims against the Bible and science!

But since science has been taken over by religion (The Big Bang was invented by the Jesuits, George Lemaitre to be exact, and so was putting globes into schools) so both the BB- and Evolution has a very religious background, which this is the place we should debate it; "Debating Christianity and Religion" against the truth found in the Bible, and in scientific observation.

My response should be: "I agree, .. but thinking that the Earth is Flat just because it looks flat is even more stupid and unscientific!" and any deviation from what the Title suggests should receive a Warning!?

It is not that a response to a thread disagrees with an OP that is the problem. That is the very nature of a debate site. Responses are SUPPOSED to disagree with original posts.
In your flat earth thread, you never once gave information to support flat earth. You tossed out pretty much all of science. I even gave you a suggestion that should be easy for you to do: get a film camera and take a picture of the edge of the world, to show that Earth is a flat Earth.
Why is it you have not done this, if not for the reason that flat earth is not true?

The Earth is much, much, much bigger than we have been made to believe, and I gave you the interview with Admiral Byrd and what he seen with his own eyes. That should have given you enough info to go on.
second, .. why would there be a World Wide treaty to keep people from exploring Antarctica?
So again, you requested ONE thing from me which would prove to you that the Earth is flat: "a picture of the edge", right?
Would that really prove the Earth is Flat? Does all the artist rendered and CGI pictures of planets, and New Worlds NASA keeps putting out for sci-fi fans prove that the stars (which I seen with my own eyes with my 10 inch Celestron Telescope) are really planets?

I also gave a video that gives 200 reasons why the Earth is flat by Eric Dubay, did you see that? Or you too will request that I go and take a picture of the edge?
NASA took in Trillions of dollars to build their story on, and their budget is about 10 billion a month, mine is $1,600 a month, .. but sure, if I come across spmeone going to the edge, I will hitch a ride and try to get that for you, OK?

Is that it, .. that I should stay with the generally accepted view of the topic

Nope. No-one here is saying that. Look at the number of times we atheists disagree with the original post from a theist.

What we are asking is that if you create a topic, is that you support it with evidence. My suggestion for your flat earth thread is that you get a camera. Should be simple to do.

Sure, simple, and for the evidence of God, what? Bring him in chains and make Him kneel before you to prove He exists?
That's what they claim was written on the wall in a German - Jewish concentration camp cell:
"If there is a God,
He will have to beg for my forgiveness!"

Is this "Debating Christianity and Religion Forum", .. OR "Defending Christianity and all other Religions Ideas, Cults Forum"? .. just asking?

Why would you ask ME, an atheist, whether this is a "Defending Christianity" forum? I'd have no interest if it was that.

I can show you how theism/atheism are two sides of the same coin: "Religion" but of course, I would have to do that after I am banned, .. that should be easy too, right?

Take care Rikuoamero!

[Trump]

[Replying to post 36 by Trump]

1. No speaking of Flat Earth

Wrong. Not that you must not speak of a Flat Earth period. It's that if you defend a Flat Earth, you must support it with evidence.

Well of course, yes sir, otherwise I'd get three warnings for the same response.

Question, can I use the same type of evidence that is provided for the Big Bang theory and all the planets, and for the Evolution theory for all the animals speciating??

If debating the JW's must agree that there is no hell, or there is no "weeping and gnashing, or any torment in hell", that hell is simply death.

I'd like to know where you think this suggestion came from. I debate JWs all the time, and not once have I ever had to agree to this.

I'm asking, or is that off limits too now?

No hinting on the Catholic/Christian Religions actual origins (No mentioning that Constantine was a gentile multi-god worshipping pagan who invented Christianity).

Same as above. This is a point that I and other of the atheists have raised before, so I don't know why you think you're being forbidden from doing the same?

You guys are theists and atheist and I'm a Believer in the real, scientifically proven Creator. I am forbidden a lot of things, so I was just asking?

Never assume such tin-foil-hat wearing idiocy like that our Government could be hiding things from us, or "could even imagine conspiring against its own population"!

Ditto.

Yes sir, I will now cleanse myself of all the evidence contrary.

No mention of one of the greatest catastrophe that hit the US: "9-11" other than the already accepted story that our dear President George Bush, and Dick Cheney , the CIA, the FBI already explained: "Two planes downed three modern buildings by turning them into powder"

Maybe because it has no relevance to Christianity?

