Why Does God Allow Suffering?

[Pipiripi]

This is the BIG question on many people minds today, and it is one that keeps many in the world for accepting Christ Jesus for their saviour. I came across to some debate and I have read different answered for a person here, who are so sad that God allows sin. This is for you my friend.

How did sin and suffering begin.
Although no-one can give an definitive reason as to why sin could arise in perfect universe. We can give an explanation as to HOW and WHERE it begin. We don't know the why,but we know the how. One thing that we can confirm, from what the Bible says, is that sin did NOT come from God. So let's look a little farther.

Ezekiel 28:13-15. (read it) These verses is talking about LUCIFER, the most exalted angel in the heavenly kingdom. And if you can see, when God create him, he was a perfect being. So the question is, If God didn't created sin and evil, the how did Lucifer end up being evil? Because of His own FREE WILL CHOICE to go against God heavenly government. God didn't create a bunch of robot to serve Him.

I hope till here is enough for us to see that, because of our own choice we will end up in heaven or Hell.

[Divine Insight]

Is just like now, you are free to be a Christian. Nobody is forcing you.

I also have no rational reason to join this religion.

You don't understand the Bible, because you see things with a worldly eyes.

If that's true then that can only be the fault of Jesus and Yahweh for not making their religious dogma more convincing.

If the Bible is a lie! Why Moore than a half of this world is Christians?

Christians don't even agree on what Christianity means. So even they are in grave disagreement with each other.

Moreover there are actually far more Muslims in the world today, especially Muslims who believe the same things. Islam isn't nearly as divided against itself as Christianity is.

Christian means follow Jesus. We believed and see things to come. We have hope, because dead is not the end for us TRUE Christians.

Now you are just revealing why you chose to believe in this religion. Apparently you found the promise of eternal life irresistible. But actually there are many religions that offer eternal life. In fact, I can't think of any that don't.

I'm gonna say something to you. Just think carefully. If there was NO God, and I died and there was nothing, what did I loose? Absolute nothing. And if there was a God, I have lost everything. So the conclusion, is it better for me to BELIEVED in God!!!

And if Allah is God you've lost everything. So you're gambling on Christianity.

I don't see where that's such a great gamble.

And besides, you need to believe in a pretty hateful God to think that this God would condemn people for such a petty thing as not believing in these outrageous immoral tales of ancient Gods.

Even Jesus supposedly being crucified as part of "God's Plan" for your salvation would be an extremely immoral principle.

So you need to believe in an extremely immoral God to believe in this religion. And a God that is so hateful that he'll condemn people for simply not believing outrageous nonsense.

I don't see where you have given this any serious thought at all actually.

[Divine Insight]

but you forget God's Judgment is Life man's judgment is otherwise, and did God make it that way sure it is that way isn't it? just because a person is told to not jump in front of that beer truck doesn't make the person warning him evil. and that's what you are trying to say here.


a fool isn't a fool because he's in the dark, a fool becomes a fool because he refuses the Light.

hence A&E refused to trust the Light (Word of God)

So are you trying to suggest that to not believe in ancient fables about angry jealous God's is equivalent to jumping out in front of a beer truck?

The whole problem with the religion that you are attempting to defend is that it requires an extremely hateful God who would condemn people for merely rejecting absurdly immoral ancient fables.

Moreover, if you don't believe in Allah and Islam and that turns out to be true, then by believing in Christianity you are the one who is foolishly jumping out in front of the beer truck.

You see, your reasoning makes absolutely no sense at all.

[Divine Insight]

My friend this is a belief, forget about God a moment. What about all those miracles, and all those spiritual things around us. The magicians, go on you tube and see with what power they do all this. The only way for you to get answers to your questions is look the opposite of it. At that moment you begin to look the opposite of your thinking, you can see why.

Miracles on YouTube?

You've got to be kidding me?

[Pipiripi]

Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

There you have it!

An open confession by the Bible that its God creates evil.

So much for trying to pin the blame of evil on humans.

I rest my case.

My friend evil doesn't means the devil. Your problems is that you dont understand nothing even if you see it. Just talking with an mind who can see just there. Just accusing God for everything. You have your own will for choice. You don't have a God. So if you see your existence it is nothing. You don't have a begining and an End. The conclusion of your existence is nothing. So I'm writhing to nothing, and nothing is reading. Now I'm writhing to something. Something that has a begining and an end in this world. They are Christians, they have a mighty God. They will live forever. And they know what I'm writhing here. Okay nothing's do you have understand a little why we Christians are the most? Because we have hope. But nothing have nothings.

[Divine Insight]

Your problems is that you dont understand nothing even if you see it.

If that were true and I had been created by a God then no one could be held responsible for that but the God that created me.

So you're just digging yourself deeper into an abyss of self-contradictions.

