Relationships among believers and non-believers

[ItsJustMe]

I don't know where to place this topic, so general it is. I have recently been dealing with a break up of 2 years. I am still in the early stages of grief over it. So, in order to cope and help move on, I need to talk about it.

I live in the so called "bible belt" of the US. There is a strong history of Christianity here, and most of the populous are believers. I...am not(though I have deep and long history being a christian up until my mid 20's). And around here, I am finding it to my disadvantage.

Anyway, I met this beautiful, wonderful girl at work that I became friends with. I was interested in her but I knew that God was part of her life and who she was, just not to what extent. So, early on I put it out there with great clarity, that I was not a christian, but not only that, but why I wasn't(which might have been a mistake, in hindsight). She immediately said "no, that was a no compromise situation." Sadly, I understood.

So, we agreed to stay friends but continued to become closer and closer as we related so well with each other. Eventually, within months of meeting, we hung out outside of work. The least I can say is, we fell deeply and madly in love with each other. We both confessed that this was the most pleasant, easy, passionate, effortless, ecstasy filling relationship we had ever been in. We never had one fight, besides the usual banter over innocuous, meaningless things like who sang what song, what color something should be, etc..which google quickly resolved most of the time, lol.

As the relationship grew and blossomed, though we never met any moral dilemmas(well maybe sex before marriage, but we compromised on that) we discovered some of the difficulties of not being matched in the spiritual realm; her life long friends didn't approve, her parents never knew, etc... I made many compromises as she is the one I loved so much that I literally would do anything for her. I started going to church with her. In spite of that, I learned in the end, she never felt she could truly share that part of her life with me. I suppose she wanted me to take the initiative on that in retrospect.

Then one day, I witnessed "the straw that broke the camel's back". She was watching a Youtube video of this young, beautiful, trendy couple's wedding video. She began softly weeping, as I could hear the words of the video I knew exactly why she was weeping. The young woman in the video, crying, lovingly stated "I am so blessed that God gave me such a wonderful man" and the young man states the same. I look at her lying at the opposite end of the couch, our legs tangled, and ask her "what is the matter babe?" And we both immediately know, and many more tears came. Not much was said after that, I began to gather my belongings that were permanent fixtures of her house. It was a very sad and difficult day.

It has been a few months since then, but we have talked almost everyday since. We are like powerful earth magnets that even larger distances could not keep us apart, and the closer we get, the stronger the force becomes. But, she has made up her mind and there is no chance of us continuing to be together without my change of heart. She says that she prays for me daily and if or when I do have that change of heart, that we can be together.

Needless to say, with all that I know, I am still so confused and hurt. Why was I fooled into thinking that something like this could work? I mean, this was the truest love that books, movies, and songs are written about. But sadly, love does not prevail in this story. I was convinced that love was the greatest and most powerful force on earth, with fear coming in at a close second. But I think the inverse may be the truth, as fear overcame love in this story.

From what I have observed, the fear of the REAL things in life, like telling her parents, convincing her friends that it is okay, not feeling silly about praying or studying her bible, raising kids not knowing how I would influence them, getting married in a church, etc.. were the impetus of our break up, not her faith in God. The reason I say this is that, I would consider her a "moderate christian" which back in the day, we would call them a lukewarm christian, just as damned to hell as the next non believer. She is tolerant of many modern culture norms, like responsible social drinking, consuming media regardless of content, occasionally swearing. God was never central in any decisions made, that I could tell anyway. She said that she cared less about that part of her life while being with me. She grew away from God. And so, I cant make any sense of this. And I imagine I will continue to have difficulties in the relationship world because of this very thing. What to do!

[Divine Insight]

It's a sad story to be sure. Unfortunately based on what you've said thus far it doesn't sound like the relationship is salvageable unless you were to become a serious and sincere believer. However, if that's simply not possible for you, then attempting to pretend to play that role would be a disaster. In that case you would end up living a lie and that's not good.

It's impossible to say for certain in any given relationship. I only said the above based on the story you just told in the OP. It just sounds like this particular woman is simply too involved with her religious beliefs.