What?
What army attacked Iraq, was it a Muslim army, a Buddhist army, or a Christian army from a Christian Country?

No mentioning the word "Jew", or you are antiemetic

I say the word Jew all the time here on these forums. Why do you think you are being forbidden from doing so?

Ooohh, you said it! So before I answer, I'll just wait to see you get hit by a Warning.

Oh wait, .. no you won't, you're an atheist, which is today synonymous with "Jew" as I've shown evidence of in that Jewish Forum here that I was banned from.

[Neatras]

Having gotten his parting shots in, I can say with total confidence that I am content with my vote.

[Trump]

Odon, I appreciate your earnestness and humility, but before I cast my vote please answer this question.

Why does it seem you are determined to think (and state) the worst of others, in this case the Pope and the RCC?

Why the insinuations and accusations that the Pope worships Lucifer (Satan) and that the RCC perpetuates devil worship, when there are far more probable and reasonable explanations available?

Do you honestly think that Pope Francis worships Satan (Lucifer)?

Of course, and I am NOT trying to insult anyone here, but yes; that Pope Francis worships Satan (Lucifer). Do you watch EWTN, or listen to Catholic "Immaculate Heart Radio", they are not even hiding it anymore, did you watch Mass after mass, and pictures of the special skull and bones Vatican rooms, .. I have given countless clips from all different sources, of which most are Catholic, .. you didn't watch them did you?

THAT is what I mean by "demonization" in this case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuvfsM4F9jo

This video, .. now am I demonizing the people in this video? Or don't they themselves admit to it?

Do you have any clue as to how unfair, inaccurate and offensive that accusation is to many, many Catholics?

So pointing out the truth in the Religion that innocent, unaware people have been lured into is unfair? Most don't even know who they worship, after revealing this to some of my relatives, they were speechless, and some admitted that they somehow feel this is true.

So I'm just being a Trump(et) revealing this, just as I was "arian" as in Arius, "Arianism" revealing the truth about the Trinity Doctrine.

We can debate this more deeper some other time E.J. and I wouldn't want you to vote against you beliefs, not until you change them with evidence. Evidence that has some substance, saying I demonize the Devil is not going to deter me from speaking out.
Prove to me, .. show me how I am wrong, since many of my families eternal destiny depend on it. If you do, I'll be the first one to relieve their conscience. I'll run and tell them "You know, Lucifer really isn't that bad, actually he is a very nice being (like more and more movies are doing just that. This last "Noah" was a perfect example.)

Just as I had suspected. I had hoped I was wrong, but in light of this anti-Catholic invective, I cannot support your reinstatement.

Thankfully for you, it is not entirely up to me, so...stay tuned.

Ah yes, who said this is a Debating Forum, right? You are not only holding me to Strict Forum Rules, but your own Rules too, including watching me if I offend others by simply debating their Religious beliefs.

Why, and I ask you again, WHY is the Catholic Religion and the Pope off limits to scrutiny, why is the Pope "undebatable"?? Catholics talk about the Pope and the Church all the time, and not all in a good way either, so what is it with you and the Catholic Religion? Were you offended when all those Catholics brought charges of child molestations against the Catholic Clergy? Wasn't that anti-Catholic invective also?
We're not in Church E.J., it would be different if we were and here I was pointing out church history.

Maybe it's all because I keep thinking this is the "Debating Christianity and Religion" Forum where we "Debate" Christianity!? And Catholic is synonymous with Christian, is it not?

I don't see Otseng saying anywhere: "Debating Christianity, .. as long as you don't bring up its origins, and mention its gods!"

Man friend, for somebody that shares the exact same birthdate, year, month and day you sure have a lot against me! Why?

I believe that is why we debate, because neither side accepts the others version of "evidence". If we did, this Forum be the most boring Forum on the Internet, almost as bad as that "Happy Atheist Forum" I told you guys about. All they did was tell each other how stupid the Bible was, how Jesus never existed, how evil God was by bringing up Bible quotes and posting them completely out of context and having everyone agreeing.
All atheists, and they all agreed on every anti-God comment made. At first I thought I was on a Christian Forum?
I'm facing that same confusion with this Forum?

[Trump]

Also, if you can show me where in the rule book we are not allowed to debate any topic that "you" or anyone else finds offensive, or labels "conspiracy theory"? I keep getting this "conspiracy theory" label a lot, does anyone here believe that conspiracies don't exist?