Proclaiming that people who don't buy into your favorite religious myths simply "don't understand" requires that your God is inept. So you are just verifying that your religion is necessarily false.

[Pipiripi]

Your problems is that you dont understand nothing even if you see it.

If that were true and I had been created by a God then no one could be held responsible for that but the God that created me.

So you're just digging yourself deeper into an abyss of self-contradictions.

Proclaiming that people who don't buy into your favorite religious myths simply "don't understand" requires that your God is inept. So you are just verifying that your religion is necessarily false.

For you all religions are false because you don't believe in God. Whatever you write is against our God. So if you don't have a God stop judging Christians God. Don't you see that any Christians don't take you as a bad person!! Why? Because they loved you and hope someday your eyes will open, so you can find love. We Christians are suffering more then anybody in this world. Why? Because we cannot obligate people to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. And we see many of our own family perished because they have ignore Jesus Christ. That's the reason aslong you stay here, and read everyday everything that is talking here. Just pray my friend. WHERE THREE OR MORE UNITED IN MY NAME, THERE I AM BETWEEN THEM. So you know now something more about TRUE Christians.

[Divine Insight]

For you all religions are false because you don't believe in God.

Where did you ever come up with that idea? You clearly didn't ask me, because if you had, that's not the answer you would have gotten.

Whatever you write is against our God.

Who is "our"? Are you claiming to speak for some group of people?

So if you don't have a God stop judging Christians God.

I don't recall "judging" Christians at all. So where do you come up with that?

Apparently you have a very wild imagination.

Don't you see that any Christians don't take you as a bad person!! Why? Because they loved you and hope someday your eyes will open, so you can find love.

Excuse me? Now you seem to be judging me to be "without love".

That's a pretty nasty accusation to making toward anyone don't you think?

We Christians are suffering more then anybody in this world.

Hogwash.

Why? Because we cannot obligate people to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Why should that bother you? Shouldn't you let Jesus worry about who he can convince and who he can't convince?

And we see many of our own family perished because they have ignore Jesus Christ.

So? Let's assume that this is true. If it is true then this is what Jesus Christ himself has decided to do.

So are you going to argue with what Jesus Christ chooses to do?

If you respect Jesus Christ, and he chooses to condemn someone then you should be happy with his behavior. If you aren't then you should question why you bother to respect him at all.

That's the reason aslong you stay here, and read everyday everything that is talking here. Just pray my friend. WHERE THREE OR MORE UNITED IN MY NAME, THERE I AM BETWEEN THEM. So you know now something more about TRUE Christians.

I originally came to this forum in the hopes of bringing religious fanatics to their senses, but I confess that it's been a totally futile endeavor. Religious fanatics are apparently determined to spread their hateful fanaticism throughout the world.

And yes it is a hateful fanaticism. After all, look at how it has you accusing me of being "without love". That is a deeply hateful thing to accuse anyone of.

Have I accused you of being without love? Hardly.

So as long as you continue to spew hateful accusations and insinuations toward other people in the name of Jesus Christ, you're not going to impress me with your hateful religion.

I've met people from other religions who are far more loving.

You could learn a lot from them.

[OnceConvinced]

The traffic light is green, you are standing there for cross the street. The traffic is hot. You have your free choice to choose. Are you going to cross the street? Is just like now, you are free to be a Christian.

Actually it's not as simple as that. For the traffic light analogy to work you have to have an invisible traffic light that can't be seen. We can't see it, thus we cannot say this traffic light is there and we can also not see if the colours are changing. So how can we make a decision to stop or go if we can't even see the light?

Likewise with God, if we can't see the light how can we make a choice to worship him?

Nobody is forcing you.

But there is certainly a threat there. If we don't, then we will be thrown into Hell.

You don't understand the Bible, because you see things with a worldly eyes.

Nobody can show that they have a correct understanding of the bible, not even you. Just hang around on this site for a while and you'll see that even Christians, who claim to have the holy spirit in them can't agree on the correct interpretation of the bible.

The bible is a book of multi choice. You can choose to take it anyway you like and be able to back up your beliefs with verses. We see that here on this site with many of the Christians here, who often come out with some crazy stuff.

Divine Insight, like myself, prefers to take the bible at face value. We take it for what it actually says in plain English. We don't try to twist and turn it to mean something else.

If the Bible is a lie! Why Moore than a half of this world is Christians?

How many of these people are true Christians? How many of them practise it? How many people tick it on their census papers because their family background is Christian?

Do you include the millions of Mormans, Jehoavah's Witnesses, SDAs, Catholics, Amish and all those many cults and sects as true Christians?

To try to say that the large percentage of the world is Christian, is not honest, because I'm sure that you like most Christians would strike the majority of those off the list as true Christians and claim they lack understanding.

