Atheist Devin P. Kelley massacres 26 religious people?

[Aetixintro]

Here we are. 26 churchgoers are now dead due to a crazy guy who liked Atheism on Facebook. Thus Devin (Devil?) P. Kelley has been an Atheist?

How much of an Atheist is he there in the Bible belt of USA? Why did they delete his Facebook profile?

And Atheism does indeed deny commonplace ethics/morality. Find your own, they say!

From media, some words on his person: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/texas ... er-n817806

"He was very sick in the head," Katy Landry, a former girlfriend of Devin Patrick Kelley, told NBC News.

Now! Here we have a perpetrator! Here we have an Atheist! What should we believe about Atheism? This is my question.

[bluethread]

Atheism has nothing to do with morals. It's simply a disbelief in God.

Atheism does have something to do with morals in cases like this where Christianity declares = "Thou shalt not murder" ~ and the Atheist response is that there is no God.

Religion says - do not murder 26 people - and then Atheism says there is no God and thereby religion is a fraud and so the commandment is null and void.

Atheism has no right to claim that they are just silent to the morality when religion is condemning the 26 murders.

That is to have no backbone - and to claim that Atheism has some unspoken morality is to have no morality at all.

No, you are equating atheism with nihilism or fatalism. Not all atheists are nihilists or fatalists. Also, some theists are nihilists or fatalists. In fact, not all nihilists or fatalists are indifferent toward murder. People are rarely 100% consistent. Most have mixed philosophies.

[William]

Here we are. 26 churchgoers are now dead due to a crazy guy who liked Atheism on Facebook. Thus Devin (Devil?) P. Kelley has been an Atheist?

How much of an Atheist is he there in the Bible belt of USA? Why did they delete his Facebook profile?

And Atheism does indeed deny commonplace ethics/morality. Find your own, they say!

From media, some words on his person: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/texas ... er-n817806

"He was very sick in the head," Katy Landry, a former girlfriend of Devin Patrick Kelley, told NBC News.

Now! Here we have a perpetrator! Here we have an Atheist! What should we believe about Atheism? This is my question.

I think the whole argument regarding atheism or theism being reasons for ethics/morality or lack thereof is bogus.

Human beings have been evolving their understanding of ethics/morality from both positional platforms.

Just because sometimes a person self identifying as being 'atheist' or 'theist' behaves in a grossly unethical or immoral manner, does not mean that the fault is in the position. Both positions are known to harbor such individuals who do behave in such a manner, but since the generic sorting of position is either/or and there is no other position, and because both good and evil actions come from human beings, when they do, one cannot simply point and say "There ya go! The offender (or non offender) was and 'atheist' or a 'theist'."

The actions of an individual are not related to the position they claim to support.

[JP Cusick]

The actions of an individual are not related to the position they claim to support.

I agree with this - and I just hope that Atheist can see the injustice of doing that.

Atheist are the biggest accusers against religion in this world - so hopefully the Atheist can see from their own tactic being thrown back at them.

As like the claim that Christians did the crusades and they did the Inquisition and therefore Jesus is not true and Christianity is a fraud and the entire religion must be ended.

Some Muslims did "bad" things so all of their religion is evil.

Christians did this and Christians did that - and so Atheism must be the right way.

Atheism has unjustly been throwing this kind of accusations at religion and now hopefully it is more easy to see the injustice when it gets thrown back onto them.

[William]

[Replying to post 23 by JP Cusick]

Atheism has unjustly been throwing this kind of accusations at religion...

Organised Religion has had its moments where the accusation is just, because it has been the vessel for organised atrocity, in the name of GOD.

I was specific in using the word 'theism' not 'religion'.

When I said "The actions of an individual are not related to the position they claim to support." I was specifically focusing on theism and atheism as positions in relation to the OP and individual action.

The sub-set of organisations which exist - whether based on atheist or theist beliefs, are created through the actions of groups of individuals, and it is through these organisations where unethical or immoral principles are established and legalized and given the authority to be used as acceptable.

[OnceConvinced]

Atheism has nothing to do with morals. It's simply a disbelief in God.

Atheism does have something to do with morals in cases like this where Christianity declares = "Thou shalt not murder" ~ and the Atheist response is that there is no God.

Which Atheist? Certainly not me. I don't murder people, because I have empathy and compassion. I would not want to be murdered, nor would I want someone I care about murdered. Thus I deem murder to be wrong. Even as a Christian I thought the same thing.

Unlike a theist, I do not need God to tell me that murder is wrong. Do you?

Religion says - do not murder 26 people - and then Atheism says there is no God and thereby religion is a fraud and so the commandment is null and void.

Atheism says absolutely nothing about murder. If one is an atheist and has no problem murdering someone, that that is a problem with them and their morals. It is a problem with them and a lack of empathy and compassion. It's not because they are an atheist.

An atheist does not need a God to stop them from doing evil acts. Do you?

Atheism has no right to claim that they are just silent to the morality when religion is condemning the 26 murders.

Atheists have just as much responsibility when it comes to ensuring this world runs smoothly as anybody else. Is anyone saying otherwise?

As far as I can see Atheists are just as angry when people are murdered as theists are. I certainly am.

and to claim that Atheism has some unspoken morality is to have no morality at all.

I am an atheist with very staunch morals. I do not need any God to stop me from doing evil. However I am one atheist. Every atheist has their own view on what is right or wrong. There is no atheist code to be followed. Just because one is atheist does not mean they don't care about morals and about being decent to one another.