So what, .. if I mention the Kennedy assassination, that automatically marks me as a "Tin-foil hat wearing Conspiracy Theorist"?
"Flat Earth, .."
"Oh no, he is a conspiracy theorist

I do not see it so much on this forum, but on TV and in real life people will disqualify many things as "conspiracy theory" as if there is no such thing, and that troubles me.

Hillary C said that there was a "vast right wing conspiracy" and she was ridiculed from sea to shining sea for saying that.

And it is well known today that the Democratic Party had their conspiracy to make Hillary as the new President and their conspiracy simply failed.

Every group has a conspiracy to take command and it would not be much of a group if it did not have its own conspiracy theory.

Every Church wants to take over the entire world, and that is the point of preaching and evangelizing - to convert the entire world.

So I agree with "Trump" that to not allow or to condemn any conspiracy theory is a show of hypocrisy.

Thank you JP, .. I appreciate the support.

[Trump]

Odon, I have a question for you. If you honestly think the Pope worships Satan, why do you suppose that "fact" has not made international news? CNN, FOX and MSNBC? The BBC?

Ok friend, shoot, why is it not all over CNN, FOX, MSNBC the BBC?

Who says it's not? From the opening scenes to the end, it's there in your face, it's there subliminally, it's there in the children's morning show, it's there all day for housewives, and for the husband who come home from work, for you, who ignored all the evidence I provided to say what you just said is an insult to me. You know it, Moderators know it, and if there was anyone here that would not have known it, looks they have been banned a long time ago.

Most rational people, after all, believe that the Pope worships God and not Satan.

There are two kinds of people in this world, the sheeple, and the gods, the rulers like yourself, whom Lucifer gave all his power to for the time being.

Me, .. I am no longer of this world, only my body is still here.

There will be one more debate my friend, from which you cannot ban me, and as sure as there is a hell, I will be there to hear your arguments for God's Son Jesus Christ.
And yes, both Elijah and John will be there too, and we'll see how they feel anout you using their name in this matter!?

Again, you have set up several straw men in your "apology" thread. NO ONE is saying the RCC cannot be criticized on this debating web site. Fair criticism is one thing, but offensive, inflammatory and delusional conspiracy theories are quite another.

Yes, I agree, except for the "theory part" which is why I was pointing out all the offensive, inflammatory and delusional conspiracies, hoping to wake someone here up? But I see you guys got rid of all the normal people.

It is one thing to call a religion "wrong" and to explain why you think this is so, quite another to call it "evil". (and yes, saying that Catholicism "worships Lucifer/Satan" is akin to calling it evil)

OK, so what else would you call "evil"? What, call it good? This is exactly what you, the almighty-one is doing. Here I leave you with this warning, you and all your cohorts on this Forum:

Isaiah 5:20 (KJV)
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

So please, stop misrepresenting your opponents arguments. (for example, I NEVER argued that "Lucifer was a good guy".)

You don't have to say it, it pours from your comments, Jesuit.

I wanted to find out who exactly was it that got me banned the first time, .. now I know. May the Lord reward you accordingly.

Oh I know, you guys LAUGH in the face of God, right? Well, all I can tell you is; better enjoy yourself for the little time you have oh prophet Elijah!

And don't worry, your JW friends have taken away Gods power to punish, so there is no hell, which means you can continue to "Do As Thou Wilt"

[rikuoamero]

Ooooookaaaay....having read trumps latest responses it looks like he hasn't learned. The persecution complexes, the insults, the name calling (I'm a Jew?)...

[Elijah John]

Ah yes, who said this is a Debating Forum, right? You are not only holding me to Strict Forum Rules, but your own Rules too, including watching me if I offend others by simply debating their Religious beliefs.

Why, and I ask you again, WHY is the Catholic Religion and the Pope off limits to scrutiny, why is the Pope "undebatable"?? Catholics talk about the Pope and the Church all the time, and not all in a good way either, so what is it with you and the Catholic Religion?

But you are not simply debating or critiquing, you are demonizing and misrepresenting.

Again, (and again) you misrepresent my position. I NEVER said criticizing the RCC or any other denomination or religion is off limits...I said calling other religions evil (saying the Pope worships Satan, etc) IS off limits.

You still don't seem to grasp the difference and that is very troubling. For that reason, and because you continue to misrepresent your opponents positions, I oppose your reinstatement.