By the way, you are completely wrong with those figures. Only 33% claim to be Christians. That's a minority. That means 67% are not Christians, so you should in fact be saying, using your logic, "If the Bible is a true! Why more than a half of this world is not Christian?"

By your logic, the fact that more than half the world are not Christian should be proof that the bible is wrong, not right!

Nevertheless, you should be aware that appealing to popularity is in fact a logical fallacy in debate.

See:
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... Popularity

Christian means follow Jesus.

Do you really believe that the 33% of the world's people who claim to be Christians are really following Jesus?

We believed and see things to come. We have hope,

A futile hope as far as I can see. But hey, if it works for you!

because dead is not the end for us TRUE Christians.

So many Christians claim, with absolutely 0 proof that it's true. In fact what we see in reality is when Christians die, that's it. Their bodies stay dead. If you want to talk about something imaginary like the soul, then that can't be proven to exist either.

How many of the world's 33% are true Christians and what makes you think you're part of that very small minority?

I'm gonna say something to you. Just think carefully. If there was NO God, and I died and there was nothing, what did I loose? Absolute nothing. And if there was a God, I have lost everything. So the conclusion, is it better for me to BELIEVED in God!!!

Whoa, stop right there. That is the very flawed Pascal's Wager.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

It is an extremely bad reason to believe. What if you've chosen the wrong God? What if you're angering the real god? What if Allah is the real god? You have chosen Jesus, which will enrage Allah, the one true God.

And what if you gamble on Jesus, but don't do the Father's will correctly?

There are many other reasons why Pascal's Wager is so flawed. It really is a terrible reason to believe in a god. I hope you can see now how it's a really bad reason to believe in a god. Remember there are thousands of them that have been worshipped by humans over the centuries. They could be more real than your one.

What about all those miracles, and all those spiritual things around us.

What people claim as miracles can't be shown to be miracles. In fact many of them seem to have natural causes. eg healing of cancer happens due to remission, not because of magic.

As for spiritual things I see no strong evidence of anything spiritual in this world.

The magicians, go on you tube and see with what power they do all this.

Do you really believe that Magicians do real magic? Sorry my friend, but they are simple tricks. You have been fooled by them. But in this day and age there is no excuse for being fooled by magicians. Watch your videos then google how the trick is done and you will find out it's not really magic at all. Watch shows like Penn and Teller who show you how the tricks are done.

[otseng]

Your problems is that you dont understand nothing even if you see it.

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[OnceConvinced]

For you all religions are false because you don't believe in God.

There are over 4000 religions on this planet. How many of them do you believe are false? A rough percentage perhaps?

We Christians are suffering more then anybody in this world.

[

I personally don't believe that at all. From what I can see in most countries they have it sweet. From what I can see it's more likely it's going to be atheists that are persecuted.

Where are you from, Pipiripi? Your user name seems to be maybe Maori or Polynesian.

Why? Because we cannot obligate people to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

That should not be surprising when it comes to educated people.

And we see many of our own family perished because they have ignore Jesus Christ.

People die. It's a natural process. Are you trying to claim that there are some family members of yours that are no longer with us and haven't perish? If so how do you know this? Even if we go by the bible, how do you know those family members were true Christians? Or how do we know that it wasn't Allah they ran into after death and they are now burning alongside all those other people who rejected Allah?

(I really am hoping you see the folly of Pascal's Wager by now)

Just pray my friend.

Why should anyone pray when they have found out prayer doesn't work? I know for both DI and I that we tried praying. We prayed a huge amount at various times during our lives. For me is was over 40 years of praying even after I lost my Christian faith. It was completely futile.

So you know now something more about TRUE Christians.

Actually we don't. All we have is your spin on it. So far the Christian members on this site have not been able to agree what makes a true Christian.

In fact here is a list I have been compiling of what makes a true Christian based on what members here say. So far it's only the Jehovah's Witnesses that seem to be in agreement: (Perhaps they are the true Christians?)

Must follow the teachings of Christ (Elijah John, Onewithhim, JehovahsWitness, AmericanDeist)
Must believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for mankind. (Vanguard, Onewithhim)
Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316, JehovahsWitness, Onewithhim)
Must repent of your sins to God. (Yahu, JLB32168, Volbrigade)
Must preach the same things Jesus preaches. (Dropship, Onewithhim)
Must not commit the same sins over and over (Faithful One, Onewithhim)
Must recognise Jehovah as the true god (JehovahsWitness, Onewithim)
Must have no doubts (Faithful One)
Must be anointed with the holy spirit. (Tam)
Must be someone that everybody likes (Dropship)
Must not dance to the world's tune (Dropship)
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim)
Must do the father’s will (Onewithhim)
There is nothing we can do. It’s all up to God (ttruscott)
Must have a spirit of constant repentance (JLB32168)
Must obey God’s commandments (1213)