JP, I was brought up in a Christian home. I was taught all atheists were evil, god hating people, but what a total load of nonsense that turned out to be. I actually went for many years believing I'd never met an atheist because no one I knew was ever that horrible. Why are you attempting to demonise atheists?

[OnceConvinced]

Religion does tell its people not to murder, so religion does have that morality.

Really?

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12)
Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17)
Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)
Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27)
Death for Hitting parents (Exodus 21:15)
Death for Cursing Parents (Proverbs 20:20, (Leviticus 20:9)
Death for Adultery (Leviticus 20:10)
Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9)
Death to Followers of Other Religions (Exodus 22:19, Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
Kill Nonbelievers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
Kill False Prophets (Zechariah 13:3, Deuteronomy 13:1-5)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21) – which would include the majority of Christian women these days.
Death for Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:10-16)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath' (Exodus 31:12-15)
Kill Sons of Sinners (Isaiah 14:21)

Silence is a wonderful virtue in many ways - but not when it is time to speak up for right, and to speak against wrong doing.

Which atheists are remaining silent?

[OnceConvinced]

The actions of an individual are not related to the position they claim to support.

I agree with this - and I just hope that Atheist can see the injustice of doing that.

Atheist are the biggest accusers against religion in this world -

Weren't you just accusing atheists of being silent?

As like the claim that Christians did the crusades and they did the Inquisition and therefore Jesus is not true and Christianity is a fraud and the entire religion must be ended.

Some Muslims did "bad" things so all of their religion is evil.

Christians did this and Christians did that - and so Atheism must be the right way.


Atheism has unjustly been throwing this kind of accusations at religion

Unjustly? Are you for real?

Christianity have brought this upon themselves. You complain about Athiests being silent. Why aren't Christians policing themselves and preventing these atrocities among their own brethren? Oh no, all they do is wash their hands of them and say "oh they weren't true Christians. They're not part of us".

and now hopefully it is more easy to see the injustice when it gets thrown back onto them.

Exactly what injustice has been done by atheists here? The one we are talking about here was done by a bible study teacher.

[William]

[Replying to post 25 by OnceConvinced]

Unlike a theist, I do not need God to tell me that murder is wrong.

I am a theist and I can say that GOD has something to do with my thinking murder is wrong, and so too does the law and so to do the majority of citizen I am surrounded by.

Like you, I don't murder people, because I have empathy and compassion as well as those other influences mentioned above.

Maybe I was born with a natural lean towards empathy and compassion, I don't know. When I think about how I did things as a child, compared with most other children I encountered, I was less inclined to want to hurt others, animals, insects, etc...and wanted to get on with other kids - it was a rough neighborhood...so I can't really say for certain but it appears to me that I was born with those tendencies and on the odd time that I did break from that tendency I felt bad about my actions - and back then I also sometimes had to break the general rules of the 'way things were done' in the neighborhood among the kids and suffer the consequences of doing so - but I felt good about myself anyway - bucking that system as it were.

I think we are rather fortunate to be living in these more enlightened times where laws - either secular or religious are not as harsh in relation to making it okay to kill others who are regarded as different (therefore potentially dangerous) and I think that killing in the name of GOD is a terrible thing to do.

The irony is that I can sit here in today's world and write that knowing that I am able to do so because a past allowed for killing and stealing etc in the name of GOD and that past helped to shape the present.

Like when I think about the Romans. They over all others helped create the world we now live in - we come from a dark, dark background and whether atheist of theist, some of us want to bring a little light into the world. Some would say it is a waste of time, but like I say - I think I was born this way and cannot see myself being a supporter of darkness.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 26 by OnceConvinced]

I note the following:

Why do you list the conditions for getting sentenced to death as if we live 2000 years ago?

This isn't acceptable and you should know it (therefore you are...). The Christianity is of the modern World, 2017 (CE), and likely to be both modern and moderate and where Mosaic Laws are obsolete as well as ALL those points on your list because felons are due to trial and not killed directly in any case (I think you know what I mean - Killers may thus receive the death sentence in being a sinner etc.).

It seems that much of the text written in opposition to religion above is therefore of the unreasonable kind, often argued by a hostile/uncharitable interpretation of the Bible and understanding of the modern Christian life.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 26 by OnceConvinced]

I note the following:

Why do you list the conditions for getting sentenced to death as if we live 2000 years ago?

This isn't acceptable and you should know it (therefore you are...). The Christianity is of the modern World, 2017 (CE), and likely to be both modern and moderate and where Mosaic Laws are obsolete as well as ALL those points on your list because felons are due to trial and not killed directly in any case (I think you know what I mean - Killers may thus receive the death sentence in being a sinner etc.).

It seems that much of the text written in opposition to religion above is therefore of the unreasonable kind, often argued by a hostile/uncharitable interpretation of the Bible and understanding of the modern Christian life.

But wait a minute:

The modern world in 2017 is not based on Christian theocracy. The USA in particular is a secular democracy. So our laws are secular laws, not Biblical laws.

Moreover, there are actually Christians who would rather change the USA into a Christian theocracy. Just look at Judge Roy Moore in Alabama. If he gets his way it will be legal to execute gays and possibly all non-Christians as well. In fact, Judge Roy Moore (the upstanding example of Christianity) may very well push to have everything OnceConvinced listed from the Christian Bible into Law once he becomes a member of the USA theocracy that he is hoping to establish.

Judge Roy Moore will be glad to Stand up for Jesus and Christianity in the USA.

And apparently a majority of "upstanding" Christian Alabamians are more than willing to support Moore as their state representative.

So we'll have to wait until the USA becomes a Christian theocracy with the likes of Judge Roy Moore before we can say what kind of laws Christian Theocracy will implement.