Having said this, it's certainly possible for believers and non-believers to marry and live a happy life together. But this all depends on the people involved. In my extended family two of my uncles were atheists. They both married Christian women. They both attended church services to respect their wive's beliefs. However, they made no secret about their disbelief, and everyone in the church was aware that these two men were non-believers. But it is also true that in this particular church they were accepted as non-believers and no one tried to convert them.

It might be informative to know also that most of my other uncles (i.e. the brothers of these atheists) were Christians, and a few of them were even Christian pastors. I'm not sure if that might have played a role in how the atheists uncles were accepted?

In any case, I feel a need to express the following just because it's true. The two uncles who were atheists were unanimously recognized as the brightest brothers of the bunch. Even the Christian Pastors would not argue with that.

This combination of believers and non-believers made for some quite interesting after-dinner chats. The preachers and the non-believers would often discuss why they believe and disbelieve. Surprisingly their conversations were always quite civil and intelligent. Neither side was ever able to change the views of the others. They are all dead now, and the believers died believing, whilst the non-believers died not believing.

But the marriages between the Atheists and their Christian wives never seemed to be problematic. Especially not over religious beliefs. There were no divorces in our extended family and no sign of any serious problems. If there were any serious problem in private, they were a very well-kept secret.

Finally, perhaps I should mention that these particular Christian women were not "Jesus Freaks". They fairly liberal Free Methodists, and never gave any impression that they were "married to Jesus" or anything that extreme.

I think they were the kind of Christians who just wanted to try to do the right thing the best they could. They probably felt that God would see the good in their husbands. Perhaps they even personally believed that belief in Jesus isn't ultimately necessary? I don't really know precisely what they might have believed. But they didn't seem to have any problem with their husbands being atheists.

Based on what you've stated in the OP though it doesn't sound like the same situation. The girl you describe sounds like her belief in God (or Jesus) is extremely profound to her. I don't think my aunts had strong feelings like that. They probably just figured that if a person lives a good life pretty much as Jesus had suggested that would be good enough. My atheist uncles were clearly good men. So they didn't show any signs of being serious "sinners". I suppose that helped.

~~~~~~~

While we're on this topic it might help to mention my mother. My mother was a very dedicated believer as well. When I came to the realization that I could no longer believe in the religion this did not bother her at all. In fact, she would often say, "It's not important because God knows you're a good person". So apparently that was the perspective my aunts probably had with their husbands as well.

I say it like this: They had enough faith in God to believe that God can recognize a good person. They most likely simply could not imagine their "loving God" being cruel or mean to their husbands when their husbands were clearly such decent men.

After all, what kind of a God would be so mean as to condemn decent men?

I imagine this is what these women were thinking. They just had faith that God can see a "good guy" and wouldn't be mean to him without just cause.

That would be my guess.

They could see that their husbands were decent men. There was no question about that. So perhaps that's what made it work?

[otseng]

[Replying to post 1 by ItsJustMe]

Thanks for sharing.

I agree with DI that unless you're willing to become a Christian, the marriage will not work out. It might last a few years, but in the back of her mind, she'll be wondering what if she had married a godly man instead?

I believe family, friends, and relative support is important in a marriage, esp if the couple intends on staying together until death does them apart. Without external support of a marriage, it's difficult for two people to keep a relationship together. If two people decide to marry and their parents are against it, the church is against it, and there's no other external support, chances are low the marriage will last too long, regardless how much the couple loves each other.

Out of curiosity, why did you decide to leave Christianity?

[Divine Insight]

Out of curiosity, why did you decide to leave Christianity?

I certainly can't speak for ItsJustMe, but I have noticed at least one thing we have in common.

I...am not(though I have deep and long history being a christian up until my mid 20's)

That was my situation as well. And the problem I have with a question like, "Why did you decide to leave Christianity?" is that it actually misses the point in my case. This is because it really wasn't a "decision", it was a "realization". I simply came to the realization that the religion could not be true as described by the Bible. At that point there is no longer any "choice" left. Unless pretense could be considered a choice. How can you continue to believe in something that no longer appears to be believable?

Like I say, this may not be the reason ItsJustMe left the religion, but if it was, then it wasn't a "choice", you simply can't choose to continue to "believe" in something that you no longer believe. That's no longer a viable choice.

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

I had much the same experience as DI. I started as a Christian and after looking more closely at what it was that I was supposed to be believing, I could no longer believe it. I didn't really decide to stop believing, I simply just didn't believe it anymore. Coming to this site and debating various issues only further cemented my disbelief. It seems no two people of faith could even supply the same answers, never mind convincing answers on many topics.

As for the OP, my marriage is an example of one that is working fine even though I'm no longer a believer. I'm of the opinion that an open, honest dialogue between spouses is far more important that what anyone outside the marriage thinks. I don't give two hoots what the church, parents, friends, etc think about our situation. The marriage is between my wife and I and we get to decide whether it works or not. Giving up on a marriage because someone outside the relationship doesn't like it is a weak excuse in my not so humble opinion.

[OnceConvinced]

Declaring yourself as a non-Christian from the word go was definitely the right thing to do. It was not a mistake and pretending to be a Christian to keep your woman will only take you so far I think. She will most likely see through it after a while. Like DI said, it would be living a lie and you don't want to do that. You'd probably be fine for a while, but then you'll just have enough of playing the game and then that might have just made matters work. Glad you chose the honest approach, despite the complications.

I voted maybe, because it's a really tough one. It all really depends on how staunch your lady is. She and her family most likely take the scripture about not being unequally yoked very seriously. I know I did as a Christian and as soon as I found out a woman I liked was definitely not a Christian, I quickly flagged her away as a possible partner.

I have mixed thoughts about your situation. One thought is she has compromised before so why not again? One question I have is just how happy is she in her relationship with you? If she is still starry eyed and in love with you, then I figure no matter how strong her faith, she'll stick with you, no matter what the bible says or what her family says. (I have seen this all my life with Christians) If she really wants you, she will find ways to make the bible line up with her desires. However if the sheen has well and truly worn off your relationship, then she is more likely to stick with her faith than she will with you. She is not going to work so hard to justify sticking with you. She will be less likely to go against the wishes of her family.

From my point of view, there is no holy spirit trying to guide her or lead her along the right path, so it's always going to come down to what she truly desires the most. What is more important to her? Her religion or you?

I guess only you will really have a good idea about that.

[Bust Nak]

It's working for me, coming up to 9 years of marriage plus 3 more before that now. My spose is very pious, and conservative politically when it comes to things like same sex marriage, abortion and so on; but oddly liberal in terms of her theology i.e. who goes to heaven, so that helps. We argued over religion a couple of times only in all these years, and I learn to keep away from such topic in the future.

[OnceConvinced]

It's working for me, coming up to 9 years of marriage plus 3 more before that now. My spose is very pious, and conservative politically when it comes to things like same sex marriage, abortion and so on; but oddly liberal in terms of her theology i.e. who goes to heaven, so that helps. We argued over religion a couple of times only in all these years, and I learn to keep away from such topic in the future.

My previous partner was a Christian and couldn't handle it when I took the opposing viewpoint over a discussion relating to religion. She'd go mental when her beliefs were threatened, rather than discussing things rationally, so we just quit talking about religion.

We eventually broke up but it wasn't due to her being a Christian and me being an atheist, but other issues.

But yeah, it is possible to co-exist in a relationship without having the same religious beliefs.

[William]

The thing I find interesting about your relationship is that it appears first and foremost to be a friendship.

In that sense, if it truly is a friendship, and a true friendship at that, then it won't matter a darn what happens in relation to choices you both make.

The thing which makes it a friendship rather than a true friendship is that she has expectations on you, based on her own expectation on herself related to how she believes GODs expectations of her are.

Even in that, one can obviously have a great friendly relationship so nothing lost there. The idea is for you to extract yourself emotionally from that particular aspect of the relationship. Allow her the space she requires to find her prince charming and be there for her as a friend, regardless.

In the mean time, allow for yourself the possibility that you will find another who compliments you in the exact same way but without the reservations and expectations. Doing so will allow for that opportunity to be a potential. Not doing so by clinging to this emotional period of heartache and regret effectively shuts the door on any other, better, more synergistic potential happening with another person.

It is hard to let go...but I think it won't be so hard if you continue to value the friendship between you both and respect it solely as a friendship.

Indeed, the best relationships are friendships, so it pays to invest in a relationship as a friendship at the go get - and work on the friendship... that is the best foundation to build.